The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.
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I haven't watched a single down of Kenneth Murray, LB, OU until now. I'm 17 seconds into the first game of his that I found (vs Texas). Think I might already love this kid.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
I'm half way through the Texas game.
Murray will end up being the best looking LB in this class before it's all over IMHO. I really haven't even had much time to go through the backers and watch them save for Harrison. But he just jumps off the screen, it's incredibly difficult to NOT notice him. Everyone screaming about Simmons, but Murray might be THE will linebacker of this group.
edit: Almost forgot, when I'm taking a break from Murray, I'm watching Tega-Wanogho, LT from Auburn. Not sure if you've had a chance to watch him yet...?
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I haven't watched a single down of Kenneth Murray, LB, OU until now. I'm 17 seconds into the first game of his that I found (vs Texas). Think I might already love this kid.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
Murray was the only ILB taken in round one of our Mock Draft: #23; Queen taken Rd. 2. #34
I took Harrison for the Browns in Rd. 3 at #74.
So, maybe we were right on collectively with those guys?
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
that's a bad as$ dawg, i don't want to see anywhere in the AFCN..strong pad level hands, with good reach, that will break your hands off.. does watching Timmy Jernigan come to mind?
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that's a bad as$ dawg, i don't want to see anywhere in the AFCN..strong pad level hands, with good reach, that will break your hands off.. does watching Timmy Jernigan come to mind?
I'm not entirely sure if it's just any one player that comes to mind. He isn't very tall, but he has a great first step and he has boxer like hands. To me that's Aaron Donald. Natural leverage created by height (lack of) and a strong base with quick feet. But he's a bit thicker, 3bills. Maybe 305ish? He has a decent wing span, but he doesn't have such a great one that I would walk him out over a guard every down. So I could see some Timmy J there. He's basically a gap shooting 1tech in an odd front base, then you just kick him around as you see fit. But his burst, violence and pad level give centers and guards fits to their interior shoulder. Almost like a smaller Akiem Hicks?
An interesting, but very fun watch.
edit: Right team, wrong player. A smaller Eddie Goldman.
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
4 year starter at OU. Recruited by every major college program.
i know It came down to OU and Ohio State. I know OSU was disappointed when they didn’t land him
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
True, but the LB still has to cash in the IDL's effort.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
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Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
Heard about that kid. He's on the long list of watching I need to keep working on. I hear the work "technician" thrown around, and I'm a fan of that word.
But I just got done watching every snap of Kinlaw vs UNC. Dude ends up on the ground.... a lot.
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
Barth looks nasty too. He may stack up with the top guys when all is said and done. I don’t think any of the tackles are elite. I really have a hard time chasing good Olineman in the top 10 just because you need one. I want a Joe Thomas or a Tony Boselli in that range.
also Some of these small school guys are studs this year. Watch Some Trautman TE from Dayton. The kid can catch the BALL. -
Not sure how we collectively missed this, but here it is...
Joe Thomas in His Own Words during an appearance on a show called Cleveland Browns Daily:
" I see Tristan Wirfs especially early on in his career as a guy that might start out as a Guard because just the way he moves he doesn't have as much hip mobility as I think he would need to come in and start right away as an Offensive Tackle and so when I watch him I think that he's probably going to end up starting right away as a Guard so for the Cleveland Browns they've got at least 1 really good Guard already so I think with that 1st pick they're going to be thinking offensive tackle and that's why I would put Tristan Wirfs back and say Andrew Thomas is more ready to start now as a prototypical offensive tackle. Number 3 as an offensive tackle I'd put Jedrick Wills...." --- Joe Thomas ----
Also...
About a week ago both Joe Thomas and John Greco each spent one day filling in for Nathan Zegura on "Cleveland Browns Daily" on AM 850. Being that both of them are former O-Lineman the topic of the the top O-Lineman in the draft was obviously gonna come up....
Both of them were of the belief that Tristan Wirfs, was an unbelievable athlete, coming off an tremendous combine but when it came to the talk of him as a viable option as a Tackle for the Browns both felt that, on tape, Wirf's "hips were a little stiff" and that he appeared to both them to be more of a future Guard than a future Tackle. Let alone a left Tackle.
When it comes to someone's thoughts on an O-line prospect I will take Joe Thomas's and John Greco's opinion any day over some "talking head" or beat reporter...
Thomas was very high on both Jedrick Wills and Andrew Thomas as "day one" starters for the Browns at tackle. He also felt, like some other folks, that it was reasonable to question whether Mehki Becton's overall build might not be best suited for the zone blocking scheme the Browns are gonna employ. A scheme that calls for the tackles to pull out wide well over a dozen times a game, if not more.
When someone is well over 350lbs will they have the agility and endurance to consistently be able to run down the line of scrimmage out in front of the running back before turning it up field? There is a huge difference between a zone running scheme and a power running scheme. Becton is probably more cut out for the latter.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Joe, of course not surprisingly, has been dead on his assessment of OL talent over the last few years. He's such a great commentator but I hope the Browns can convince the dude to take some sort of well paid scouting role, IDK. I'm never the dude to beat the drum of former greats being coaches/personnel (stop trying to make Kosar happen, it's not going to happen), but Joe's intelligence just leaps out.
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A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
I'm half way through the Texas game.
Murray will end up being the best looking LB in this class before it's all over IMHO. I really haven't even had much time to go through the backers and watch them save for Harrison. But he just jumps off the screen, it's incredibly difficult to NOT notice him. Everyone screaming about Simmons, but Murray might be THE will linebacker of this group.
edit: Almost forgot, when I'm taking a break from Murray, I'm watching Tega-Wanogho, LT from Auburn. Not sure if you've had a chance to watch him yet...?
I'm half way through the Texas game.
Murray will end up being the best looking LB in this class before it's all over IMHO.
End up? He's already the #1 ILB in this draft class. Not busting your balls here because I appreciate the passion and work you put into this for us. Anyway, aside from what I've seen online - the only 2 draft guides I bought rate him as the #1 ILB. In his Conference Championship game vrs Baylor - he had 8 solo tackles 2 assists, 1 sack and 1 PD. And the year before as a soph, in the CFP Semifinal vrs Alabama - he had 7 solo tackles, 8 assists and .5 sacks. His soph year was his best year vrs the run with 71 solo tackles, 84 assists and 4.5 sacks; BUT only 2 PD (which improved to 4 passes defensed as a junior in 2019). Looks like a bigger version of Mike Johnson.
So, what can he improve on? In his 42 starts in 3 years, he has 0 INTs and only 6 passes defensed. So, my best guess here is his biggest challenge will be his pre-snap awareness/reads that promote the quick recognition to get him to the inside hook zones on time to be efficient. A lot of that comes with experience as Joe Schobert reminded us. And now that he's really good at defending the pass, Jax gets the player we developed. Looking at what we did in FA for the 3 openings in our LB Corps, we added the ILB/MLB BJ Goodson (1 year contract only though) which still leaves us looking for 2 starters at OLB. It'll be interesting to see what we do at LBer in this draft.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Not sure how we collectively missed this, but here it is...
Joe Thomas in His Own Words during an appearance on a show called Cleveland Browns Daily:
" I see Tristan Wirfs especially early on in his career as a guy that might start out as a Guard because just the way he moves he doesn't have as much hip mobility as I think he would need to come in and start right away as an Offensive Tackle and so when I watch him I think that he's probably going to end up starting right away as a Guard so for the Cleveland Browns they've got at least 1 really good Guard already so I think with that 1st pick they're going to be thinking offensive tackle and that's why I would put Tristan Wirfs back and say Andrew Thomas is more ready to start now as a prototypical offensive tackle. Number 3 as an offensive tackle I'd put Jedrick Wills...." --- Joe Thomas ----
Also...
About a week ago both Joe Thomas and John Greco each spent one day filling in for Nathan Zegura on "Cleveland Browns Daily" on AM 850. Being that both of them are former O-Lineman the topic of the the top O-Lineman in the draft was obviously gonna come up....
Both of them were of the belief that Tristan Wirfs, was an unbelievable athlete, coming off an tremendous combine but when it came to the talk of him as a viable option as a Tackle for the Browns both felt that, on tape, Wirf's "hips were a little stiff" and that he appeared to both them to be more of a future Guard than a future Tackle. Let alone a left Tackle.
When it comes to someone's thoughts on an O-line prospect I will take Joe Thomas's and John Greco's opinion any day over some "talking head" or beat reporter...
Thomas was very high on both Jedrick Wills and Andrew Thomas as "day one" starters for the Browns at tackle. He also felt, like some other folks, that it was reasonable to question whether Mehki Becton's overall build might not be best suited for the zone blocking scheme the Browns are gonna employ. A scheme that calls for the tackles to pull out wide well over a dozen times a game, if not more.
When someone is well over 350lbs will they have the agility and endurance to consistently be able to run down the line of scrimmage out in front of the running back before turning it up field? There is a huge difference between a zone running scheme and a power running scheme. Becton is probably more cut out for the latter.
Not sure how we collectively missed this, but here it is...
Also...
I watched a ton of Iowa football this past year. I thought he stood out and he had good company on the line. It was pointed out during the year that he was a state champion wrestler in HS in Iowa - impressive feat for those who follow wrestling.
You gotta to have great hips and you have to know the leverage game well to wrestle at a high level especially mid and upper weights along with having great balance. My only surprise with Joe’s critique is the Lack of hip mobility.
Having said that i don’t know If he’s my favorite left tackle prospect.
im moving in the Slight trade down Jones camp.
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The tape don't lie.
Ain't that the truth?! Neither does a LT that made 10 consecutive Pro Bowls at the position in terms of expertise about job requirements.
1 amendment I'll add to your point is "if you see enough tape on a guy." I ran around here like a rooster on steroids after I watched videos of Mack Wilson's greatest moments. What I'm getting at here during this time of year is sometimes we don't dig deep enough on the even the best of prospects. I'm going to give you an example in a second on a guy I think should still be the #1 rated LT prospect (Andrew Thomas). Having said that, the latter part of the video below finds a flaw with a pass pro fundamental/hand placement the narrator thinks is from a bad teaching (also illustrated via example with the RT confirming why he thinks it's from the teaching). And who's that LG #66 modeling the FLABS (Flugel's Abs)? Thatta boy!!!
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The tape don't lie.
Sure doesn't... but sometimes it fibs. Any player can have a bad game due to injury or a bad matchup. That's why in the past I tried to find games early and late in a season against varying levels of opposition. Can't find enough tape to do that this year.
That said it's refreshing to post here where tape aficionados have become more widespread over the past couple years.
Visited reddit for the first time in a long time when site went down the other day. If I had a nickel for every "Wirfs Combine" type post, then I'd have a quarter... some Becton backers as well. Few of these talk "tape".
Most tape-watching posters there seem to have joined Camp Thomas. Wills has a good share of supporters as well. Jones seems to be the under-watched prospect.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Not sure how we collectively missed this, but here it is...
Joe Thomas in His Own Words during an appearance on a show called Cleveland Browns Daily:
" I see Tristan Wirfs especially early on in his career as a guy that might start out as a Guard because just the way he moves he doesn't have as much hip mobility as I think he would need to come in and start right away as an Offensive Tackle and so when I watch him I think that he's probably going to end up starting right away as a Guard so for the Cleveland Browns they've got at least 1 really good Guard already so I think with that 1st pick they're going to be thinking offensive tackle and that's why I would put Tristan Wirfs back and say Andrew Thomas is more ready to start now as a prototypical offensive tackle. Number 3 as an offensive tackle I'd put Jedrick Wills...." --- Joe Thomas ----
Also...
About a week ago both Joe Thomas and John Greco each spent one day filling in for Nathan Zegura on "Cleveland Browns Daily" on AM 850. Being that both of them are former O-Lineman the topic of the the top O-Lineman in the draft was obviously gonna come up....
Both of them were of the belief that Tristan Wirfs, was an unbelievable athlete, coming off an tremendous combine but when it came to the talk of him as a viable option as a Tackle for the Browns both felt that, on tape, Wirf's "hips were a little stiff" and that he appeared to both them to be more of a future Guard than a future Tackle. Let alone a left Tackle.
When it comes to someone's thoughts on an O-line prospect I will take Joe Thomas's and John Greco's opinion any day over some "talking head" or beat reporter...
Thomas was very high on both Jedrick Wills and Andrew Thomas as "day one" starters for the Browns at tackle. He also felt, like some other folks, that it was reasonable to question whether Mehki Becton's overall build might not be best suited for the zone blocking scheme the Browns are gonna employ. A scheme that calls for the tackles to pull out wide well over a dozen times a game, if not more.
When someone is well over 350lbs will they have the agility and endurance to consistently be able to run down the line of scrimmage out in front of the running back before turning it up field? There is a huge difference between a zone running scheme and a power running scheme. Becton is probably more cut out for the latter.
" I see Tristan Wirfs especially early on in his career as a guy that might start out as a Guard..."
Just reread this and made me wonder... when has a prospect ever started out at OG and then moved to OT?
I've seen vets do it on an interim basis when a starting OT is hurt and the OL is shuffled, but can't think of a single instance of a starting OG moving on to be a starting OT.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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