The 'Who you watching?' 2020 thread.
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Here's Ezra... Ezra Cleveland
Only one cutdown... Boise at FSU... watched most of 1st-half (FSU up 31-13).. the game wasn't pretty and neither was Ezra...
- PassPro out of a 2-point was pretty damn good... gave up only one pressure. Movement was decent and as long as he was square, he was in control... or at least he stayed in the way. "Control" is a bit of an overstatement. He does not punch. He does make his chest available to others. The pressure he gave up was due to being rocked by a chest punch.
- Run block out of a 3-point was weak. Drive blocks were beaten by punch, but even worse was his ZBS performance. Seemed like every time he tried to flow he ended up being knocked a yard or two behind the LOS.
- 2-point? 3-point? Realized midway thru Q2 that I could predict run/pass by Ezra's stance. Then I finally saw him try to PassPro out of a 3-point... QB was almost killed. Edge was by EZ in a flash... EZ barely got out of his stance.
Ezra Cleveland plays much slower than his Combine numbers would predict. And I don't remember ever saying this about an OT before, but he just plays soft. And I mean it's not just a lack of the "nasty" we like in OL... I've liked a lot of OL who weren't nasty... Cleveland plays soft.
Can he get better? Learn a kick step? Drop his hips? Learn to punch? Learn to hand-fight? Learn to get out of a 3-point? Sure... he looks athletic enough to do all those things.
But when he does none of those things now, then I have to wonder why?
I know a half of tape is very little to come to a snap judgement, but he looks like a Day 3 guy to me...
Here's Ezra... Ezra Cleveland
Only one cutdown... Boise at FSU... watched most of 1st-half (FSU up 31-13).. the game wasn't pretty and neither was Ezra...
- PassPro out of a 2-point was pretty damn good... gave up only one pressure. Movement was decent and as long as he was square, he was in control... or at least he stayed in the way. "Control" is a bit of an overstatement. He does not punch. He does make his chest available to others. The pressure he gave up was due to being rocked by a chest punch.
- Run block out of a 3-point was weak. Drive blocks were beaten by punch, but even worse was his ZBS performance. Seemed like every time he tried to flow he ended up being knocked a yard or two behind the LOS.
- 2-point? 3-point? Realized midway thru Q2 that I could predict run/pass by Ezra's stance. Then I finally saw him try to PassPro out of a 3-point... QB was almost killed. Edge was by EZ in a flash... EZ barely got out of his stance.
Ezra Cleveland plays much slower than his Combine numbers would predict. And I don't remember ever saying this about an OT before, but he just plays soft. And I mean it's not just a lack of the "nasty" we like in OL... I've liked a lot of OL who weren't nasty... Cleveland plays soft.
Can he get better? Learn a kick step? Drop his hips? Learn to punch? Learn to hand-fight? Learn to get out of a 3-point? Sure... he looks athletic enough to do all those things.
But when he does none of those things now, then I have to wonder why?
I know a half of tape is very little to come to a snap judgement, but he looks like a Day 3 guy to me...
Good stuff! For some reason I keep thinking of the band that calls themselves "Better than Ezra."
Anyway, I've read some mentions of him kicking inside to OG. In fact, Lindy's Draft Guide rated him as the 2nd best OG. Meanwhile, Athlon's Draft rated him as the 10th best OT but noted as a weak point "Cleveland is a bit fringy for the outside when it comes to athleticism. He struggles to anchor if forced to range to fit in pass protection; he'll have issues with speed-to-power at the next level." The summary read "he might have some limitations in pass protection and ultimately could kick inside, but Cleveland has a good chance to be a long term NFL starter."
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Here's Ezra... Ezra Cleveland
Only one cutdown... Boise at FSU... watched most of 1st-half (FSU up 31-13).. the game wasn't pretty and neither was Ezra...
- PassPro out of a 2-point was pretty damn good... gave up only one pressure. Movement was decent and as long as he was square, he was in control... or at least he stayed in the way. "Control" is a bit of an overstatement. He does not punch. He does make his chest available to others. The pressure he gave up was due to being rocked by a chest punch.
- Run block out of a 3-point was weak. Drive blocks were beaten by punch, but even worse was his ZBS performance. Seemed like every time he tried to flow he ended up being knocked a yard or two behind the LOS.
- 2-point? 3-point? Realized midway thru Q2 that I could predict run/pass by Ezra's stance. Then I finally saw him try to PassPro out of a 3-point... QB was almost killed. Edge was by EZ in a flash... EZ barely got out of his stance.
Ezra Cleveland plays much slower than his Combine numbers would predict. And I don't remember ever saying this about an OT before, but he just plays soft. And I mean it's not just a lack of the "nasty" we like in OL... I've liked a lot of OL who weren't nasty... Cleveland plays soft.
Can he get better? Learn a kick step? Drop his hips? Learn to punch? Learn to hand-fight? Learn to get out of a 3-point? Sure... he looks athletic enough to do all those things.
But when he does none of those things now, then I have to wonder why?
I know a half of tape is very little to come to a snap judgement, but he looks like a Day 3 guy to me...
Good stuff! For some reason I keep thinking of the band that calls themselves "Better than Ezra."
Anyway, I've read some mentions of him kicking inside to OG. In fact, Lindy's Draft Guide rated him as the 2nd best OG. Meanwhile, Athlon's Draft rated him as the 10th best OT but noted as a weak point "Cleveland is a bit fringy for the outside when it comes to athleticism. He struggles to anchor if forced to range to fit in pass protection; he'll have issues with speed-to-power at the next level." The summary read "he might have some limitations in pass protection and ultimately could kick inside, but Cleveland has a good chance to be a long term NFL starter."
Good stuff! For some reason I keep thinking of the band that calls themselves "Better than Ezra."
Anyway, I've read some mentions of him kicking inside to OG. In fact, Lindy's Draft Guide rated him as the 2nd best OG. Meanwhile, Athlon's Draft rated him as the 10th best OT but noted as a weak point "Cleveland is a bit fringy for the outside when it comes to athleticism. He struggles to anchor if forced to range to fit in pass protection; he'll have issues with speed-to-power at the next level." The summary read "he might have some limitations in pass protection and ultimately could kick inside, but Cleveland has a good chance to be a long term NFL starter."
I actually replied to this in the LT Thread and it ended up here. I'm having a flashback to watching Alf ending up in a Gilligan's Island episode. That same night when I asked my brother's pregnant girlfriend if she should be smoking and she said "Don't worry Butch, these aren't the kind that cause low birth weight." The problem was I was already too distracted worrying about what was in my beverage or spaghetti sauce to explain the Alf episode.
Even worse, I am now talking to myself. The good news is there is no arguing...
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Good stuff! For some reason I keep thinking of the band that calls themselves "Better than Ezra."
Anyway, I've read some mentions of him kicking inside to OG. In fact, Lindy's Draft Guide rated him as the 2nd best OG. Meanwhile, Athlon's Draft rated him as the 10th best OT but noted as a weak point "Cleveland is a bit fringy for the outside when it comes to athleticism. He struggles to anchor if forced to range to fit in pass protection; he'll have issues with speed-to-power at the next level." The summary read "he might have some limitations in pass protection and ultimately could kick inside, but Cleveland has a good chance to be a long term NFL starter."
I actually replied to this in the LT Thread and it ended up here. I'm having a flashback to watching Alf ending up in a Gilligan's Island episode. That same night when I asked my brother's pregnant girlfriend if she should be smoking and she said "Don't worry Butch, these aren't the kind that cause low birth weight." The problem was I was already too distracted worrying about what was in my beverage or spaghetti sauce to explain the Alf episode.
Even worse, I am now talking to myself. The good news is there is no arguing...
I actually replied to this in the LT Thread and it ended up here. I'm having a flashback to watching Alf ending up in a Gilligan's Island episode. That same night when I asked my brother's pregnant girlfriend if she should be smoking and she said "Don't worry Butch, these aren't the kind that cause low birth weight." The problem was I was already too distracted worrying about what was in my beverage or spaghetti sauce to explain the Alf episode.
Even worse, I am now talking to myself. The good news is there is no arguing...
ALF??? You may have had accidental spillsies of whiskey-spiked root beer into your drink... LOL
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Here's Ezra... Ezra Cleveland
Only one cutdown... Boise at FSU... watched most of 1st-half (FSU up 31-13).. the game wasn't pretty and neither was Ezra...
- PassPro out of a 2-point was pretty damn good... gave up only one pressure. Movement was decent and as long as he was square, he was in control... or at least he stayed in the way. "Control" is a bit of an overstatement. He does not punch. He does make his chest available to others. The pressure he gave up was due to being rocked by a chest punch.
- Run block out of a 3-point was weak. Drive blocks were beaten by punch, but even worse was his ZBS performance. Seemed like every time he tried to flow he ended up being knocked a yard or two behind the LOS.
- 2-point? 3-point? Realized midway thru Q2 that I could predict run/pass by Ezra's stance. Then I finally saw him try to PassPro out of a 3-point... QB was almost killed. Edge was by EZ in a flash... EZ barely got out of his stance.
Ezra Cleveland plays much slower than his Combine numbers would predict. And I don't remember ever saying this about an OT before, but he just plays soft. And I mean it's not just a lack of the "nasty" we like in OL... I've liked a lot of OL who weren't nasty... Cleveland plays soft.
Can he get better? Learn a kick step? Drop his hips? Learn to punch? Learn to hand-fight? Learn to get out of a 3-point? Sure... he looks athletic enough to do all those things.
But when he does none of those things now, then I have to wonder why?
I know a half of tape is very little to come to a snap judgement, but he looks like a Day 3 guy to me...
Good stuff! For some reason I keep thinking of the band that calls themselves "Better than Ezra."
Anyway, I've read some mentions of him kicking inside to OG. In fact, Lindy's Draft Guide rated him as the 2nd best OG. Meanwhile, Athlon's Draft rated him as the 10th best OT but noted as a weak point "Cleveland is a bit fringy for the outside when it comes to athleticism. He struggles to anchor if forced to range to fit in pass protection; he'll have issues with speed-to-power at the next level." The summary read "he might have some limitations in pass protection and ultimately could kick inside, but Cleveland has a good chance to be a long term NFL starter."
Good stuff! For some reason I keep thinking of the band that calls themselves "Better than Ezra."
Anyway, I've read some mentions of him kicking inside to OG. In fact, Lindy's Draft Guide rated him as the 2nd best OG. Meanwhile, Athlon's Draft rated him as the 10th best OT but noted as a weak point "Cleveland is a bit fringy for the outside when it comes to athleticism. He struggles to anchor if forced to range to fit in pass protection; he'll have issues with speed-to-power at the next level." The summary read "he might have some limitations in pass protection and ultimately could kick inside, but Cleveland has a good chance to be a long term NFL starter."
How does a guy who plays too high find salvation by moving inside?
Even worse, I am now talking to myself. The good news is there is no arguing...
I've tried that. Give it time.
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I haven't watched a single down of Kenneth Murray, LB, OU until now. I'm 17 seconds into the first game of his that I found (vs Texas). Think I might already love this kid.
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Movement was decent and as long as he was square, he was in control... or at least he stayed in the way. "Control" is a bit of an overstatement. He does not punch. He does make his chest available to others. The pressure he gave up was due to being rocked by a chest punch.
- Run block out of a 3-point was weak. Drive blocks were beaten by punch. Seemed like every time he tried to flow he ended up being knocked a yard or two behind the LOS.
Cam Erving if I didn't see the name at the top of the post.
Especially the "soft" part.
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I haven't watched a single down of Kenneth Murray, LB, OU until now. I'm 17 seconds into the first game of his that I found (vs Texas). Think I might already love this kid.
I haven't watched a single down of Kenneth Murray, LB, OU until now. I'm 17 seconds into the first game of his that I found (vs Texas). Think I might already love this kid.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I haven't watched a single down of Kenneth Murray, LB, OU until now. I'm 17 seconds into the first game of his that I found (vs Texas). Think I might already love this kid.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
I'm half way through the Texas game.
Murray will end up being the best looking LB in this class before it's all over IMHO. I really haven't even had much time to go through the backers and watch them save for Harrison. But he just jumps off the screen, it's incredibly difficult to NOT notice him. Everyone screaming about Simmons, but Murray might be THE will linebacker of this group.
edit: Almost forgot, when I'm taking a break from Murray, I'm watching Tega-Wanogho, LT from Auburn. Not sure if you've had a chance to watch him yet...?
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I haven't watched a single down of Kenneth Murray, LB, OU until now. I'm 17 seconds into the first game of his that I found (vs Texas). Think I might already love this kid.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
A while back disparaged this ILB class as a group. I've since learned that I definitely owe Murray an apology. Jury is still out on Queen.
I have liked Harrison's value as a late-2nd, early-3rd pick for a while now.
Murray was the only ILB taken in round one of our Mock Draft: #23; Queen taken Rd. 2. #34
I took Harrison for the Browns in Rd. 3 at #74.
So, maybe we were right on collectively with those guys?
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
that's a bad as$ dawg, i don't want to see anywhere in the AFCN..strong pad level hands, with good reach, that will break your hands off.. does watching Timmy Jernigan come to mind?
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that's a bad as$ dawg, i don't want to see anywhere in the AFCN..strong pad level hands, with good reach, that will break your hands off.. does watching Timmy Jernigan come to mind?
I'm not entirely sure if it's just any one player that comes to mind. He isn't very tall, but he has a great first step and he has boxer like hands. To me that's Aaron Donald. Natural leverage created by height (lack of) and a strong base with quick feet. But he's a bit thicker, 3bills. Maybe 305ish? He has a decent wing span, but he doesn't have such a great one that I would walk him out over a guard every down. So I could see some Timmy J there. He's basically a gap shooting 1tech in an odd front base, then you just kick him around as you see fit. But his burst, violence and pad level give centers and guards fits to their interior shoulder. Almost like a smaller Akiem Hicks?
An interesting, but very fun watch.
edit: Right team, wrong player. A smaller Eddie Goldman.
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
4 year starter at OU. Recruited by every major college program.
i know It came down to OU and Ohio State. I know OSU was disappointed when they didn’t land him
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Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
Neville Gallimore Is. A. Fucking. Dog. Good lord.
Had to stop watching Murray for a moment, because when you find good LB play, generally that means there's some quality big boys in front of him.
True, but the LB still has to cash in the IDL's effort.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
Heard about that kid. He's on the long list of watching I need to keep working on. I hear the work "technician" thrown around, and I'm a fan of that word.
But I just got done watching every snap of Kinlaw vs UNC. Dude ends up on the ground.... a lot.
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Unpopular opinion - I feel comfortable passing on Javon Kinlaw.
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
I suppose Kinlaw, very very athletic for his size. will be good.
But.... the OT I'm really interested in...held his own and then some against...Kinlaw. Surprised some people:
https://www.bucsnation.com/2020/2/14/21133729/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-offensive-tackle-ben-bartch
"
Steven Montez is running away with the ball and I can’t turn the camera away from Ben Bartch putting Kinlaw down. #SeniorBowl pic.twitter.com/63PsO4rejo
— Austin Silvey (@SilveyESP) January 23, 2020"
Barth looks nasty too. He may stack up with the top guys when all is said and done. I don’t think any of the tackles are elite. I really have a hard time chasing good Olineman in the top 10 just because you need one. I want a Joe Thomas or a Tony Boselli in that range.
also Some of these small school guys are studs this year. Watch Some Trautman TE from Dayton. The kid can catch the BALL. -
Not sure how we collectively missed this, but here it is...
Joe Thomas in His Own Words during an appearance on a show called Cleveland Browns Daily:
" I see Tristan Wirfs especially early on in his career as a guy that might start out as a Guard because just the way he moves he doesn't have as much hip mobility as I think he would need to come in and start right away as an Offensive Tackle and so when I watch him I think that he's probably going to end up starting right away as a Guard so for the Cleveland Browns they've got at least 1 really good Guard already so I think with that 1st pick they're going to be thinking offensive tackle and that's why I would put Tristan Wirfs back and say Andrew Thomas is more ready to start now as a prototypical offensive tackle. Number 3 as an offensive tackle I'd put Jedrick Wills...." --- Joe Thomas ----
Also...
About a week ago both Joe Thomas and John Greco each spent one day filling in for Nathan Zegura on "Cleveland Browns Daily" on AM 850. Being that both of them are former O-Lineman the topic of the the top O-Lineman in the draft was obviously gonna come up....
Both of them were of the belief that Tristan Wirfs, was an unbelievable athlete, coming off an tremendous combine but when it came to the talk of him as a viable option as a Tackle for the Browns both felt that, on tape, Wirf's "hips were a little stiff" and that he appeared to both them to be more of a future Guard than a future Tackle. Let alone a left Tackle.
When it comes to someone's thoughts on an O-line prospect I will take Joe Thomas's and John Greco's opinion any day over some "talking head" or beat reporter...
Thomas was very high on both Jedrick Wills and Andrew Thomas as "day one" starters for the Browns at tackle. He also felt, like some other folks, that it was reasonable to question whether Mehki Becton's overall build might not be best suited for the zone blocking scheme the Browns are gonna employ. A scheme that calls for the tackles to pull out wide well over a dozen times a game, if not more.
When someone is well over 350lbs will they have the agility and endurance to consistently be able to run down the line of scrimmage out in front of the running back before turning it up field? There is a huge difference between a zone running scheme and a power running scheme. Becton is probably more cut out for the latter.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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