Deep Thoughts with BrownsFaninPA
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The "wastes" have certainly not been limited to Manziel. Quinn, Weeden, Gilbert, Erving, Corbett, Mingo, Wimbley, Coleman, We got little out of Shelton, Richardson; Braylon...1-2 good years then pfft.
And it is not like these guys really showed much when they went elsewhere. Maybe some minor contributions, but no biggie. Of course, we lost a couple of guys who were good when here.....but also good when they went elsewhere: Mack, Schwartz.
Vinny had some big years (pro bowl?) after he went to Balt. (4,177 yds, 33 TDs in 1996). I know, I know, the whole team went there, so I don't know how you should qualify that. Then he spent years at the Jets...up until recently, one of the only QBs playing into his 40's. I know Browns did not draft him, TB did.
Derrick Alexander went on to have some good years in Balt. and KC. (He's listed as 6-2, 200 but he seemed way bigger in person.)
Trent Richardson sucked where ever he went.
Vinny had some big years (pro bowl?) after he went to Balt. (4,177 yds, 33 TDs in 1996). I know, I know, the whole team went there, so I don't know how you should qualify that. Then he spent years at the Jets...up until recently, one of the only QBs playing into his 40's. I know Browns did not draft him, TB did.
Derrick Alexander went on to have some good years in Balt. and KC. (He's listed as 6-2, 200 but he seemed way bigger in person.)
Trent Richardson sucked where ever he went.
I assumed that were were talking about Browns draft picks. Vinny was actually a somewhat proven commodity by the time he got here.
Talk about a waste? Craig Powell....but, at least, he became Baltimore's waste after his contract was assigned to that franchise in the "Modell" move....though honestly, I am not certain he ever made it to Balt. He may have been cut before that.
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Winslow was playing bone on bone in his knee by the end of his Miami days. That was a pick, that while produced well for a few seasons, was never going to be a player of any longevity.
JFF? Shitty record in college vs top-50 defenses, had a top 5 NFL receiver and an NFL loaded offensive line to compensate for his physical and mental limitations. It's incredibly rare where you'll see me outright dismiss a player in black and white terms and LOATHE their hype. I've learned It's possible to be wrong, especially given that drafting talent isn't a science. Otherwise this would be a much easier climb back to the top for a lot of franchises.
But Manziel was one of those exceptions. His play on the field was loaded with defensive mishaps, a degree of luck, and an incredible load of undisciplined, sand lot style play. That's just his performance on the field. The dude was an absolute clown off of it.
Even with his mental issues, his potential as an NFL starter will always be in doubt IMHO. Kid just didn't have the good between the ears. I've been thrown out of 2 bars in my life. And when that pick was announced I chugged my beer, slammed a shot of 151, "MF'd" everybody up and down the bar (including the bar tender whom I still tipped well) who cheered for the pick and was politely escorted out.
JFF in the 1st made me realize I knew more than an NFL owner that day.
Well, I think it is fair to say that the owner, on that day, thought he was getting a stud near the top of that first round. Fact is, that guy was a bigger bust than Johnny...really. Gilbert (so maybe you also knew better than an NFL GM). And the owner at that point was NOT looking at the same thing you were looking for: HE was looking for publicity for his team....for "star Power"....which he hoped translated into $$$$. He was NOT looking at it from the discerning talent evaluation perspective. And, by the way.....he got that: publicity....."star power" (though the attention was not for his on field play)....and who knows if that choice garnered him any actually monetary remuneration.
Well, I think it is fair to say that the owner, on that day, thought he was getting a stud near the top of that first round. Fact is, that guy was a bigger bust than Johnny...really. Gilbert (so maybe you also knew better than an NFL GM). And the owner at that point was NOT looking at the same thing you were looking for: HE was looking for publicity for his team....for "star Power"....which he hoped translated into $$$$. He was NOT looking at it from the discerning talent evaluation perspective. And, by the way.....he got that: publicity....."star power" (though the attention was not for his on field play)....and who knows if that choice garnered him any actually monetary remuneration.
I'm aware of the reason why Manziel was drafted. Star power without the production = nothing. Off season hype, which sold season tickets for one year.
Then investing that pick in Johnny which possibly could have gone towards an actual contributor, somebody that would have helped the team garner some wins - THAT is what effects the base $$$ line. The long term. Instead it was an attempt to make the Browns the cosmetic glamour darlings, which just wound up as yet another failed QB pick to the ash heap. Little by little culminating to our grand eventual demise of the 2017 season.
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The Browns have had some lousy duds when it comes to high profile players. Remember when Kellen Winslow was a rookie, wow he had issues from the beginning. And our most recent flop was Johnny Manziel. I always wondered how good of a player he may have been if he didn't act like a wild child and his care-free life style. Over the years it seemed like the Browns picked a player of high hopes, and they ended up being let go 2 yrs later.
Winslow Jr. was pretty damn good as I recall... then came a motorcycle thing and a freak broken leg he suffered on an on-side kick team. But prior to those injuries... the kid was good... a head case, but good.
JFF? Completely different (head) case... Anyone with half a brain saw what was going to happen to any team stupid enough to draft him. He never had a chance of making it in the NFL... too undisciplined in his play as well as his life... a "style" he had gotten away with at every prior level.
High hopes? Not sure that describes many of the players we picked, but it sure describes the approach of many past FOs...
Winslow Jr. was pretty damn good as I recall... then came a motorcycle thing and a freak broken leg he suffered on an on-side kick team. But prior to those injuries... the kid was good... a head case, but good.
JFF? Completely different (head) case... Anyone with half a brain saw what was going to happen to any team stupid enough to draft him. He never had a chance of making it in the NFL... too undisciplined in his play as well as his life... a "style" he had gotten away with at every prior level.
High hopes? Not sure that describes many of the players we picked, but it sure describes the approach of many past FOs...
He was a 'soldja'.
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Were you not around in 2002?
Not on the forums but I remember that day...
Not on the forums but I remember that day...
Yea....fucking hell....so do I. We have a 17 pt. lead on the road vs Shittstown. Butch goes into motherfucking prevent defense in the middle of the 3rd qtr.....giving those Spermsuckers momentum. (Foge Fazio...RIP...our DC was livid about that). Still, if Northcutt hadn't committed "The Drop" ....every bit as bad in my mind as The Fumble.....worse actually, because at least with Byner the fumble was caused by a good defensive play....here, it was just an out and out Drop. If not for The Drop, we still win that game.
Go to the 15:30 mark about:
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Last year this team had all the NFL in a buzz because of Baker Mayfield, and Odell, Miles Garrett and Nick Chubb etc. So many sports reports and tv broadcasters were all on this bandwagon of wins for the Browns, only because of who was on the team, etc. Then the games were played, and then disaster struck. It was like why is this team always getting the losing streak every season. Hell you can't get any worse than losing all 16 games in one season, and then only winning 2 . Why is it that when the game plan looks so promising on paper, and then it turns out to be another flop? And ending the season as losers once again for the Browns historic legacy.
Why is it that when the game plan looks so promising on paper, and then it turns out to be another flop?
I got caught up in the 2019 hype as well... and I knew we had OL issues and thought we were weak up the middle of our D.
But virtually no one saw the complete, shit-the-bed show coming that was our ultra-Rookie HC, Freddie... which contributed to the regression of Baker.
But hope springs eternal... and afterall... tomorrow is another day.
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Winslow was playing bone on bone in his knee by the end of his Miami days. That was a pick, that while produced well for a few seasons, was never going to be a player of any longevity.
JFF? Shitty record in college vs top-50 defenses, had a top 5 NFL receiver and an NFL loaded offensive line to compensate for his physical and mental limitations. It's incredibly rare where you'll see me outright dismiss a player in black and white terms and LOATHE their hype. I've learned It's possible to be wrong, especially given that drafting talent isn't a science. Otherwise this would be a much easier climb back to the top for a lot of franchises.
But Manziel was one of those exceptions. His play on the field was loaded with defensive mishaps, a degree of luck, and an incredible load of undisciplined, sand lot style play. That's just his performance on the field. The dude was an absolute clown off of it.
Even with his mental issues, his potential as an NFL starter will always be in doubt IMHO. Kid just didn't have the good between the ears. I've been thrown out of 2 bars in my life. And when that pick was announced I chugged my beer, slammed a shot of 151, "MF'd" everybody up and down the bar (including the bar tender whom I still tipped well) who cheered for the pick and was politely escorted out.
JFF in the 1st made me realize I knew more than an NFL owner that day.
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Winslow was playing bone on bone in his knee by the end of his Miami days. That was a pick, that while produced well for a few seasons, was never going to be a player of any longevity.
JFF? Shitty record in college vs top-50 defenses, had a top 5 NFL receiver and an NFL loaded offensive line to compensate for his physical and mental limitations. It's incredibly rare where you'll see me outright dismiss a player in black and white terms and LOATHE their hype. I've learned It's possible to be wrong, especially given that drafting talent isn't a science. Otherwise this would be a much easier climb back to the top for a lot of franchises.
But Manziel was one of those exceptions. His play on the field was loaded with defensive mishaps, a degree of luck, and an incredible load of undisciplined, sand lot style play. That's just his performance on the field. The dude was an absolute clown off of it.
Even with his mental issues, his potential as an NFL starter will always be in doubt IMHO. Kid just didn't have the good between the ears. I've been thrown out of 2 bars in my life. And when that pick was announced I chugged my beer, slammed a shot of 151, "MF'd" everybody up and down the bar (including the bar tender whom I still tipped well) who cheered for the pick and was politely escorted out.
JFF in the 1st made me realize I knew more than an NFL owner that day.
JFF in the 1st made me realize I knew more than an NFL owner that day.
Don’t forget the homeless guy too
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I’ve hated almost every QB the Browns have drafted since their rebirth.
I think I felt indifferent about Couch I was just happy to have football back.But..Brady Quinn awful it could have been the Notre Dame thing but Both Quinn And Kizer I was not happy. Weeden why the old guy!!! Charlie Frye why the MAC guy!!!
I liked Colt McCoy though I remember saying At time I’ve seen two QBs just toy with OSU - Philip Rivers 2003 and Brees 2000. After that Fiesta Bowl against OSU I was convinced he had what it took. Credit to him he’s still playing and has had a nice career, but the tools weren’t as big as the heart and the head...and we damaged his head a bit (Steeler game) and didn’t protect him well at other times.
And one other RB.... TRich ...after that Bengal game where he skipped past a couple defenders I was thinking this guy Is ordinary???? What the heck was Jim Brown thinking!!!
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Don’t forget the homeless guy too
Homeless guy didn't have the scouting department.
I’ve hated almost every QB the Browns have drafted since their rebirth.
I think I felt indifferent about Couch I was just happy to have football back.But..Brady Quinn awful it could have been the Notre Dame thing but Both Quinn And Kizer I was not happy. Weeden why the old guy!!! Charlie Frye why the MAC guy!!!
I liked Colt McCoy though I remember saying At time I’ve seen two QBs just toy with OSU - Philip Rivers 2003 and Brees 2000. After that Fiesta Bowl against OSU I was convinced he had what it took. Credit to him he’s still playing and has had a nice career, but the tools weren’t as big as the heart and the head...and we damaged his head a bit (Steeler game) and didn’t protect him well at other times.
And one other RB.... TRich ...after that Bengal game where he skipped past a couple defenders I was thinking this guy Is ordinary???? What the heck was Jim Brown thinking!!!
The same Fiesta bowl where Texas scored 3 points in the entire 1st half? If anything, that was the first defense to make Colt look human.
Although I was good with him being picked in the 3rd round. I really feel the injury cost him quite a bit in terms of NFL production. Despite not being the biggest QB, Colt had a pretty live arm at Texas. Was never the same in Cleveland.
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I never will forget my reaction when the Browns drafted back up to the dreaded #22... "ohhh fuck."
It was obvious when it was announced that the Browns had traded with Dallas that they would draft Manziel. #22 is where the Browns go to die regarding drafting shitty QBs. Weeden, Brady Quinn.
And when it was announced that Manziel was the pick, I seriously considered becoming a Packers fan. Midwest team, uniforms almost identical to the Browns.
And Tour's favorite SI writer Pete Smith laughed and laughed and laughed.
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Don’t forget the homeless guy too
Homeless guy didn't have the scouting department.
I’ve hated almost every QB the Browns have drafted since their rebirth.
I think I felt indifferent about Couch I was just happy to have football back.But..Brady Quinn awful it could have been the Notre Dame thing but Both Quinn And Kizer I was not happy. Weeden why the old guy!!! Charlie Frye why the MAC guy!!!
I liked Colt McCoy though I remember saying At time I’ve seen two QBs just toy with OSU - Philip Rivers 2003 and Brees 2000. After that Fiesta Bowl against OSU I was convinced he had what it took. Credit to him he’s still playing and has had a nice career, but the tools weren’t as big as the heart and the head...and we damaged his head a bit (Steeler game) and didn’t protect him well at other times.
And one other RB.... TRich ...after that Bengal game where he skipped past a couple defenders I was thinking this guy Is ordinary???? What the heck was Jim Brown thinking!!!
The same Fiesta bowl where Texas scored 3 points in the entire 1st half? If anything, that was the first defense to make Colt look human.
Although I was good with him being picked in the 3rd round. I really feel the injury cost him quite a bit in terms of NFL production. Despite not being the biggest QB, Colt had a pretty live arm at Texas. Was never the same in Cleveland.
Although I was good with him being picked in the 3rd round. I really feel the injury cost him quite a bit in terms of NFL production. Despite not being the biggest QB, Colt had a pretty live arm at Texas. Was never the same in Cleveland.
Completely agree... It wasn't until Colt left us that the nerve damage to his right arm recovered.
I never will forget my reaction when the Browns drafted back up to the dreaded #22... "ohhh fuck."
It was obvious when it was announced that the Browns had traded with Dallas that they would draft Manziel. #22 is where the Browns go to die regarding drafting shitty QBs. Weeden, Brady Quinn.
And all this time I thought it was an echo of me that I heard...
I was really tuned in when we tabbed Brady Q, but I was when we wasted that pick on that clay-pigeon breaking mofo... only JFF could make picking Wheezy look good by contrast.
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Lets see what 'The Patriot Way' looks like without Tom.
Count me as one who thinks the Patriots will NOT suck without Brady.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
I know mentioning the Patriots can cause many fans to grit their teeth and shun the thoughts of Tom Brady and Bill Belicheck, but if one team can put in plays that for some reason always works to gain yards and win games, how far can the Browns go if this team tries to do it the Patriot way? C'mon we all want the Browns to win games, but is it that hard for this Browns team to win 10 games at least? How great would it be for the Browns to finally make it to the Super Bowl, and win it ?
... how far can the Browns go if this team tries to do it the Patriot way? C'mon we all want the Browns to win games, but is it that hard for this Browns team to win 10 games at least? How great would it be for the Browns to finally make it to the Super Bowl, and win it ?
No... we aren't the Pats. We can't develop their "mindset" or "do it" their way.
We need to develop our own mindset.... our own way.
And by the way ... there is no one, single "Patriot way".
Count me as one who thinks the Patriots will NOT suck without Brady.
Make that two... I expect to see a strong D and ground game.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Don’t forget the homeless guy too
Homeless guy didn't have the scouting department.
I’ve hated almost every QB the Browns have drafted since their rebirth.
I think I felt indifferent about Couch I was just happy to have football back.But..Brady Quinn awful it could have been the Notre Dame thing but Both Quinn And Kizer I was not happy. Weeden why the old guy!!! Charlie Frye why the MAC guy!!!
I liked Colt McCoy though I remember saying At time I’ve seen two QBs just toy with OSU - Philip Rivers 2003 and Brees 2000. After that Fiesta Bowl against OSU I was convinced he had what it took. Credit to him he’s still playing and has had a nice career, but the tools weren’t as big as the heart and the head...and we damaged his head a bit (Steeler game) and didn’t protect him well at other times.
And one other RB.... TRich ...after that Bengal game where he skipped past a couple defenders I was thinking this guy Is ordinary???? What the heck was Jim Brown thinking!!!
The same Fiesta bowl where Texas scored 3 points in the entire 1st half? If anything, that was the first defense to make Colt look human.
Although I was good with him being picked in the 3rd round. I really feel the injury cost him quite a bit in terms of NFL production. Despite not being the biggest QB, Colt had a pretty live arm at Texas. Was never the same in Cleveland.
Homeless guy didn't have the scouting department.
The same Fiesta bowl where Texas scored 3 points in the entire 1st half? If anything, that was the first defense to make Colt look human.
Although I was good with him being picked in the 3rd round. I really feel the injury cost him quite a bit in terms of NFL production. Despite not being the biggest QB, Colt had a pretty live arm at Texas. Was never the same in Cleveland.
He had 414 passing yards against a D with guys like Jenkins Laurinaitis Heyward. Impressive game winning drive too
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... how far can the Browns go if this team tries to do it the Patriot way? C'mon we all want the Browns to win games, but is it that hard for this Browns team to win 10 games at least? How great would it be for the Browns to finally make it to the Super Bowl, and win it ?
No... we aren't the Pats. We can't develop their "mindset" or "do it" their way.
We need to develop our own mindset.... our own way.
And by the way ... there is no one, single "Patriot way".
Count me as one who thinks the Patriots will NOT suck without Brady.
Make that two... I expect to see a strong D and ground game.
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Homeless guy didn't have the scouting department.
The same Fiesta bowl where Texas scored 3 points in the entire 1st half? If anything, that was the first defense to make Colt look human.
Although I was good with him being picked in the 3rd round. I really feel the injury cost him quite a bit in terms of NFL production. Despite not being the biggest QB, Colt had a pretty live arm at Texas. Was never the same in Cleveland.
He had 414 passing yards against a D with guys like Jenkins Laurinaitis Heyward. Impressive game winning drive too
He had 414 passing yards against a D with guys like Jenkins Laurinaitis Heyward. Impressive game winning drive too
Feint praise: he actually did better in a Browns uniform than did Brady Quinn.
Passing
JohnnyYear Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 15 8 2-6-0 147 258 57.0 1675 7 2.7 7 2.7 78 61 6.5 5.8 11.4 111.7 74.4 22 167 5.39 4.76 7.9 5 2014 22 CLE qb 2 5 2 0-2-0 18 35 51.4 175 0 0.0 2 5.7 6 32 5.0 2.4 9.7 35.0 42.0 7.3 3 26 3.92 1.55 7.9 1 2015 23 CLE qb 2 10 6 2-4-0 129 223 57.8 1500 7 3.1 5 2.2 72 61 6.7 6.3 11.6 150.0 79.4 54.1 19 141 5.62 5.26 7.9 4 Passing.....Quinn.....Just look at the Cleveland numbers
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 24 20 4-16-0 296 550 53.8 3043 12 2.2 17 3.1 148 59 5.5 4.6 10.3 126.8 64.4 41 236 4.75 3.86 6.9 1 2 2 3 yrs CLE 14 12 3-9-0 184 353 52.1 1902 10 2.8 9 2.5 99 59 5.4 4.8 10.3 135.9 66.8 20 113 4.80 4.25 5.4 1 2 3 1 yr KAN 10 8 1-7-0 112 197 56.9 1141 2 1.0 8 4.1 49 57 5.8 4.2 10.2 114.1 60.1 21 123 4.67 3.20 9.6 -1 2007 23 CLE 10 1 0 3 8 37.5 45 0 0.0 0 0.0 3 18 5.6 5.6 15.0 45.0 56.8 67.0 0 0 5.63 5.63 0.0 0 2008 24 CLE 10 3 3 1-2-0 45 89 50.6 518 2 2.2 2 2.2 24 42 5.8 5.3 11.5 172.7 66.6 46.5 1 9 5.66 5.10 1.1 1 1 1 2009 25 CLE QB 10 10 9 2-7-0 136 256 53.1 1339 8 3.1 7 2.7 72 59 5.2 4.6 9.8 133.9 67.2 42.7 19 104 4.49 3.93 6.9 0 1 2 2012 28 KAN qb 9 10 8 1-7-0 112 197 56.9 1141 2 1.0 8 4.1 49 57 5.8 4.2 10.2 114.1 60.1 26.0 21 123 4.67 3.20 9.6 -1 1 comeback, 2 game-winning drives - full summary -
He had 414 passing yards against a D with guys like Jenkins Laurinaitis Heyward. Impressive game winning drive too
Feint praise: he actually did better in a Browns uniform than did Brady Quinn.
Passing
JohnnyYear Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 15 8 2-6-0 147 258 57.0 1675 7 2.7 7 2.7 78 61 6.5 5.8 11.4 111.7 74.4 22 167 5.39 4.76 7.9 5 2014 22 CLE qb 2 5 2 0-2-0 18 35 51.4 175 0 0.0 2 5.7 6 32 5.0 2.4 9.7 35.0 42.0 7.3 3 26 3.92 1.55 7.9 1 2015 23 CLE qb 2 10 6 2-4-0 129 223 57.8 1500 7 3.1 5 2.2 72 61 6.7 6.3 11.6 150.0 79.4 54.1 19 141 5.62 5.26 7.9 4 Passing.....Quinn.....Just look at the Cleveland numbers
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV Career 24 20 4-16-0 296 550 53.8 3043 12 2.2 17 3.1 148 59 5.5 4.6 10.3 126.8 64.4 41 236 4.75 3.86 6.9 1 2 2 3 yrs CLE 14 12 3-9-0 184 353 52.1 1902 10 2.8 9 2.5 99 59 5.4 4.8 10.3 135.9 66.8 20 113 4.80 4.25 5.4 1 2 3 1 yr KAN 10 8 1-7-0 112 197 56.9 1141 2 1.0 8 4.1 49 57 5.8 4.2 10.2 114.1 60.1 21 123 4.67 3.20 9.6 -1 2007 23 CLE 10 1 0 3 8 37.5 45 0 0.0 0 0.0 3 18 5.6 5.6 15.0 45.0 56.8 67.0 0 0 5.63 5.63 0.0 0 2008 24 CLE 10 3 3 1-2-0 45 89 50.6 518 2 2.2 2 2.2 24 42 5.8 5.3 11.5 172.7 66.6 46.5 1 9 5.66 5.10 1.1 1 1 1 2009 25 CLE QB 10 10 9 2-7-0 136 256 53.1 1339 8 3.1 7 2.7 72 59 5.2 4.6 9.8 133.9 67.2 42.7 19 104 4.49 3.93 6.9 0 1 2 2012 28 KAN qb 9 10 8 1-7-0 112 197 56.9 1141 2 1.0 8 4.1 49 57 5.8 4.2 10.2 114.1 60.1 26.0 21 123 4.67 3.20 9.6 -1 1 comeback, 2 game-winning drives - full summaryFeint praise: he actually did better in a Browns uniform than did Brady Quinn.
I'd turn back if I were you.... 
.jpg.31fb9362634bcb4a2768f82e01243d34.jpg "BrownsfaninPa"){kind=avatar}
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