Mt. Rushmore of Coaches
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Gipper can't put Belichick on this Mount Rushmore because his blatant homerism won't allow it.
He'll ramble on and on and on in response to this, which I'm not going to even bother to respond to, but what I just said is true.
Exactly. Completely true.
Exactly. Completely true.
if you can't argue vs the content, you go woodypeckerhead, even over here?
pretty trash. I just gave facts, and sure enough, you go back to it again?
egad. If a post is wrong, explain why it is, don't just bitch as usual.
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Yeah, I can't take someone seriously who calls themselves an adult but uses words like "hugely" and refers to people as "Buttheadcheck".
Some of you should be forced to show your work on here to your better halves. How embarrassing that would be.
When are you going to show your work and pick your group?
When are you going to show your work and pick your group?
I already did.
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Gipper can't put Belichick on this Mount Rushmore because his blatant homerism won't allow it.
He'll ramble on and on and on in response to this, which I'm not going to even bother to respond to, but what I just said is true.
Exactly. Completely true.
Exactly. Completely true.
Yes, I do Exhibit blatant homerism. I will demonstrate: FUCK MICHIGAN!!
And where are YOUR choices? No, never mind. I know that you don't know enough about the history of the game to have a proper choice. You would probably choose like just Jim Harbaugh and Bieline.....
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When are you going to show your work and pick your group?
I already did.
I already did.
Not in any post that I see on this thread. Picking them in your brain doesn't really reveal anything to the rest of us.
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Gipper can't put Belichick on this Mount Rushmore because his blatant homerism won't allow it.
He'll ramble on and on and on in response to this, which I'm not going to even bother to respond to, but what I just said is true.
Gipper can't put Belichick on this Mount Rushmore because his blatant homerism won't allow it.
No, I just think the guys I chose are better.
He'll ramble on and on and on in response to this, which I'm not going to even bother to respond to, but what I just said is true.
No, I just think the guys I chose are better.
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I already did.
Not in any post that I see on this thread. Picking them in your brain doesn't really reveal anything to the rest of us.
Not in any post that I see on this thread. Picking them in your brain doesn't really reveal anything to the rest of us.
Moderators must have deleted it... Weird.
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Paul Brown won hugely every place he coached.
like Massillon Washington High School. and Paul Brown didn't have Lou Groza in hs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Brown
Brown began his coaching career at Severn School in 1931 before becoming the head football coach at Massillon Washington High School in Massillon, Ohio, where he grew up. His high school teams lost only 10 games in 11 seasons. He was then hired at Ohio State University and coached the school to its first national football championship in 1942. After World War II, he became head coach of the Browns, who won all four AAFC championships before joining the NFL in 1950. Brown coached the Browns to three NFL championships – in 1950, 1954 and 1955 – but was fired in January 1963 amid a power struggle with team owner Art Modell.
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now, let's look at billy buttheadcheck -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick, who was a loser head coach for the Browns - his first head coaching job.
THEN, after being FIRED, he became a head coach with the Jets, but "resigned" after only one day on the job, and went to become the head coach of the Patriots.
Belichick began his coaching career in 1975 and became the defensive coordinator for New York Giants head coach Bill Parcells by 1985. Parcells and Belichick won two Super Bowls together before Belichick left to become the head coach of the Cleveland Browns in 1991. He remained in Cleveland for five seasons but was fired following the team's 1995 season. He then rejoined Parcells, first in New England, where the team lost Super Bowl XXXI, and later with the New York Jets.
After being named head coach of the Jets, Belichick resigned after only one day on the job to accept the head coaching job for the New England Patriots on January 27, 2000.
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and, after inheriting a Patiots team that was 11-5 in 96, in 94, 10-5 in 97, 9-7 in 98, and 8-8 in 99....
buttheadcheck became their head coach, and took them to a losing season - 5-11.
Only after all that, did he learn how not to be too much of a jerkface, to become a successful head coach.
and guess what qb came to the Patriots in Buttheadcheck's FIRST YEAR? yep. Tom Brady.
His high school teams lost only 10 games in 11 seasons. He was then hired at Ohio State University and coached the school to its first national football championship in 1942. After World War II, he became head coach of the Browns, who won all four AAFC championships before joining the NFL in 1950.
Paul Brown is always on the list - he truly was the greatest of all time. I also think Tom Landry was right up there, too - I always did.
"Thomas Wade Landry (September 11, 1924 – February 12, 2000) was an American professional football player and coach. He was the first head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in the National Football League (NFL), a position he held for 29 seasons.
Thomas Wade Landry (September 11, 1924 – February 12, 2000) was an American professional football player and coach. He was the first head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in the National Football League (NFL), a position he held for 29 seasons. During his coaching career, he created many new formations and methods, such as the now popular 4–3 defense, and the "flex defense" system made famous by the Doomsday Defense squads he built during his tenure with the Cowboys. His 29 consecutive years from 1960 to 1988 as the coach of one team is an NFL record,[1] along with his 20 consecutive winning seasons, which is considered to be his most impressive professional accomplishment."
In addition to his record 20 consecutive winning seasons from 1966 to 1985, Landry won two Super Bowl titles (in Super Bowl VI and XII[2]), five NFC titles, and 13 divisional titles. He compiled a 270–178–6 record, the fourth-most wins all-time for an NFL coach, and his 20 career playoff victories are the second most of any coach in NFL history. Landry was also named the NFL Coach of the Year in 1966 and the NFC Coach of the Year in 1975.
"The Great Innovator
Landry developed the now-popular "4-3 defense" while serving as Giants defensive coordinator.[9] It was called "4-3" because it featured four down lineman (two ends and two defensive tackles on either side of the offensive center) and three linebackers — middle, left, and right. The innovation was the middle linebacker. Previously, a lineman was placed over the center. But Landry had this person stand up and move back two yards. The Giants' middle linebacker was the legendary Sam Huff.
Landry built the 4-3 defense around me. It revolutionized defense and opened the door for all the variations of zones and man-to-man coverage, which are used in conjunction with it today. —Sam Huff[10]
When he came to Dallas, Landry refined the 4-3 even further, specifically to counter Lombardi's "run to daylight" strategy. Lombardi's offense was built around sending the running back through any open space, rather than a specific assigned hole. Landry reasoned that the best counter was a defense that blotted out the daylight.[11] The result was the "Flex Defense," which assigned the defenders specific areas of the field to cover. When Landry first implemented it in 1964, fans were initially mystified when they saw the Cowboys defense not swarming to the ball. However, the skeptics were won over when ball carriers invariably ran right into the arms of one of Landry's defenders.[12] The Flex Defense worked so well that Landry had to create an offense to score on it, one which disguised an otherwise simple play with multiple formations.[13]"
From 1966 to 1982, a span of 17 years, Dallas played in 12 NFL or NFC Championship games. Furthermore, the Cowboys appeared in 10 NFC Championship games in the 13-year span from 1970 to 1982. Leading the Cowboys to three Super Bowl appearances in four years between 1975 and 1978, and five in nine years between 1970 and 1978, along with being on television more than any other NFL team, resulted in the Cowboys receiving the label of "America's Team", a title Landry did not appreciate because he felt it would bring on extra motivation from the rest of the league to compete with the Cowboys. He was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1990"
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so, If I only could pick two of the greatest pro football head coaches of all time - I'd take Paul Brown and Tom Landry.
Similarly, I'd pick Ara Parseghian, Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant....as the greatest college head coaches.
lists are subjective - sure.
I know - Knute Rockne - is on the list, but that was before my time. I'm not that old, so....
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Not in any post that I see on this thread. Picking them in your brain doesn't really reveal anything to the rest of us.
Moderators must have deleted it... Weird.
Moderators must have deleted it... Weird.
Very Trumpish of you.
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so, If I only could pick two of the greatest pro football head coaches of all time - I'd take Paul Brown and Tom Landry.
Similarly, I'd pick Ara Parseghian, Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant....as the greatest college head coaches.
lists are subjective - sure.
I know - Knute Rockne - is on the list, but that was before my time. I'm not that old, so....
so, If I only could pick two of the greatest pro football head coaches of all time - I'd take Paul Brown and Tom Landry.
Similarly, I'd pick Ara Parseghian, Woody Hayes, Bear Bryant....as the greatest college head coaches.
lists are subjective - sure.
I know - Knute Rockne - is on the list, but that was before my time. I'm not that old, so....
Interesting trivia: What coaches have won both a College National Championship, and a Pro football championship. Off the top of my head there is:
Paul Brown
Pete Carroll
Jimmy Johnson, I believe
Anyone else?
Edit....Ah! Barry Switzer also.
Some others may have come close, doing fairly well at both levels if not actually winning a title in both, like Dick Vermeil, Bill Walsh, Jim Harbaugh, Don Coryell.
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Another interesting question related to above:
Is there anyone out there now who could go from having won a college title to going pro and giving it a run?
Some guys have tried a hand at it, and failed badly: Steve Spurrier, Chip Kelly, Nick Saban, John McKay, Bud Wilkinson, Frank Kush
I think Chuck Fairbanks gave the NFL a shot.
John Robinson won title at USC, and did coach the Rams fairly well for some years.
Lou Holtz was a failure in the Pros.
Dennis Erikson, coached Seahawks for a while....not that well if I recall.
Another that came close: Bobby Ross. Won national title with Ga. Tech.. ...coached the Chargers to their only Super Bowl appearance.
Could potentially national championship coaches the likes of Urban Meyer, Dabo Sweeney, ...Ed Orgeron? be tempted to give the Pros a try, ala Spurrier et al?
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Another interesting question related to above:
Is there anyone out there now who could go from having won a college title to going pro and giving it a run?
Some guys have tried a hand at it, and failed badly: Steve Spurrier, Chip Kelly, Nick Saban, John McKay, Bud Wilkinson, Frank Kush
I think Chuck Fairbanks gave the NFL a shot.
John Robinson won title at USC, and did coach the Rams fairly well for some years.
Lou Holtz was a failure in the Pros.
Dennis Erikson, coached Seahawks for a while....not that well if I recall.
Another that came close: Bobby Ross. Won national title with Ga. Tech.. ...coached the Chargers to their only Super Bowl appearance.
Could potentially national championship coaches the likes of Urban Meyer, Dabo Sweeney, ...Ed Orgeron? be tempted to give the Pros a try, ala Spurrier et al?
Lou Holtz was a failure in the Pros.
crap. I forgot Lou Holtz - he is also one of the great ones.
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Lou Holtz was a failure in the Pros.
crap. I forgot Lou Holtz - he is also one of the great ones.
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Not in his pro coaching term.
of course - I meant college. He was one of the greatest college coaches.
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Zombo said:
So you are judging Belichick on his four years in Cleveland, where the team rapidly improved from a depleted roster to a playoff winner before the wheels came off with the move... His first year in New England with another depleted roster ... and the year he went 11-5 with Matt Cassell.
And because of those six seasons, you dont want to acknowledge his coaching prowess because he had a HOF qb ... even though he won a Super Bowl when that Qb was just a game manager in his second year, then won two more super bowls, then 10 years later won three more Super Bowls, including one where Brady was on the bench ready to concede defeat when his defense intercepted the ball at the one yard line.
He has taken 9 different 53 man rosters, which he himself drafted, built and coached, to the Super Bowl, but since they all had the same QB, who he also drafted and coached, he's a lesser coach than Shula who won 2 out 6 championships, and never won one with Dan Marino, the best passer of his era?
This is why I was afraid to ask. I knew you would have some biased, bullshit reason for ranking him where you did, and you would dig in and not give ground and just make it a frustrating endeavor to try and discuss it with you.
Paul Brown and Otto Graham were both the best of their era. And Bill Belichick and Tom Brady were both the best if their era. They won championships together ... not in spite of each other.
Z
BB was/is a PR nightmare and when he cut Kosar, it riled up our fan base.
Yet, he managed to put together a solid defense and was well on his way to doing great things here until Art destroyed it.
He's won with defense, and he's won letting Brady throw 50+times. He's the master of salary cap football.
While I wouldn't expect the Pats in the SB this season, I wouldn't count them out of the playoffs.
BB was/is a PR nightmare and when he cut Kosar, it riled up our fan base.
Yet, he managed to put together a solid defense and was well on his way to doing great things here until Art destroyed it.
He's won with defense, and he's won letting Brady throw 50+times. He's the master of salary cap football.
While I wouldn't expect the Pats in the SB this season, I wouldn't count them out of the playoffs.
as i have said I was at the 50 front row in Seattle the week after Bernie was let go and trust me I didnt shut up the entire game cussing at Bill (we got are ass's kicked) bill turned around a few time's disgusted with me
but you know I am not that kind of sports fan and was pissed at myself for acting that way and all ways wanted to apologize But damnit I was pissed
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Here is how I look at the career's of NFL's winning coaches. If your going to base a coach on most games won per season, that includes all playoff and Super Bowls , then you have to include the coaches from the earliest years. There was no Super Bowls prior to 1967. So the highest level a team can earn is the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP. and back in those early years, they only played 12-14 games. So if you took George Halas, Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, and Bill Bellicheck's total career win's, only the top 4 coaches with most wins should be honored as a member on Mt. Rushmore.
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Here is how I look at the career's of NFL's winning coaches. If your going to base a coach on most games won per season, that includes all playoff and Super Bowls , then you have to include the coaches from the earliest years. There was no Super Bowls prior to 1967. So the highest level a team can earn is the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP. and back in those early years, they only played 12-14 games. So if you took George Halas, Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, and Bill Bellicheck's total career win's, only the top 4 coaches with most wins should be honored as a member on Mt. Rushmore.
Here is how I look at the career's of NFL's winning coaches. If your going to base a coach on most games won per season, that includes all playoff and Super Bowls , then you have to include the coaches from the earliest years. There was no Super Bowls prior to 1967. So the highest level a team can earn is the NFL CHAMPIONSHIP. and back in those early years, they only played 12-14 games. So if you took George Halas, Paul Brown, Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Don Shula, Chuck Noll, and Bill Bellicheck's total career win's, only the top 4 coaches with most wins should be honored as a member on Mt. Rushmore.
Didn't you just sort of contradict yourself? You conclude by saying that only those with the most wins, including postseason, should be on Mt. Rushmore.......but then you preface it by acknowledging that in early years, they only played 12-14 games per season. Plus, recall that prior to 1966 (not 1967) ....there was only ever one single postseason game played...the NFL or AFL championship game. So now, a team (coach) can win as many as 3-4 playoff games in a single season....which obviously would ramp up the number of postseason wins current coaches make.
You seem to be touting just the "most total wins" as the criteria. What about "best winning pct." Equally as viable, wouldn't you say? That would put Guy Chamberlain, John Madden and George Allen on the mountain (along with Lombardi). But, of course, I think the analysis has to go beyond either of those statistics...though they are both heavy factors.
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