***Official Gameday Thread Browns at Ravens
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When the hell did this douche get here?
Guess the better question is, why is he still here? Is this Ghoolie’s new persona?Just a Poli-board bottom-feeder who wandered up into the sunlight...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It’s all coaching and ownership. We had a coach that knew how to win but couldn’t wait to fire him and get back to our losing ways.
The 21st century definition of suckage? The Cleveland BrownsIt’s all coaching and ownership. We had a coach that knew how to win but couldn’t wait to fire him and get back to our losing ways.
Are you referring to Gregg Williams?
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I know this is hard, but this is a new coaching staff coming off a very trying offseason.
I know they looked horrible, but hopefully they rebound in the next few weeks. I'm not saying they will, but I'm going to try to give them a bit of time to really judge how things look.
OBJ, on the other hand? This is just Groundhog Day with him at this point.
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No preseason, new offense, against a top defense. The article doesn’t bother me
Didn't seem to bother Ron Rivera and his team.... Hell, they don't even have a name.
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Talking about this with a kid I used to play with (Oline) he's big on film.
Right now I'd say 75% of the offensive woes are on Baker. That first pick was busch league and I'll be diving into that later. But the pre-determination is a very big concern.
Leaving clean pockets was a huge issue last year. And he seemed to be late and behind on a lot of receivers yesterday.
He threw to a ton of wide open WRs at OU. Lincoln Riley is/was a great play caller and of course these aren’t BigXII Defenses either
Are you blaming the play caller? WRs? Oline?
Leaving clean pockets was a huge issue last year. And he seemed to be late and behind on a lot of receivers yesterday.
He threw to a ton of wide open WRs at OU. Lincoln Riley is/was a great play caller and of course these aren’t BigXII Defenses either
Are you blaming the play caller? WRs? Oline?
Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker.
Yes, Riley is a hell of a coach. And you'll notice one of the first things he brought back to the OU attack was making play action the foundation of the offense. Doesn't matter if it was lateral or downhill action, Baker rarely threw downfield unless it involved a play fake first. And when he would attempt without...? Well, you'll have to find my pre-draft assessment of him somewhere I here, but I remember not being kind to how he poorly read coverage off a straight drop.
Blame? I'm not looking for blame at this moment, I'm looking for fixes. The oline wasn't the biggest issue, and It's hard to just "assign" blame to the WR's if you can't be on the same page as your QB. If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things? That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.
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Warning - longer post, with pics. I said I wanted to get into that first INT by Baker, so here it is.
Below is pre-snap.
Balt. is showing cover 1 here. The weakside edge is wide for a speed rush and the linebacker aligned outside shoulder of Kareem to take away any flare, flat or outlet. Boundary corner (looks like Marlon) showing bump and the field side safety at 8 yards inside shoulder of our #2 (Landry) Middle fielder is...well, middle field. Right between the hashes. Screams man coverage.
That's neat, Baker. You think you have it...but here's the shift.
Jimmy Smith is in bail, Humphrey, while not in bail, is opening his hips and positioning to drive inside. The middle field safety is outside the hash and the FS is dropping down the right hash eyes inside. It ALMOST looks like quarters. But then I realized the depth of the CB's is the tell and, the now strong safety, getting width like he's playing a half field. This is now cover 6. I know I said cover 3 in an earlier thread, but I didn't get a chance to really pause a frame and look. Granted, it isn't always so clear without the All-22, but it's fairly obvious.
To complete the exotic look, you have front 7 alternate the underneath zone drop responsibilities.
Yep, cover 6.
Landry on the early out, in stride, probably catches this pass and turns it up 6 yards to contend for the first down. This should have been pretty pitch and catch IMHO.
Here's the fun part and one of the reasons why learning an offense and new language is a problem. Baker is doing his final pre-snap look, and that's at 10 seconds. If you really want to be great, that huddle needs to be broke and you need to be giving a dummy count seeing who declares. Especially on 3rd and 10 with much less crowd noise (yes, I"m aware they pumped some in) than what you've had to deal with in your career. More importantly, and this speaks to the shortened off-season, and how transition coaching staffs and all that entails can take a good deal of time... If you want to see your QB taking that extra few seconds pre-snap, maybe give a dummy count and see who will declare, then you need to be to that line at 14 seconds or so. Which mean your playcaller needs to be a step ahead and in rhythm (yes, play calling ryhtmn is a thing), your QB needs to be spitting out the language like Eminem does bars, and your entire offense has to make what they hear second nature. Your QB needs to be comfortable thinking that, even at 10 seconds or so, he has all the time in the world.
Rodgers might be my favorite at giving a false count and see who jumps early. The Pack offense routinely snaps the ball 5 > seconds. Browns are doing it at 9. Doesn't sound like much, but it's a lifetime at this level of football. Here's some Rodgers cadence clips for good measure. Check his body language, voice inflection, eyes and obvious, the play clock.
That is a master at the controls.
What bothers me is something that I don't have a word for. Is it arrogance? Is it ignorance? Is it mindlessness? But there were nice little tells on where you might want to begin working your progression. Which was when you see the field corner start to turn his hips, get depth and peeking back inside. That's also a LOT of space to give Landry, one of the best in the business, to work with against a safety. IF Baker read man coverage, why he wouldn't choose to work with the most space possible, utilizing a top 20 WR combo and staying away from one of the better young CB's in the NFL... is beyond me?! Especially when you are looking for little tips and clues to dissect this defense in real time. Why Baker immediately looked in to Hodge on the slant ... I just don't know. But the Ravens see on tape something that has been true for the last 2 years, Baker LOVES that weakside slant. And you have teams specifically scheming to turn that look into a turnover.
Remember what Earl Thomas said when he came to Baltimore? It's the most complex football machine he had ever been apart of. They disguise coverage very well. But that's the nice part - you KNOW you're being bluffed pre-snap the majority of the time in passing downs and distances. So if you know you're being lied to, you should take that extra second to double check where you're going with that ball. Both pre and post snap.
That's the first turnover, and I know the further I go into this game... the less I'm going to like. But I believe our coaching staff will soon realize the limitations on Baker may not be something he grows beyond. If I'm Stef, the first thing I'm putting the axe to are the empty sets.
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Warning - longer post, with pics. I said I wanted to get into that first INT by Baker, so here it is.
Below is pre-snap.
Balt. is showing cover 1 here. The weakside edge is wide for a speed rush and the linebacker aligned outside shoulder of Kareem to take away any flare, flat or outlet. Boundary corner (looks like Marlon) showing bump and the field side safety at 8 yards inside shoulder of our #2 (Landry) Middle fielder is...well, middle field. Right between the hashes. Screams man coverage.
That's neat, Baker. You think you have it...but here's the shift.
Jimmy Smith is in bail, Humphrey, while not in bail, is opening his hips and positioning to drive inside. The middle field safety is outside the hash and the FS is dropping down the right hash eyes inside. It ALMOST looks like quarters. But then I realized the depth of the CB's is the tell and, the now strong safety, getting width like he's playing a half field. This is now cover 6. I know I said cover 3 in an earlier thread, but I didn't get a chance to really pause a frame and look. Granted, it isn't always so clear without the All-22, but it's fairly obvious.
To complete the exotic look, you have front 7 alternate the underneath zone drop responsibilities.
Yep, cover 6.
Landry on the early out, in stride, probably catches this pass and turns it up 6 yards to contend for the first down. This should have been pretty pitch and catch IMHO.
Here's the fun part and one of the reasons why learning an offense and new language is a problem. Baker is doing his final pre-snap look, and that's at 10 seconds. If you really want to be great, that huddle needs to be broke and you need to be giving a dummy count seeing who declares. Especially on 3rd and 10 with much less crowd noise (yes, I"m aware they pumped some in) than what you've had to deal with in your career. More importantly, and this speaks to the shortened off-season, and how transition coaching staffs and all that entails can take a good deal of time... If you want to see your QB taking that extra few seconds pre-snap, maybe give a dummy count and see who will declare, then you need to be to that line at 14 seconds or so. Which mean your playcaller needs to be a step ahead and in rhythm (yes, play calling ryhtmn is a thing), your QB needs to be spitting out the language like Eminem does bars, and your entire offense has to make what they hear second nature. Your QB needs to be comfortable thinking that, even at 10 seconds or so, he has all the time in the world.
Rodgers might be my favorite at giving a false count and see who jumps early. The Pack offense routinely snaps the ball 5 > seconds. Browns are doing it at 9. Doesn't sound like much, but it's a lifetime at this level of football. Here's some Rodgers cadence clips for good measure. Check his body language, voice inflection, eyes and obvious, the play clock.
That is a master at the controls.
What bothers me is something that I don't have a word for. Is it arrogance? Is it ignorance? Is it mindlessness? But there were nice little tells on where you might want to begin working your progression. Which was when you see the field corner start to turn his hips, get depth and peeking back inside. That's also a LOT of space to give Landry, one of the best in the business, to work with against a safety. IF Baker read man coverage, why he wouldn't choose to work with the most space possible, utilizing a top 20 WR combo and staying away from one of the better young CB's in the NFL... is beyond me?! Especially when you are looking for little tips and clues to dissect this defense in real time. Why Baker immediately looked in to Hodge on the slant ... I just don't know. But the Ravens see on tape something that has been true for the last 2 years, Baker LOVES that weakside slant. And you have teams specifically scheming to turn that look into a turnover.
Remember what Earl Thomas said when he came to Baltimore? It's the most complex football machine he had ever been apart of. They disguise coverage very well. But that's the nice part - you KNOW you're being bluffed pre-snap the majority of the time in passing downs and distances. So if you know you're being lied to, you should take that extra second to double check where you're going with that ball. Both pre and post snap.
That's the first turnover, and I know the further I go into this game... the less I'm going to like. But I believe our coaching staff will soon realize the limitations on Baker may not be something he grows beyond. If I'm Stef, the first thing I'm putting the axe to are the empty sets.
Warning - longer post, with pics. I said I wanted to get into that first INT by Baker, so here it is.
Thanks tia-enjoyed your in depth look at this very much, but ran out of the little "likes" for the day already.
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Thanks tia-enjoyed your in depth look at this very much, but ran out of the little "likes" for the day already.
I'm going to treat this like I'm a bookie that you owe a debt too. I understand, times is tough out there. I'll expect you to be back tomorrow with double.
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All you people that are seen and blaming OBJ for this need to look in the mirror and save yourselves I see a fucktard. The score was 38 to 6. When did OBJ play defense? Don’t care that he made a mistake or two he was not responsible for giving up 38 points. And is this offense so inept that it can’t make up for a dropped pass or two? Where were all the other weapons? Chub hunt Hooper Landry?
I'm amazed by those who think everything in this world is black and white. "Gee, if you can blame anything else for sucking, then OBJ must not be one of the problems." That is like preschool level thinking. The two are not mutually exclusive: You see, OBJ can suck at the same time when other players/coaches suck. Don't you grasp that? An OBJ brings much more darkness than just dropping a pass. And in a mere few weeks he will showcase his twisted attitude. Someone could say it's a real sh--y attitude.
I'm amazed by those who think everything in this world is black and white. "Gee, if you can blame anything else for sucking, then OBJ must not be one of the problems." That is like preschool level thinking. The two are not mutually exclusive: You see, OBJ can suck at the same time when other players/coaches suck. Don't you grasp that? An OBJ brings much more darkness than just dropping a pass. And in a mere few weeks he will showcase his twisted attitude. Someone could say it's a real sh--y attitude.
I do see that that was my point that you’re pointing all the fingers at OBJ when the whole rest of the team sucked swamp water. I am not saying he didn’t suck too but people act like 38 to 6 loss was all on his shoulders
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Thanks tia-enjoyed your in depth look at this very much, but ran out of the little "likes" for the day already.
I'm going to treat this like I'm a bookie that you owe a debt too. I understand, times is tough out there. I'll expect you to be back tomorrow with double.
-
Thanks tia-enjoyed your in depth look at this very much, but ran out of the little "likes" for the day already.
I'm going to treat this like I'm a bookie that you owe a debt too. I understand, times is tough out there. I'll expect you to be back tomorrow with double.
I'm going to treat this like I'm a bookie that you owe a debt too. I understand, times is tough out there. I'll expect you to be back tomorrow with double.
Hey tia did you catch the Broncos-Titans game? One thing that Tannehill did was pull the Def offsides at a crucial point and the commentator said that the best pro QBs
in the NFL in the empty stadium environment were doing what great experienced pro QBs do, double counts and hard counts.
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Ditto on the analysis, but...
I just can't help but think Baker's issue is a simple one... namely that he's no longer playing football. Now he's a professional QB with a job.
Think back 2 years when he was younger and dumber and fuller of... think back another year to OU... even in big games like in Columbus he was playing... he was an ass and a poor winer, but he was playing a game. He was was cocksure... he was unflappable... he believed in himself.
Now with a job in a bigger faster league he just playing scared to screw up... and so naturally that's what he does. He's playing "tight".
By my recollection he cut loose only three throws on Sunday. Two were on the run (not by design) when he couldn't think he just reacted... and played a little ball.
Somehow he's got to find the fun again... and Stef needs to help him find it.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm amazed by those who think everything in this world is black and white. "Gee, if you can blame anything else for sucking, then OBJ must not be one of the problems." That is like preschool level thinking. The two are not mutually exclusive: You see, OBJ can suck at the same time when other players/coaches suck. Don't you grasp that? An OBJ brings much more darkness than just dropping a pass. And in a mere few weeks he will showcase his twisted attitude. Someone could say it's a real sh--y attitude.
I do see that that was my point that you’re pointing all the fingers at OBJ when the whole rest of the team sucked swamp water. I am not saying he didn’t suck too but people act like 38 to 6 loss was all on his shoulders
I do see that that was my point that you’re pointing all the fingers at OBJ when the whole rest of the team sucked swamp water. I am not saying he didn’t suck too but people act like 38 to 6 loss was all on his shoulders
Well, I don't put it all on OBJ, but he didn't help. There is something inherently wrong with this team. Did you notice the body language?
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I do see that that was my point that you’re pointing all the fingers at OBJ when the whole rest of the team sucked swamp water. I am not saying he didn’t suck too but people act like 38 to 6 loss was all on his shoulders
Well, I don't put it all on OBJ, but he didn't help. There is something inherently wrong with this team. Did you notice the body language?
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I know this is hard, but this is a new coaching staff coming off a very trying offseason.
I know they looked horrible, but hopefully they rebound in the next few weeks. I'm not saying they will, but I'm going to try to give them a bit of time to really judge how things look.
OBJ, on the other hand? This is just Groundhog Day with him at this point.
I know this is hard, but this is a new coaching staff coming off a very trying offseason.
I know they looked horrible, but hopefully they rebound in the next few weeks. I'm not saying they will, but I'm going to try to give them a bit of time to really judge how things look.
OBJ, on the other hand? This is just Groundhog Day with him at this point.
Soooooooo, I went back and watched a couple things. I wanted to see if Baker missed OBJ as many times as I thought. Unfortunately, he did. There were two deep-ish throws down the middle that Baker threw behind OBJ, and one should have resulted in a pick but OBJ did enough to disrupt the play. These were the exact throws Lamar Jackson made with ease. There were multiple other times where Baker appeared to be looking right at an open guy but didn't pull the trigger. THAT'S what concerns me.
Baker's struggles had very little to do with knowledge of the offense. You don't have to be knowledgeable to make an accurate throw. To hit your release valve for 6 yards on 2nd and 10. To find your bazillion dollar TE for more than FIFTEEN FREAKING YARDS.
Baker didn't just look bad, he WAS bad, and I'm not sure he's redeemable. If you can't make intermediate throws down the seam or across the middle, you can't play QB. The really sad thing is that he used to be KNOWN for those passes. Whatever is wrong with Baker is between his ears, and I don't know if that's fixable. He was truly worse than people are saying, and I'm not sure what to do next.
Baker will likely be down in a good chunk of games this year. At this point, I literally have no idea who our linebackers are going to be because Phillips is gone for the year (I assume). The Ravens had people running WIDE open Sunday, and even when people were covered they STILL made every catch. Our offense is not designed to come from behind, so we're going to need our defense to simply find a way to keep us in it until our offense (ahem, our QUARTERBACK) finds his footing....or God help us...gets replaced.
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I do see that that was my point that you’re pointing all the fingers at OBJ when the whole rest of the team sucked swamp water. I am not saying he didn’t suck too but people act like 38 to 6 loss was all on his shoulders
Well, I don't put it all on OBJ, but he didn't help. There is something inherently wrong with this team. Did you notice the body language?
Well, I don't put it all on OBJ, but he didn't help. There is something inherently wrong with this team. Did you notice the body language?
Bingo. And it isn't about the coaches, nor the owner. We saw not a shred of difference in this team yesterday from Freddies team, nor Hues team.
There is no way a team should be this bad for this long.
I do see that that was my point that you’re pointing all the fingers at OBJ when the whole rest of the team sucked swamp water. I am not saying he didn’t suck too but people act like 38 to 6 loss was all on his shoulders
He's supposed to be a great player.
Great players have had this tendency at times to carry a team when they suck.
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This article about how bad Baker played and you're not going to like it.
This article about how bad Baker played and you're not going to like it.
Seems he picked up where he left off last year.
Does this mean we have the worst QB in the division?
...again.?
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I'm going to treat this like I'm a bookie that you owe a debt too. I understand, times is tough out there. I'll expect you to be back tomorrow with double.
Hey tia did you catch the Broncos-Titans game? One thing that Tannehill did was pull the Def offsides at a crucial point and the commentator said that the best pro QBs
in the NFL in the empty stadium environment were doing what great experienced pro QBs do, double counts and hard counts.
Hey tia did you catch the Broncos-Titans game? One thing that Tannehill did was pull the Def offsides at a crucial point and the commentator said that the best pro QBs
in the NFL in the empty stadium environment were doing what great experienced pro QBs do, double counts and hard counts.
I did not, but I'll be sure to go back and watch.
Ditto on the analysis, but...
I just can't help but think Baker's issue is a simple one... namely that he's no longer playing football. Now he's a professional QB with a job.
Think back 2 years when he was younger and dumber and fuller of... think back another year to OU... even in big games like in Columbus he was playing... he was an ass and a poor winer, but he was playing a game. He was was cocksure... he was unflappable... he believed in himself.
Now with a job in a bigger faster league he just playing scared to screw up... and so naturally that's what he does. He's playing "tight".
By my recollection he cut loose only three throws on Sunday. Two were on the run (not by design) when he couldn't think he just reacted... and played a little ball.
Somehow he's got to find the fun again... and Stef needs to help him find it.
I honestly have to disagree... To an extent.
The throw I just pointing out is probably the best example of just "cutting loose". There is a time and a place for that - Russel Wilson is the best example. But you also need to have fun while methodically working within the structure of the offense v what the defense has shown.
Otherwise you just want to grip it and rip it every down and that does make you another Johnny Manziel.
Baker needs to play with a measure of control and also know when to be the gun slinger off script. If he only functions as the latter, then he'll never be a solution to the franchise without being the former as well.
Some of those poor throws Sunday to open receivers were him just cutting too loose. As a result, he puts too much into his throw and it sails. Yes, it's a thing.
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Leaving clean pockets was a huge issue last year. And he seemed to be late and behind on a lot of receivers yesterday.
He threw to a ton of wide open WRs at OU. Lincoln Riley is/was a great play caller and of course these aren’t BigXII Defenses either
Are you blaming the play caller? WRs? Oline?
Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker.
Yes, Riley is a hell of a coach. And you'll notice one of the first things he brought back to the OU attack was making play action the foundation of the offense. Doesn't matter if it was lateral or downhill action, Baker rarely threw downfield unless it involved a play fake first. And when he would attempt without...? Well, you'll have to find my pre-draft assessment of him somewhere I here, but I remember not being kind to how he poorly read coverage off a straight drop.
Blame? I'm not looking for blame at this moment, I'm looking for fixes. The oline wasn't the biggest issue, and It's hard to just "assign" blame to the WR's if you can't be on the same page as your QB. If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things? That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.
Blame? I'm not looking for blame at this moment, I'm looking for fixes. The oline wasn't the biggest issue, and It's hard to just "assign" blame to the WR's if you can't be on the same page as your QB.
Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker
If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things? That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.
outstanding worded pair of dilemmas here ^^ Tia.. The same type of stuff the all 22's showed last season too... Tennessee & Ravens 2nd game, saw tons of designed 1st false coverage's. That only gets Baker confused. (The Ghosts) Bake than will panic, not taking his ?'s off 1st read, pulling the ball down, to broken plays or fire drill plays.. ?.. Does our QB room watch our opponents coverage tape?
Imho, Bake has got to get back to his Lincoln Riley tape days. Few on rhythm drops, but mostly back to on rhythm throws. Under center nor Not.. The ball has got to come out on time.. get the widest broom sticks money can buy at practice & get back to the basics of throwing thru windows, not breaking them..There's this thing called '"putting some air & touch under your football pass". Bake has totally lost it, if he ever had it? if it takes a benching? So.. be... it..! #6?
OH-- and than there is this...atta boy ?'s
Aaron Donald’s dominant SNF performance was one of the best from Week 1Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Blame? I'm not looking for blame at this moment, I'm looking for fixes. The oline wasn't the biggest issue, and It's hard to just "assign" blame to the WR's if you can't be on the same page as your QB.
Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker
If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things? That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.
outstanding worded pair of dilemmas here ^^ Tia.. The same type of stuff the all 22's showed last season too... Tennessee & Ravens 2nd game, saw tons of designed 1st false coverage's. That only gets Baker confused. (The Ghosts) Bake than will panic, not taking his ?'s off 1st read, pulling the ball down, to broken plays or fire drill plays.. ?.. Does our QB room watch our opponents coverage tape?
Imho, Bake has got to get back to his Lincoln Riley tape days. Few on rhythm drops, but mostly back to on rhythm throws. Under center nor Not.. The ball has got to come out on time.. get the widest broom sticks money can buy at practice & get back to the basics of throwing thru windows, not breaking them..There's this thing called '"putting some air & touch under your football pass". Bake has totally lost it, if he ever had it? if it takes a benching? So.. be... it..! #6?
OH-- and than there is this...atta boy ?'s
Aaron Donald’s dominant SNF performance was one of the best from Week 1Ghosts and anticipating pressure as opposed to "feeling" pressure has been, and will likely always be a big deal with Baker
If you're reading the coverage right, then how do you adjust to a QB who isn't seeing the same things? That is a very more detailed journey that needs to be fleshed out.
outstanding worded pair of dilemmas here ^^ Tia.. The same type of stuff the all 22's showed last season too... Tennessee & Ravens 2nd game, saw tons of designed 1st false coverage's. That only gets Baker confused. Bake than will panic, not taking his ?'s off 1st read, pulling the ball down, to broken plays or fire drill plays.. ?.. Does our QB room watch our opponents coverage tape?
Imho, Bake has got to get back to his Lincoln Riley tape days. Few on rhythm drops, but mostly back to on rhythm throws. Under center nor Not.. The ball has got to come out on time.. get the widest broom sticks money can buy at practice & get back to the basics of throwing thru windows, not breaking them..There's this thing called '"putting some air & touch under your football pass". Bake has totally lost it, if he ever had it? if it takes a benching? So.. be... it..! #6?
OH-- and than there is this...atta boy ?'s
Aaron Donald’s dominant SNF performance was one of the best from Week 1Larry O is fine... everyone else around him is garbage.. And Myles Garrett still has no POSITIVE effect on the outcome of games.. He's NOT a game changer by any stretch of the imagination..,,,,
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