Kiper's Big Board
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@shepwrite said:
Forced to choose, with Titus Brown and Marcus Benard competing to start opposite Wimbley, I'd say we're looking for a 3-4 OLB in round one.Unfortunately, I'm not sure that many of the top 3-4 OLB prospects will be able to pass Mangini's character standards.
Greg Hardy (#16) has an inconsistent motor and is hurt a lot. Right now, he's rehabbing a foot injury that plagued him last year and was re-agrravated when he got into a car accident this spring.
Sergio Kindle (#23) is a great athlete and a promising pass rusher, but he got busted for a DUI a few years ago. This summer, he was involved in a bizarre incident where he crashed his car into an apartment building, then didn't report it to the police until the next day. I think it's reasonable to assume that booze was involved.
Jerry Hughes (#18) could be the guy; I just haven't seen enough of him to have an opinion on him.
Brandon Graham (#25) is a guy I really like, but I'm not sure he's a 3-4 OLB. His stumpy build makes him look less athletic than he really is, but I still think he's less an "awesome athlete," more a great hustle player.
Here are some clips of Graham. He's #55, plays LE (opposite the right tackle).
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@jadbf said:
And of those DE's the prototypical 3-4 DE?Gerald McCoy (#4), Ndamukong Suh (#5), and Arthur Jones (#11) are the main guys to look at.
McCoy's unbelievably quick off the snap. His best fit may be as a penetrating 4-3 d-tackle, but he should draw interest from 3-4 teams.
(McCoy's #93)
Suh may be a more natural fit as a 3-4 end. He's great at shedding blocks but needs to prove that he's more than a one year wonder. Before Bo Pellini came to Nebraska, "House of Spears" was a rather average player (some say he was playing through a knee injury).
(Suh's #93)
Jones is mz the pussy's hero. He was absolutely dominant during the ND-Syracuse game last year. He should be a 1st round pick, but he needs to prove he can do more as a pass rusher (only 5 career sacks).
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Not a big of Dunlap, at least not yet. His physical tools are beyond impressive, but the guy doesn't appear comfortable rushing with his hand down. He seems to prefer standing up & running straight at a guard. That bulldozes college o-linemen, but he'll need to do more to be successful at the next level.
On a perhaps related note, he plays with too high a pad level. For a guy that big & athletic, he gets knocked back by fullbacks way too frequently.
He has #1 pick potential but could easily go the way of Calais Campbell & Michael Johnson.
Aloysius said:
[Dunlap] has #1 pick potential but could easily go the way of Calais Campbell & Michael Johnson.who?
Campbell and Johnson are athletic d-linemen who were projected to be top 5 picks but then fell in the draft when they didn't play up to their hype. Campbell dropped to the 2nd round of the '08 draft and is currently competing for a starting job with the Cardinals. Johnson was picked by the Bengals in the 3rd round of the '09 draft and has had a very impressive
drafttraining camp, though he got pushed around a lot in their first preseason game.To be fair, Dunlap's younger than both of those guys. If he doesn't impress this year, he could always stay in school another year.
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The college football season starts before the NFL does. Draft talk's simply an extension of what we obsess over on Saturdays.
And if you want to have a vaguely informed opinion when discussing this stuff in April, it helps to start familiarizing yourself with some of the top guys now.
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@inspecta said:
I have no idea how you guys can talk draft when we are on the cusp of a brand new season.....not a knock or anything, I just find it fascinating how you draftniks go 365 at this shit....It's always nice to have a list of guys to keep an eye on. It's a nice icing to the cake that is College Football. Then there are the guys who come out of (almost) nowhere, which adds some decorative toppings to the cake.
-Al
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@inspecta said:
I can buy that, and understand where you're coming from. I guess I'm a bit stubborn against college football because it could be so great if they only put in a playoff system. Yet every year in december we have the same tv analysis's yelling at each other about strength of schedule and quality wins and why this team should get to go to this bowl and why that team is overrated and shouldn't be in that bowl.A playoff system would reveal the pretenders real quick.
Well said, 'specta, but I can still enjoy the journey...even if the destination is flawed.
-Al
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Aloysius said:
I found this on another board. Hopefully, one of the guys with ESPN Insider can confirm that it matches what's posted here.I'd never get on the "next year" bandwagon... but if the Browns start out 1-7 this season, somebody's going to start weighing their shot at Carlos Dunlap vs. meaningless wins over Oakland or Jacksonville during the holidays.
Dunlap is a monster. For those who haven't paid much attention to him, think Richard Seymour with speed. Julius Peppers plus 20 lbs. (any other ridiculous superlatives to heap on a 20 year old kid?) The guy is a physical marvel. If he performs anywhere near his capability, and stays healthy, he'll be coveted by every defensive coordinator in the league - 3-4/4-3 no matter.
Unfortunately, you're going to have to have the #2 or #3 pick to get him.
But, I'd rather see the Browns perform well and see if they can get a Sergio Kindle, or Jahvid Best later in the first... why am I talking about the draft in August?
-jj
I'd never get on the "next year" bandwagon... but if the Browns start out 1-7 this season, somebody's going to start weighing their shot at Carlos Dunlap vs. meaningless wins over Oakland or Jacksonville during the holidays.
Dunlap is a monster. For those who haven't paid much attention to him, think Richard Seymour with speed. Julius Peppers plus 20 lbs. (any other ridiculous superlatives to heap on a 20 year old kid?) The guy is a physical marvel. If he performs anywhere near his capability, and stays healthy, he'll be coveted by every defensive coordinator in the league - 3-4/4-3 no matter.
Unfortunately, you're going to have to have the #2 or #3 pick to get him.
But, I'd rather see the Browns perform well and see if they can get a Sergio Kindle, or Jahvid Best later in the first... why am I talking about the draft in August?
-jj
So, he's Courtney Brown then? Amazing, game changing talent if he can just say healthy? You know that's not a good fit for Cleveland.
Also I noticed that Tim Tebow didn't crack the top 25, lol. FULLBACKS NEED LOVE TOO MEL.
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@jadbf said:
And of those DE's the prototypical 3-4 DE?Gerald McCoy (#4), Ndamukong Suh (#5), and Arthur Jones (#11) are the main guys to look at.
McCoy's unbelievably quick off the snap. His best fit may be as a penetrating 4-3 d-tackle, but he should draw interest from 3-4 teams.
(McCoy's #93)
Suh may be a more natural fit as a 3-4 end. He's great at shedding blocks but needs to prove that he's more than a one year wonder. Before Bo Pellini came to Nebraska, "House of Spears" was a rather average player (some say he was playing through a knee injury).
(Suh's #93)
Jones is mz the pussy's hero. He was absolutely dominant during the ND-Syracuse game last year. He should be a 1st round pick, but he needs to prove he can do more as a pass rusher (only 5 career sacks).
Aloysius said:
Jones is mz the pussy's hero. He was absolutely dominant during the ND-Syracuse game last year. He should be a 1st round pick, but he needs to prove he can do more as a pass rusher (only 5 career sacks).Hero's a strong word. Most dominant SU defensive player since Dwight Freeney is more like it.
I'm really hoping he shows the ability to play 3-4 end in the NFL.
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For the fifth consecutive season : and for two decades.........We NEED a MLB worth a damn!!!
Hope we are in a position for...17. Brandon Spikes, LB, Florida: Complete MLB, solid in all areas.
OR
13. *Jonathan Dwyer, RB, Georgia Tech: Power back, adept at breaking off long runs.
and not #1 in the draft
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wat about tim tebow
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wat about tim tebow
wat about tim tebow
He's not up there because he isnt first round talent
What we're seeing here in 2010 is precisely what happened in NE a decade ago. It worked for them then, and it wiill work for us now. Why? Because it's the only way it's ever worked in pro football. Just ask Paul Brown. Or Vince Lombardi. Or Tom Landry. .02, Clemdawg -
Aloysius said:
Jones is mz the pussy's hero. He was absolutely dominant during the ND-Syracuse game last year. He should be a 1st round pick, but he needs to prove he can do more as a pass rusher (only 5 career sacks).Hero's a strong word. Most dominant SU defensive player since Dwight Freeney is more like it.
I'm really hoping he shows the ability to play 3-4 end in the NFL.
mz. said:
Hero's a strong word. Most dominant SU defensive player since Dwight Freeney is more like it.I'm really hoping he shows the ability to play 3-4 end in the NFL.
I need to watch more of Jones, but he seems like a good fit. Just needs to come back strong from that torn pectoral muscle.
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I want Mays.
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I'd never get on the "next year" bandwagon... but if the Browns start out 1-7 this season, somebody's going to start weighing their shot at Carlos Dunlap vs. meaningless wins over Oakland or Jacksonville during the holidays.
Dunlap is a monster. For those who haven't paid much attention to him, think Richard Seymour with speed. Julius Peppers plus 20 lbs. (any other ridiculous superlatives to heap on a 20 year old kid?) The guy is a physical marvel. If he performs anywhere near his capability, and stays healthy, he'll be coveted by every defensive coordinator in the league - 3-4/4-3 no matter.
Unfortunately, you're going to have to have the #2 or #3 pick to get him.
But, I'd rather see the Browns perform well and see if they can get a Sergio Kindle, or Jahvid Best later in the first... why am I talking about the draft in August?
-jj
So, he's Courtney Brown then? Amazing, game changing talent if he can just say healthy? You know that's not a good fit for Cleveland.
Also I noticed that Tim Tebow didn't crack the top 25, lol. FULLBACKS NEED LOVE TOO MEL.
So, he's Courtney Brown then? Amazing, game changing talent if he can just say healthy? You know that's not a good fit for Cleveland.
Also I noticed that Tim Tebow didn't crack the top 25, lol. FULLBACKS NEED LOVE TOO MEL.
I didn't mean to imply that Dunlap has injury problems. He has none as far as I'm aware. I was only stating that if he performs to his capability, and manages to get through his junior year without suffering a serious injury, he's got top 3 pick potential.
-jj
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Not a big of Dunlap, at least not yet. His physical tools are beyond impressive, but the guy doesn't appear comfortable rushing with his hand down. He seems to prefer standing up & running straight at a guard. That bulldozes college o-linemen, but he'll need to do more to be successful at the next level.
On a perhaps related note, he plays with too high a pad level. For a guy that big & athletic, he gets knocked back by fullbacks way too frequently.
He has #1 pick potential but could easily go the way of Calais Campbell & Michael Johnson.
Aloysius said:
Not a big of Dunlap, at least not yet. His physical tools are beyond impressive, but the guy doesn't appear comfortable rushing with his hand down. He seems to prefer standing up & running straight at a guard. That bulldozes college o-linemen, but he'll need to do more to be successful at the next level.On a perhaps related note, he plays with too high a pad level. For a guy that big & athletic, he gets knocked back by fullbacks way too frequently.
He has #1 pick potential but could easily go the way of Calais Campbell & Michael Johnson.
He's still got technique to learn to be sure. As a true sophomore, I don't expect too much. But he's got a ton of physical tools. He just turned 20 in February, and is still growing into his frame. He's listed anywhere from 6'6" to 6'8", depending on who you read. The reality of it seems to be right around 6'7". And he wears 290 lbs like a power forward. He's a killer in the weight room. Word is, his target weight may be 300-305. This kid has a ton of potential. But he has to mature his football skills.
Of course, I still like Campbell. He just had to learn how to work. He was so physically gifted, he didn't have to work at the U. And, I'm not sure anyone ever suggested it to him. That wasn't exactly a bastion of discipline.
I think Johnson's going to turn out to be OK. He's a guy with great tools, but to your point, never really put it together. I think he's going to be another lanky end. If he works his ass off he'll be Derrick Burgess. But I'm thinking he might end up nicked up frequently if he doesn't have the discipline to bulk up. It's hard to say though. He's a great 3rd/4th round pick. That's exactly the kind of chance you want to take.
But, I'm really interested to see Dunlap this season.
-jj
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wat about tim tebow
He's not up there because he isnt first round talent
Dawgfanforever88 said:
He's not up there because he isnt first round talentThat is where you are wrong.
He is first round talent. It just depends on if a team is willing to be the trend setter and scrap all this "WildDawg" stuff and just make it the base O.
Someone is going to do it sooner or later, win, and then everyone is going to be looking for qbs who can fit the new wave of the NFL.
Nobody can tell me Tebow isn't first round talent.
Did i make you happy Alo??
I do admit he might not be drafted there, and that is a shame. If he is there in round 2, the Browns better take him. He is WAY better than ANY qb we have on our team.
He is going to work out from under center a good deal this year just to satisfy the needs of the old school football thinkers.
The era of the drop back QB is about done. You might as well catch the wave early because in 4-5 years, colleges won't have any drop back QBs to recruit.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Dawgfanforever88 said:
He's not up there because he isnt first round talentThat is where you are wrong.
He is first round talent. It just depends on if a team is willing to be the trend setter and scrap all this "WildDawg" stuff and just make it the base O.
Someone is going to do it sooner or later, win, and then everyone is going to be looking for qbs who can fit the new wave of the NFL.
Nobody can tell me Tebow isn't first round talent.
Did i make you happy Alo??
I do admit he might not be drafted there, and that is a shame. If he is there in round 2, the Browns better take him. He is WAY better than ANY qb we have on our team.
He is going to work out from under center a good deal this year just to satisfy the needs of the old school football thinkers.
The era of the drop back QB is about done. You might as well catch the wave early because in 4-5 years, colleges won't have any drop back QBs to recruit.
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mz. said:
Couldn't disagree more. I think the days of drafting shotgun/pistol/spread offense QB prospects in early rounds and trying to convert them to traditional dropback passers is what's dead.Six or seven years from now one of us will be proven wrong.
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It will be you proven wrong 'peen.
The simple fact is that the NFL starting 11 on defenses are WAY too athletic for the "athletic" QB other than the rare exception.
Barring rule changes that change the complexity of the game, the QB's job remains passing the football. Plain and simple.
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