Baker Mayfield
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Do people seem to forget that we used to lose against all the middle of the road teams and even weak teams? But now that Baker plays well enough to beat those teams that is not enough? Not long ago we didn't win a single game and only 1 before that, if we are going to win we have t take baby steps, Let's ride this out and see where the road with Baker leads, we are a ton better than before with Kessler, and all the others,GO BROWNS
Do people seem to forget that we used to lose against all the middle of the road teams and even weak teams? But now that Baker plays well enough to beat those teams that is not enough? Not long ago we didn't win a single game and only 1 before that, if we are going to win we have t take baby steps, Let's ride this out and see where the road with Baker leads, we are a ton better than before with Kessler, and all the others,GO BROWNS
I understand, however the two concepts are not mutually exclusive: Yes, Baker is better than what the Browns have had since Bernie. Agreed. But, at the same time, you would hope that the #1 pick overall in the draft would bring you a QB that is capable of beating teams beyond just the bad ones. He's not a rookie, as Burrow is. He is in his 3rd year. What should be expected of a QB who was the 1st pick overall in his 3rd year? Should he be noticeably improved as he was his rookie season? Is he?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MayfBa00.htm
He has regressed in many areas.
What have other top QBs accomplished from their rookie years to their 3rd? I don't know. Will the Browns roll out a massive extension at this point? Should Baker be paid like a Mahomes? Would that be wise?
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And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
Does someone have a gun to your head, making you read my posts? Then don't. I know your nickname is "Pathetic" around here and I get it, but I don't go around whining about your posts, because that is childish. If I grow weary of your ignorance I can just skip them, no big deal. If my vision makes you insecure, just pass, no reason to cry.
I don't go around whining about your posts
Multiple different people on multiple different threads have had exactly the same reaction to your lack of insight. The shared element in all those discussions? You.
I'll give you one thing - your ridiculousness is inspiring people on this forum to learn to support / respect each other over their shared hatred of you. This happens approximately never.
I'll just leave
If only we were that lucky.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I think we give Baker one more year and then we will know as an organization what to do
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Interesting stat that IMHO changes how we think of "Baker" - as with all things $$, take the personal out of it.. of course we can't make a change until offseason.
Top10 QBR when not pressured; bottom10 when he is. Never seen this disparity before. Still not entirely sure how to process this.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
You see sir, NOBODY has said he is in the Top 5. But you just completely blew up and proved my point in this last message.
Again, YOU said this passes your eye test on accuracy. And in this last message you listed 11 QBs, one of which is listed EIGTH SPOTS BEHIND BAKER in your original post.
But let's go ahead and go off your ASSumption that by year 3 a guy should be Top 5 at his position. Let's use the NFL Top 100 players as a reference.
QB: Lamar, Russell, Mahomes, Brees, Brady. Others who then wouldn't be worth it based on YOUR STATEMENT- Rodgers, Watson, Dak, Cousins Tannehill, J Allen, Kyler (take him out as 2nd year)
RB: McCaffrey, Henry, Cook, Zeke, Barkley. Others- Jones, Chubb, Kamara, Ingram, Gurley, Jacobs (2nd year)
WR: Thomas, Hopkins, Jones, Hill, Evans. Others who aren't "Top 5"- Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, Adams, OBJ, Landry, Lockett, Fitzgerald, Allen, Metcalf (2nd year), Kupp, Robinson
DL: Donald, N Bosa, Jordan, J Bosa, Hunter. Those not Top 5- Clowney, JJ Watt, Jones, Buckner, Casey, Cox, Campbell, MYLES GARRETT, Heyward, Jarrett, Clark
LB: Wagner, Jones, Mack, TJ Watt, Miller. Those unworthy guys- Barrett, Z Smith, Leonard, P Smith, Davis, Warner, Kendricks, Smith, David
DB: Gilmore, Adams, Sherman, Fitzpatrick, Ramsey. Not Top 5- Mathieu, White, Peters, Ryan, Smith, Thomas, Lattimore, Humphrey, Slay, B Baker
Now do you see how ridiculous you sound by using Top 5. And by the way, these are voted on by the PLAYERS. SINCE they have been in the league at least 3 years, by your own words then this is a terrible team
Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Chris Godwin, Devante Adams, Chandler Jones, Myles Garrett, Shaq Barrett, Tredavious White and Marlon Humphrey
All you had to do was admit that you were wrong in equating the entire list as being accurate, but nope, just like you do with Browns players and posts you dug and made it look even worse.
You see sir, NOBODY has said he is in the Top 5. But you just completely blew up and proved my point in this last message.
Again, YOU said this passes your eye test on accuracy. And in this last message you listed 11 QBs, one of which is listed EIGTH SPOTS BEHIND BAKER in your original post.
But let's go ahead and go off your ASSumption that by year 3 a guy should be Top 5 at his position. Let's use the NFL Top 100 players as a reference.
QB: Lamar, Russell, Mahomes, Brees, Brady. Others who then wouldn't be worth it based on YOUR STATEMENT- Rodgers, Watson, Dak, Cousins Tannehill, J Allen, Kyler (take him out as 2nd year)
RB: McCaffrey, Henry, Cook, Zeke, Barkley. Others- Jones, Chubb, Kamara, Ingram, Gurley, Jacobs (2nd year)
WR: Thomas, Hopkins, Jones, Hill, Evans. Others who aren't "Top 5"- Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, Adams, OBJ, Landry, Lockett, Fitzgerald, Allen, Metcalf (2nd year), Kupp, Robinson
DL: Donald, N Bosa, Jordan, J Bosa, Hunter. Those not Top 5- Clowney, JJ Watt, Jones, Buckner, Casey, Cox, Campbell, MYLES GARRETT, Heyward, Jarrett, Clark
LB: Wagner, Jones, Mack, TJ Watt, Miller. Those unworthy guys- Barrett, Z Smith, Leonard, P Smith, Davis, Warner, Kendricks, Smith, David
DB: Gilmore, Adams, Sherman, Fitzpatrick, Ramsey. Not Top 5- Mathieu, White, Peters, Ryan, Smith, Thomas, Lattimore, Humphrey, Slay, B Baker
Now do you see how ridiculous you sound by using Top 5. And by the way, these are voted on by the PLAYERS. SINCE they have been in the league at least 3 years, by your own words then this is a terrible team
Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Chris Godwin, Devante Adams, Chandler Jones, Myles Garrett, Shaq Barrett, Tredavious White and Marlon Humphrey
All you had to do was admit that you were wrong in equating the entire list as being accurate, but nope, just like you do with Browns players and posts you dug and made it look even worse.
I honestly don't grasp what your point is. Somehow, you've managed to conclude I said this is a terrible team....SMH. This team is what their record says it is: can beat bad teams, can't beat the good ones. They will beat most of the Cowboys and Bengals of the league (combined 3 wins) but get curb stomped by the Steelers and Ravens of the league. And that is absolutely a HUGE improvement over the 0-16 and 1-15 type of teams, or even the myriad of 3-13 clubs. I still think their odds are good to make the playoffs. How rare is that the last 22 years? So, enjoy it.
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I don't go around whining about your posts
Multiple different people on multiple different threads have had exactly the same reaction to your lack of insight. The shared element in all those discussions? You.
I'll give you one thing - your ridiculousness is inspiring people on this forum to learn to support / respect each other over their shared hatred of you. This happens approximately never.
I'll just leave
If only we were that lucky.
Multiple different people on multiple different threads have had exactly the same reaction to your lack of insight. The shared element in all those discussions? You.
I'll give you one thing - your ridiculousness is inspiring people on this forum to learn to support / respect each other over their shared hatred of you. This happens approximately never.
If only we were that lucky.
I couldn't help but notice you avoided several assertions here for obvious reasons. But you are referred to as "Pathetic," so, yea, to be expected. No one forces you to read my posts, so just stop doing so. If you weren't born with the God-given skill to have adult conversations based on the Socratic model, so be it. I am not signing up to run the 100-meter sprint in the Olympics, either.
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Boy, I wonder why that pattern of behavior sounds so familiar? Who am I thinking that employs similar thought processes? You know, it is just on the top of my tongue.
Mmmmmm, I think I know yours: The Akron Pink Pooper.
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Multiple different people on multiple different threads have had exactly the same reaction to your lack of insight. The shared element in all those discussions? You.
I'll give you one thing - your ridiculousness is inspiring people on this forum to learn to support / respect each other over their shared hatred of you. This happens approximately never.
If only we were that lucky.
I couldn't help but notice you avoided several assertions here for obvious reasons. But you are referred to as "Pathetic," so, yea, to be expected. No one forces you to read my posts, so just stop doing so. If you weren't born with the God-given skill to have adult conversations based on the Socratic model, so be it. I am not signing up to run the 100-meter sprint in the Olympics, either.
I couldn't help but notice you avoided several assertions here for obvious reasons. But you are referred to as "Pathetic," so, yea, to be expected. No one forces you to read my posts, so just stop doing so. If you weren't born with the God-given skill to have adult conversations based on the Socratic model, so be it. I am not signing up to run the 100-meter sprint in the Olympics, either.
I don't know, I think you should. A lot of us might like to see that.
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You see sir, NOBODY has said he is in the Top 5. But you just completely blew up and proved my point in this last message.
Again, YOU said this passes your eye test on accuracy. And in this last message you listed 11 QBs, one of which is listed EIGTH SPOTS BEHIND BAKER in your original post.
But let's go ahead and go off your ASSumption that by year 3 a guy should be Top 5 at his position. Let's use the NFL Top 100 players as a reference.
QB: Lamar, Russell, Mahomes, Brees, Brady. Others who then wouldn't be worth it based on YOUR STATEMENT- Rodgers, Watson, Dak, Cousins Tannehill, J Allen, Kyler (take him out as 2nd year)
RB: McCaffrey, Henry, Cook, Zeke, Barkley. Others- Jones, Chubb, Kamara, Ingram, Gurley, Jacobs (2nd year)
WR: Thomas, Hopkins, Jones, Hill, Evans. Others who aren't "Top 5"- Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, Adams, OBJ, Landry, Lockett, Fitzgerald, Allen, Metcalf (2nd year), Kupp, Robinson
DL: Donald, N Bosa, Jordan, J Bosa, Hunter. Those not Top 5- Clowney, JJ Watt, Jones, Buckner, Casey, Cox, Campbell, MYLES GARRETT, Heyward, Jarrett, Clark
LB: Wagner, Jones, Mack, TJ Watt, Miller. Those unworthy guys- Barrett, Z Smith, Leonard, P Smith, Davis, Warner, Kendricks, Smith, David
DB: Gilmore, Adams, Sherman, Fitzpatrick, Ramsey. Not Top 5- Mathieu, White, Peters, Ryan, Smith, Thomas, Lattimore, Humphrey, Slay, B Baker
Now do you see how ridiculous you sound by using Top 5. And by the way, these are voted on by the PLAYERS. SINCE they have been in the league at least 3 years, by your own words then this is a terrible team
Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Chris Godwin, Devante Adams, Chandler Jones, Myles Garrett, Shaq Barrett, Tredavious White and Marlon Humphrey
All you had to do was admit that you were wrong in equating the entire list as being accurate, but nope, just like you do with Browns players and posts you dug and made it look even worse.
I honestly don't grasp what your point is. Somehow, you've managed to conclude I said this is a terrible team....SMH. This team is what their record says it is: can beat bad teams, can't beat the good ones. They will beat most of the Cowboys and Bengals of the league (combined 3 wins) but get curb stomped by the Steelers and Ravens of the league. And that is absolutely a HUGE improvement over the 0-16 and 1-15 type of teams, or even the myriad of 3-13 clubs. I still think their odds are good to make the playoffs. How rare is that the last 22 years? So, enjoy it.
I honestly don't grasp what your point is. Somehow, you've managed to conclude I said this is a terrible team....SMH. This team is what their record says it is: can beat bad teams, can't beat the good ones. They will beat most of the Cowboys and Bengals of the league (combined 3 wins) but get curb stomped by the Steelers and Ravens of the league. And that is absolutely a HUGE improvement over the 0-16 and 1-15 type of teams, or even the myriad of 3-13 clubs. I still think their odds are good to make the playoffs. How rare is that the last 22 years? So, enjoy it.
I think to best sum this all up is to say...... We all know the short comings of our beloved Cleveland Browns , at this time , during their development... Yes... the LBer's are whoafully slow.. Banged up and outside of Garrett and his efforts... The defense isn't getting much up on anyone... We're 5-3... Lets revel in that for a change.. Yeah... we have holes... as does every team... Rome wasn't built in week let alone a day... Give Baker the remainder of the season... If he stumbles... So be it... But I'm rooting for the kid... It's apparent we're getting nothing for Njoku.. I guess they'll just let him "walk"... No takers... Hopefully Bryant learned from his mistakes and can transition smoothly...
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You see sir, NOBODY has said he is in the Top 5. But you just completely blew up and proved my point in this last message.
Again, YOU said this passes your eye test on accuracy. And in this last message you listed 11 QBs, one of which is listed EIGTH SPOTS BEHIND BAKER in your original post.
But let's go ahead and go off your ASSumption that by year 3 a guy should be Top 5 at his position. Let's use the NFL Top 100 players as a reference.
QB: Lamar, Russell, Mahomes, Brees, Brady. Others who then wouldn't be worth it based on YOUR STATEMENT- Rodgers, Watson, Dak, Cousins Tannehill, J Allen, Kyler (take him out as 2nd year)
RB: McCaffrey, Henry, Cook, Zeke, Barkley. Others- Jones, Chubb, Kamara, Ingram, Gurley, Jacobs (2nd year)
WR: Thomas, Hopkins, Jones, Hill, Evans. Others who aren't "Top 5"- Godwin, Cooper, Diggs, Adams, OBJ, Landry, Lockett, Fitzgerald, Allen, Metcalf (2nd year), Kupp, Robinson
DL: Donald, N Bosa, Jordan, J Bosa, Hunter. Those not Top 5- Clowney, JJ Watt, Jones, Buckner, Casey, Cox, Campbell, MYLES GARRETT, Heyward, Jarrett, Clark
LB: Wagner, Jones, Mack, TJ Watt, Miller. Those unworthy guys- Barrett, Z Smith, Leonard, P Smith, Davis, Warner, Kendricks, Smith, David
DB: Gilmore, Adams, Sherman, Fitzpatrick, Ramsey. Not Top 5- Mathieu, White, Peters, Ryan, Smith, Thomas, Lattimore, Humphrey, Slay, B Baker
Now do you see how ridiculous you sound by using Top 5. And by the way, these are voted on by the PLAYERS. SINCE they have been in the league at least 3 years, by your own words then this is a terrible team
Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Chris Godwin, Devante Adams, Chandler Jones, Myles Garrett, Shaq Barrett, Tredavious White and Marlon Humphrey
All you had to do was admit that you were wrong in equating the entire list as being accurate, but nope, just like you do with Browns players and posts you dug and made it look even worse.
I honestly don't grasp what your point is. Somehow, you've managed to conclude I said this is a terrible team....SMH. This team is what their record says it is: can beat bad teams, can't beat the good ones. They will beat most of the Cowboys and Bengals of the league (combined 3 wins) but get curb stomped by the Steelers and Ravens of the league. And that is absolutely a HUGE improvement over the 0-16 and 1-15 type of teams, or even the myriad of 3-13 clubs. I still think their odds are good to make the playoffs. How rare is that the last 22 years? So, enjoy it.
I honestly don't grasp what your point is. Somehow, you've managed to conclude I said this is a terrible team....SMH. This team is what their record says it is: can beat bad teams, can't beat the good ones. They will beat most of the Cowboys and Bengals of the league (combined 3 wins) but get curb stomped by the Steelers and Ravens of the league. And that is absolutely a HUGE improvement over the 0-16 and 1-15 type of teams, or even the myriad of 3-13 clubs. I still think their odds are good to make the playoffs. How rare is that the last 22 years? So, enjoy it.
No bud, I didn't conclude that. You are just refusing to see what YOU are saying. I am using YOUR words, not even going off something you post/link.
Example 1: You posted your list. Then you go on to say that by your eyes that it is accurate. I merely pointed out the inaccuracies.
Instead of just saying it's somewhat off (even if you believe that Baker is around the right spot), you LIE and say you said its off some at the VERY TOP, which you didn't say.
Example 2: You said that someone in their 3rd season should be Top 5 at his position. I posted The Top 5 at a multitude of positions to point out that there are MANY guys not in the Top 5 who are still great.
That doesn't mean Baker is anywhere near them, its just pointing out that by YOUR logic that they are the equivalent.
Example 3: I said I would put Baker at about 20, and you then did your little math thing that 20 is still below average. I'll agree there. But you also made a list later on that Baker isn't as good as these 11 guys. One of them was Carson Wentz. And Carson on the list that YOU started this thread with to explain why Baker is below average is ranked 8 spots BELOW Baker.
You see, you are entitled to your opinion. Your premise can even be right, but when you use the wrong source to justify your stance it makes it appear as though you will only use things to support a claim, even if the other parts of the same source contradict what you are saying.
In summary, by your OWN WORDS AND SOURCE, Baker is below average, he is also better than Carson Wentz, but he is also worse than Carson Wentz. And by those same words, if a guy is in his 3rd season they really should be a Top 5 guy at their position. So that disqualified Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Myles Garrett, etc. And the thing is I don't think YOU believe that. But that is WHAT YOU SAID.
P.S.- Again, I can find some other kind of stat to justify him being Top 10, which I don't believe. But as of THIS MOMENT, he is the QB for a team in the playoffs, and according to you his #1 receiver isn't very good, his best and most helpful weapon has been out in 2 of those 3 losses, and his defense has given up the 2nd most points in the league.
But the part that gets me and isn't used enough (if ever), the STEELERS AND RAVENS ARE JUST BETTER.
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Multiple different people on multiple different threads have had exactly the same reaction to your lack of insight. The shared element in all those discussions? You.
I'll give you one thing - your ridiculousness is inspiring people on this forum to learn to support / respect each other over their shared hatred of you. This happens approximately never.
If only we were that lucky.
I couldn't help but notice you avoided several assertions here for obvious reasons. But you are referred to as "Pathetic," so, yea, to be expected. No one forces you to read my posts, so just stop doing so. If you weren't born with the God-given skill to have adult conversations based on the Socratic model, so be it. I am not signing up to run the 100-meter sprint in the Olympics, either.
conversations based on the Socratic model
What part of any of your posts has been socratic?
You are just refusing to see what YOU are saying.
I think he's deliberately not replying to his own words by design. Once or twice - random. Consistently always? Nope, it's his strategy on this forum.
By the time you get back to this thread to reply, he's already 6 assertions beyond what you're replying to! If you look back just through this thread, he makes a 3-line post, your well-reasoned reply is 40 lines, he moves from player analysis to team rankings but calls you incorrect within a 3-line post, etc etc. This would be understandably annoying.. until you consider the reality:
"Icecube" is a near-perfect example of a Gish Gallop. So he's got that going for him!
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Interesting stat that IMHO changes how we think of "Baker" - as with all things $$, take the personal out of it.. of course we can't make a change until offseason.
Top10 QBR when not pressured; bottom10 when he is. Never seen this disparity before. Still not entirely sure how to process this.
Still not entirely sure how to process this.
Easy... Protect him.
The one thing I'd have to look into (and the author should have) is how many QBR-reducing incompletions were throwaways. In general a throwaway is considered a plus-play saving yardage and avoiding forces, yet they are the same as a wormburner on the stat sheet.
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I honestly don't grasp what your point is. Somehow, you've managed to conclude I said this is a terrible team....SMH. This team is what their record says it is: can beat bad teams, can't beat the good ones. They will beat most of the Cowboys and Bengals of the league (combined 3 wins) but get curb stomped by the Steelers and Ravens of the league. And that is absolutely a HUGE improvement over the 0-16 and 1-15 type of teams, or even the myriad of 3-13 clubs. I still think their odds are good to make the playoffs. How rare is that the last 22 years? So, enjoy it.
No bud, I didn't conclude that. You are just refusing to see what YOU are saying. I am using YOUR words, not even going off something you post/link.
Example 1: You posted your list. Then you go on to say that by your eyes that it is accurate. I merely pointed out the inaccuracies.
Instead of just saying it's somewhat off (even if you believe that Baker is around the right spot), you LIE and say you said its off some at the VERY TOP, which you didn't say.
Example 2: You said that someone in their 3rd season should be Top 5 at his position. I posted The Top 5 at a multitude of positions to point out that there are MANY guys not in the Top 5 who are still great.
That doesn't mean Baker is anywhere near them, its just pointing out that by YOUR logic that they are the equivalent.
Example 3: I said I would put Baker at about 20, and you then did your little math thing that 20 is still below average. I'll agree there. But you also made a list later on that Baker isn't as good as these 11 guys. One of them was Carson Wentz. And Carson on the list that YOU started this thread with to explain why Baker is below average is ranked 8 spots BELOW Baker.
You see, you are entitled to your opinion. Your premise can even be right, but when you use the wrong source to justify your stance it makes it appear as though you will only use things to support a claim, even if the other parts of the same source contradict what you are saying.
In summary, by your OWN WORDS AND SOURCE, Baker is below average, he is also better than Carson Wentz, but he is also worse than Carson Wentz. And by those same words, if a guy is in his 3rd season they really should be a Top 5 guy at their position. So that disqualified Aaron Rodgers, Alvin Kamara, Myles Garrett, etc. And the thing is I don't think YOU believe that. But that is WHAT YOU SAID.
P.S.- Again, I can find some other kind of stat to justify him being Top 10, which I don't believe. But as of THIS MOMENT, he is the QB for a team in the playoffs, and according to you his #1 receiver isn't very good, his best and most helpful weapon has been out in 2 of those 3 losses, and his defense has given up the 2nd most points in the league.
But the part that gets me and isn't used enough (if ever), the STEELERS AND RAVENS ARE JUST BETTER.
Instead of just saying it's somewhat off (even if you believe that Baker is around the right spot), you LIE and say you said its off some at the VERY TOP, which you didn't say.
Yes I did, go back and actually read what I wrote.
P.S.- Again, I can find some other kind of stat to justify him being Top 10, which I don't believe. But as of THIS MOMENT, he is the QB for a team in the playoffs,
The playoffs started already? Wow, then Trump won too? Great.
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Instead of just saying it's somewhat off (even if you believe that Baker is around the right spot), you LIE and say you said its off some at the VERY TOP, which you didn't say.
Yes I did, go back and actually read what I wrote.
P.S.- Again, I can find some other kind of stat to justify him being Top 10, which I don't believe. But as of THIS MOMENT, he is the QB for a team in the playoffs,
The playoffs started already? Wow, then Trump won too? Great.
Yes I did, go back and actually read what I wrote.
See EXACTLY there man. I SPECIFICALLY put THIS MOMENT for that exact reason.
Its the same thing as your original list, as in THIS MOMENT. Unless you believe (or wherever you go this list from) that Carr and Tannehill are better than Brady and Brees throughout their careers.
Now, since you want to continue to LIE, let me put you in your place and point them out. I am sure you will try and slither your way out of these words YOU WROTE.
1. That puts him at 27, which is far below average. And looking at the order of the list, it passes my eye test as far as being accurate in determining quality of play. I'd move a few up or down a few spots, but it's pretty on the $.
2. already said it was not the perfect rating system at the very top. And, you go on to admit Baker is realistically around 20th...there are 32 starting QBs, plus a few who later became starters later. If Baker is 20th, that would put him at below average. So, while claiming to disagree with the premise you then conclude the same thing - that Baker is below average.
3.
You got that part right. It's just not that important to me. These are just anonymous names in cyberspace about a sport that, come the end of the day, isn't that meaningful. It is entertainment, as is posting on sports message boards.
I don't have the time or desire to "prove things" on the level of a court of law. As a matter of fact. I would normally base my assessment purely on the "eye test" and leave it at that, not even bothering to go into data such as QB rating. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to support previous opinions. But at the end of the day, of you use a first overall pick on any player, they really should be at least top 5 amongst their position by their 3rd season, not even in a debate about being at least average. If you think Baker is better than all but 4 QBs, then God bless, son. You have the right to your opinion. Mahomes, Russell, Rogers, Brady, Big Ben, Dak, Brees, Wentz, Carr, Herbert, Murray, etc. may not agree, but hey man, we all have our opinions.
4. I honestly don't grasp what your point is. Somehow, you've managed to conclude I said this is a terrible team....SMH. This team is what their record says it is: can beat bad teams, can't beat the good ones. They will beat most of the Cowboys and Bengals of the league (combined 3 wins) but get curb stomped by the Steelers and Ravens of the league. And that is absolutely a HUGE improvement over the 0-16 and 1-15 type of teams, or even the myriad of 3-13 clubs. I still think their odds are good to make the playoffs. How rare is that the last 22 years? So, enjoy it.
Now there is EVERY REPLY to me in this thread, and you did the exact things I said. And while I am not a big political person, you brought it up. Your original list there is like looking at a poll and saying "Donald Trump is going to win Florida, passes the eye test to me." Of course that same poll said he was going to win Virginia and California. And that poll also said that Pennsylvania and Georgia were going to be close.
So I will say it AGAIN, your list is closer to right than wrong ON BAKER. But when you use THAT LIST as justification with the other BAD parts it makes THAT LIST a POOR SOURCE. And when you add in YOUR STATEMENT that Wentz is better than Baker, but your OWN SOURCE invalidates that, then that is the definition of a CONTRADICTION.
And when you add ZERO context to assertions it makes you look like an imbecile.
Want an example? Why sure. Saying you would expect a 3rd year player to be a Top 5 player. Brady, Brees, Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson. Baker was NEVER going to be better than them. But let's take it a step further. Obviously a lot of drafting is based in NEED. The biggest need for the Browns then was a QB. They had the #1 pick. Now since you know SO MUCH, which one of those QBs in that draft is a Top 5 QB now? I won't even make you factor in system, etc. Baker? Nope he's below average. Darnold? Nope, he didn't even make the list. Josh Allen, he was your definition of average in your list I believe at #16. Rosen? I believe he is barely on someone's practice squad now. Lamar, last year he was. But according to your list he was 4 spots above Baker. So he was CLOSER to Baker than Wentz was to Baker.
Now, if you want to just shut up then we are good. If you want to say you might have misspoke we are good. If you want me to stop using your own statements against you I can. But if you want to keep on, even though everyone can tell you would just cower at the challenge, we can talk real football not some shared opinion/stat/talk show piece and you can be taught really quick.
Now I call Check. Your move sunshine.
So you going to resign from this game or make a move?
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And that's why your opinions are horse shit.
You lack the curiosity to learn new things.. which means you have zero actual understanding of anything you're blathering on about.. because you've never done the hard work to learn anything about sports [specifically football] or education or for that matter life in general.
Sure, you clearly have pride in yourself - but what is that pride based on? Your opinions are ridiculously uninformed nonsense. You have a right to an opinion, but not a right to someone else's respect as a result of [or agreement with] that opinion.
We are all dumber for reading anything you post.
Does someone have a gun to your head, making you read my posts? Then don't. I know your nickname is "Pathetic" around here and I get it, but I don't go around whining about your posts, because that is childish. If I grow weary of your ignorance I can just skip them, no big deal. If my vision makes you insecure, just pass, no reason to cry.
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32 divided by 2 = 16. 20 is lower. 16 is average. Ummmmmm, it's not complicated.
Then why do you get it wrong every time?
In statistics the sample size is represented by "n"... n/2 (what you did) is meaningless.
You have to quantify that which you have chosen to measure, sum those measures, divide their sum by the sample size... That is how an "average" is calculated.
Loved this on the linked page...
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Average is a pretty good description. He's better than most of the crap we've trotted out in the last 20 years though so I'm cool with it for now.
If you are looking for a band that sounds just like your favorite band, just forget about us. If you are looking for a band that will make you forget about your favorite band, we are here, just walk down Remedy Lane a few times and you will never be the same again... Daniel Gildenlow, Pain of Salvation -
Do people seem to forget that we used to lose against all the middle of the road teams and even weak teams? But now that Baker plays well enough to beat those teams that is not enough? Not long ago we didn't win a single game and only 1 before that, if we are going to win we have t take baby steps, Let's ride this out and see where the road with Baker leads, we are a ton better than before with Kessler, and all the others,GO BROWNS
I understand, however the two concepts are not mutually exclusive: Yes, Baker is better than what the Browns have had since Bernie. Agreed. But, at the same time, you would hope that the #1 pick overall in the draft would bring you a QB that is capable of beating teams beyond just the bad ones. He's not a rookie, as Burrow is. He is in his 3rd year. What should be expected of a QB who was the 1st pick overall in his 3rd year? Should he be noticeably improved as he was his rookie season? Is he?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MayfBa00.htm
He has regressed in many areas.
What have other top QBs accomplished from their rookie years to their 3rd? I don't know. Will the Browns roll out a massive extension at this point? Should Baker be paid like a Mahomes? Would that be wise?
I understand, however the two concepts are not mutually exclusive: Yes, Baker is better than what the Browns have had since Bernie. Agreed. But, at the same time, you would hope that the #1 pick overall in the draft would bring you a QB that is capable of beating teams beyond just the bad ones. He's not a rookie, as Burrow is. He is in his 3rd year. What should be expected of a QB who was the 1st pick overall in his 3rd year? Should he be noticeably improved as he was his rookie season? Is he?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MayfBa00.htm
He has regressed in many areas.
What have other top QBs accomplished from their rookie years to their 3rd? I don't know. Will the Browns roll out a massive extension at this point? Should Baker be paid like a Mahomes? Would that be wise?
Ok then in that case don't you think Andy Dalton should of been able to beat Bakers offense his rookie season? Believe me I know beating the Bengals is nothing to brag about but in a 16 game format Pisspuke always counted on 4 wins every season from the Browns twice and Cinci twice? I am not saying Baker is the answer by any stretch but he is healthy and can beat "weak teams" So why not keep him til we have something better ? Even if we do draft a qb let him sit behind Baker not to learn I would not say but to see what Baker can do with a High draft pick niping at his heels.
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I understand, however the two concepts are not mutually exclusive: Yes, Baker is better than what the Browns have had since Bernie. Agreed. But, at the same time, you would hope that the #1 pick overall in the draft would bring you a QB that is capable of beating teams beyond just the bad ones. He's not a rookie, as Burrow is. He is in his 3rd year. What should be expected of a QB who was the 1st pick overall in his 3rd year? Should he be noticeably improved as he was his rookie season? Is he?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MayfBa00.htm
He has regressed in many areas.
What have other top QBs accomplished from their rookie years to their 3rd? I don't know. Will the Browns roll out a massive extension at this point? Should Baker be paid like a Mahomes? Would that be wise?
Ok then in that case don't you think Andy Dalton should of been able to beat Bakers offense his rookie season? Believe me I know beating the Bengals is nothing to brag about but in a 16 game format Pisspuke always counted on 4 wins every season from the Browns twice and Cinci twice? I am not saying Baker is the answer by any stretch but he is healthy and can beat "weak teams" So why not keep him til we have something better ? Even if we do draft a qb let him sit behind Baker not to learn I would not say but to see what Baker can do with a High draft pick niping at his heels.
Ok then in that case don't you think Andy Dalton should of been able to beat Bakers offense his rookie season? Believe me I know beating the Bengals is nothing to brag about but in a 16 game format Pisspuke always counted on 4 wins every season from the Browns twice and Cinci twice? I am not saying Baker is the answer by any stretch but he is healthy and can beat "weak teams" So why not keep him til we have something better ? Even if we do draft a qb let him sit behind Baker not to learn I would not say but to see what Baker can do with a High draft pick niping at his heels.
No problem with that, but pretty soon it will take significant $ to keep him It's all relative.
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32 divided by 2 = 16. 20 is lower. 16 is average. Ummmmmm, it's not complicated.
Then why do you get it wrong every time?
In statistics the sample size is represented by "n"... n/2 (what you did) is meaningless.
You have to quantify that which you have chosen to measure, sum those measures, divide their sum by the sample size... That is how an "average" is calculated.
Loved this on the linked page...
Then why do you get it wrong every time?
In statistics the sample size is represented by "n"... n/2 (what you did) is meaningless.
You have to quantify that which you have chosen to measure, sum those measures, divide their sum by the sample size... That is how an "average" is calculated.
Loved this on the linked page...
I really hate to have to explain this to you, higher is actually lower in this case. You see, being the 25th QB compared to the 1st is lower. Why am I bothering.
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