Browns vs. Jaguars Data Points
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Zombo said:
Bottlegate!
I threw bottles!
Z
Thatta boy! Just a few days later, somebody posted a picture of Stan (Atenears) in the wind-up throwing a bottle while he was already nervous about a potential court case with Merletti. I hit the deck LMAO and he told me "it's not funny Flugel that Merletti is a bad dude." I said you just tell that Stadium Five-O Chief nobody fux with your curve ball.
I miss that guy!
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The thing is, the Browns, in their entire history have not really ever had that major stud at MLB.
Dick Ambrose was about as good as we've ever had. I mean the guy's nickname was "Bam Bam"...
And of course there was Vince Costello in the middle back in our heyday. Held down the spot for a decade. Met Vince at the '64 teams Hiram reunion.
No they tried that. It didn’t work
Not exactly... he played some LOLB his rookie year in Horton's 3-4. Played heavier and looked slow. Kirksey filled one of the ILB slots.
The next year it was the trimmed-down Joe that moved into the middle of Williams' 4-3. Kirk moved outside. I think Williams knew what he was doing, but Joe likely would have done well outside.
Dick Ambrose was about as good as we've ever had. I mean the guy's nickname was "Bam Bam"...
And of course there was Vince Costello in the middle back in our heyday. Held down the spot for a decade. Met Vince at the '64 teams Hiram reunion.
They were pretty good, but certainly not HOF caliber. In fact, in checking neither of them actually ever made a Pro Bowl. Mike Johnson and Walt Michaels are the only Browns MLBs that I see making more than one.
Not exactly... he played some LOLB his rookie year in Horton's 3-4. Played heavier and looked slow. Kirksey filled one of the ILB slots.
The next year it was the trimmed-down Joe that moved into the middle of Williams' 4-3. Kirk moved outside. I think Williams knew what he was doing, but Joe likely would have done well outside.
That was what I was thinking of....the fact that he played on the outside his rookie year...and they felt the need to put him inside.
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Dick Ambrose was about as good as we've ever had. I mean the guy's nickname was "Bam Bam"...
And of course there was Vince Costello in the middle back in our heyday. Held down the spot for a decade. Met Vince at the '64 teams Hiram reunion.
They were pretty good, but certainly not HOF caliber. In fact, in checking neither of them actually ever made a Pro Bowl. Mike Johnson and Walt Michaels are the only Browns MLBs that I see making more than one.
Not exactly... he played some LOLB his rookie year in Horton's 3-4. Played heavier and looked slow. Kirksey filled one of the ILB slots.
The next year it was the trimmed-down Joe that moved into the middle of Williams' 4-3. Kirk moved outside. I think Williams knew what he was doing, but Joe likely would have done well outside.
That was what I was thinking of....the fact that he played on the outside his rookie year...and they felt the need to put him inside.
- They were pretty good, but certainly not HOF caliber. In fact, in checking neither of them actually ever made a Pro Bowl. Mike Johnson and Walt Michaels are the only Browns MLBs that I see making more than one.
- That was what I was thinking of....the fact that he played on the outside his rookie year...and they felt the need to put him inside.
- Vince and Dick were both pretty good for a long time and impacted the games when they played. HOF is a ridiculous criteria and Pro Bowl isn't much better as it only means that a couple of others were better at their positions in a given year.
- Again, no... different Defensive schemes... different skill sets. There's no basis for saying Joe would or would not be good on the outside in a 4-3. Only thing that can be said is that Williams believed Joe's contributions would be greater inside.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
- They were pretty good, but certainly not HOF caliber. In fact, in checking neither of them actually ever made a Pro Bowl. Mike Johnson and Walt Michaels are the only Browns MLBs that I see making more than one.
- That was what I was thinking of....the fact that he played on the outside his rookie year...and they felt the need to put him inside.
- Vince and Dick were both pretty good for a long time and impacted the games when they played. HOF is a ridiculous criteria and Pro Bowl isn't much better as it only means that a couple of others were better at their positions in a given year.
- Again, no... different Defensive schemes... different skill sets. There's no basis for saying Joe would or would not be good on the outside in a 4-3. Only thing that can be said is that Williams believed Joe's contributions would be greater inside.
- Vince and Dick were both pretty good for a long time and impacted the games when they played. HOF is a ridiculous criteria and Pro Bowl isn't much better as it only means that a couple of others were better at their positions in a given year.
- So? To you making Pro Bowls and making the HOF are inconsequential when judging a player's career? Does the rest of the planet know about this?
- Again, no... different Defensive schemes... different skill sets. There's no basis for saying Joe would or would not be good on the outside in a 4-3. Only thing that can be said is that Williams believed Joe's contributions would be greater inside.
- Well, the basis is they tried him outside and apparently didn't like what they saw, so they put him inside and did like it. What scheme and where is Jacksonville playing him?
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Back to Ignore you go...
Same old Gipper... clueless when it comes to football.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Back to Ignore you go...
Same old Gipper... clueless when it comes to football.
The Clueless Coward of Cass County returns I see. Hall of Fame recognition and Pro Bowl recognition are ridiculous ways to assess a player's career. That is what this clown is saying. Does he read what he writes?
And the fact is...the people who are experts and in charge of things felt that Schobert would be better off inside.
So, Tour thinks he is smarter than all the players/coaches/GMs/sports writers in the NFL who look at player's careers and decide who were best at their jobs, and who are responsible for the deployment of the players in their employ.
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Well, here is another way to assess a players career: look at the Career Averages on PFR
Browns MLBs with top CAs:
Charlie Hall 62
Mike Johnson 56
Vince Costello 53
DQwell Jackson 51
Dick Ambrose 47
Eddie Johnson 43
Dale Lindsay 40
Walt Michaels played too early to have a proper Career Average score, as that particular stat really goes back to like 1960
So, OK, these are good, but by no means great scores and these were good but by no means great players. And I will repeat my claim that we have never really had that stud MLB ...HOF potential.
Compare these to a couple of outstanding OLBs in the Browns history:
Jim Houston....Career Average 89 and still has not had a sniff of HOF recognition
Clay Matthews 125 CA and while he is getting sniffs, he has not made HOF.
(Note: Chip Banks had a Career Average with the Browns of 55. so he would fall in the good, not great category IMO).
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Zombo said:
Mike Johnson and Vince Costello made my all-time roster in 2019. Many others received recognition. A pretty good group overall.
I would absolutely agree that Johnson and Costello would fit where you have them. They are the best that we have had there.
I am only saying that the Browns have never had an MLB of the likes of Butkus/Lambert/Nitschke/Lewis/Urlacher/Huff/Lanier/Schmidt/Singletary/Seau and others.
By the way....now turn Mack Speedie to Gold....selected to HOF.
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I have this gap in my memory that I don't understand: Charlie Hall. By the records, he played for the Browns in the 70s, and I certainly followed them closely in the 70s........but for the life of me I cannot remember him. I remember like Bob Matheson and Bob Babich and such similar players, but I cannot recall him, yet, by the numbers he seems to be one of the best MLBs we have had.
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