The official Terry Pluto thread
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Baker Mayfield is better than two guys barely hanging on to a roster spot in the NFL.
Sorry, but I expect a little more from the former #1 overall pick than "Well... but he's better than Deshone Kizer and Tyrod Taylor!"
Hehehehe. I'm with ya. But he's got a 2-1 TD to INT ratio and he's winning games in Cleveland. He's also the top rated QB in the red zone (or was two weeks ago). Regardless, he's the real deal, especially when it matters. What's the next hurdle? Beating Pittsburgh this year. He's beaten Baltimore twice, time to beat Pittsburgh when Ben is out there.
Hehehehe. I'm with ya. But he's got a 2-1 TD to INT ratio and he's winning games in Cleveland. He's also the top rated QB in the red zone (or was two weeks ago). Regardless, he's the real deal, especially when it matters. What's the next hurdle? Beating Pittsburgh this year. He's beaten Baltimore twice, time to beat Pittsburgh when Ben is out there.
Here's what I want to see, and it will only flesh itself out over time:
Is Stefanski and Co. treating Mayfield almost as a rookie this season, knowing his bad habits and that he needed to be torn down and rebuilt back up? Hence the offense that doesn't ask him to do a ton of heavy lifting? OR, does Stefanski and Co. know exactly what they have in Baker Mayfield, and THAT'S the reason they don't ask him to do a ton? Basically they have a passing attack on training wheels because they think that's his ceiling?
We'll find out next season. If the offense looks the same, and Baker is still being a game manager, then that's because the Browns feel that is what he is. If he progresses next year, and starts putting up bigger numbers, then I'll think he's "the real deal".
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Hehehehe. I'm with ya. But he's got a 2-1 TD to INT ratio and he's winning games in Cleveland. He's also the top rated QB in the red zone (or was two weeks ago). Regardless, he's the real deal, especially when it matters. What's the next hurdle? Beating Pittsburgh this year. He's beaten Baltimore twice, time to beat Pittsburgh when Ben is out there.
Here's what I want to see, and it will only flesh itself out over time:
Is Stefanski and Co. treating Mayfield almost as a rookie this season, knowing his bad habits and that he needed to be torn down and rebuilt back up? Hence the offense that doesn't ask him to do a ton of heavy lifting? OR, does Stefanski and Co. know exactly what they have in Baker Mayfield, and THAT'S the reason they don't ask him to do a ton? Basically they have a passing attack on training wheels because they think that's his ceiling?
We'll find out next season. If the offense looks the same, and Baker is still being a game manager, then that's because the Browns feel that is what he is. If he progresses next year, and starts putting up bigger numbers, then I'll think he's "the real deal".
We'll find out next season. If the offense looks the same, and Baker is still being a game manager, then that's because the Browns feel that is what he is. If he progresses next year, and starts putting up bigger numbers, then I'll think he's "the real deal".
I hear ya, and I think no matter what we're paying him. Why? Because of all the franchises in the world, ours is the one who suffered most by not having a QB. So no matter what, for right or wrong, Baker is here to stay. Because if he leaves, who the hell is replacing him? People might not like the idea of paying someone just because he's "mediocre"...but in Cleveland that's mighty fine.
However, the good news is that Baker is way more than that. You don't set rookie records on accident.
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Hehehehe. I'm with ya. But he's got a 2-1 TD to INT ratio and he's winning games in Cleveland. He's also the top rated QB in the red zone (or was two weeks ago). Regardless, he's the real deal, especially when it matters. What's the next hurdle? Beating Pittsburgh this year. He's beaten Baltimore twice, time to beat Pittsburgh when Ben is out there.
Here's what I want to see, and it will only flesh itself out over time:
Is Stefanski and Co. treating Mayfield almost as a rookie this season, knowing his bad habits and that he needed to be torn down and rebuilt back up? Hence the offense that doesn't ask him to do a ton of heavy lifting? OR, does Stefanski and Co. know exactly what they have in Baker Mayfield, and THAT'S the reason they don't ask him to do a ton? Basically they have a passing attack on training wheels because they think that's his ceiling?
We'll find out next season. If the offense looks the same, and Baker is still being a game manager, then that's because the Browns feel that is what he is. If he progresses next year, and starts putting up bigger numbers, then I'll think he's "the real deal".
Here's what I want to see, and it will only flesh itself out over time:
Is Stefanski and Co. treating Mayfield almost as a rookie this season, knowing his bad habits and that he needed to be torn down and rebuilt back up? Hence the offense that doesn't ask him to do a ton of heavy lifting? OR, does Stefanski and Co. know exactly what they have in Baker Mayfield, and THAT'S the reason they don't ask him to do a ton? Basically they have a passing attack on training wheels because they think that's his ceiling?
We'll find out next season. If the offense looks the same, and Baker is still being a game manager, then that's because the Browns feel that is what he is. If he progresses next year, and starts putting up bigger numbers, then I'll think he's "the real deal".
I think you are overlooking a very obvious 3rd alternative... that this is Stef's offense. Namely run the ball and PA off of the run, and only ask of your QB what the game situation demands of him.
Next year? If we invest heavily in our D, then I'd expect even more of the same.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Here's what I want to see, and it will only flesh itself out over time:
Is Stefanski and Co. treating Mayfield almost as a rookie this season, knowing his bad habits and that he needed to be torn down and rebuilt back up? Hence the offense that doesn't ask him to do a ton of heavy lifting? OR, does Stefanski and Co. know exactly what they have in Baker Mayfield, and THAT'S the reason they don't ask him to do a ton? Basically they have a passing attack on training wheels because they think that's his ceiling?
We'll find out next season. If the offense looks the same, and Baker is still being a game manager, then that's because the Browns feel that is what he is. If he progresses next year, and starts putting up bigger numbers, then I'll think he's "the real deal".
I think you are overlooking a very obvious 3rd alternative... that this is Stef's offense. Namely run the ball and PA off of the run, and only ask of your QB what the game situation demands of him.
Next year? If we invest heavily in our D, then I'd expect even more of the same.
I think you are overlooking a very obvious 3rd alternative... that this is Stef's offense. Namely run the ball and PA off of the run, and only ask of your QB what the game situation demands of him.
Next year? If we invest heavily in our D, then I'd expect even more of the same.
I'm not overlooking it.
I'm hoping that this is not the case.
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Here's what I want to see, and it will only flesh itself out over time:
Is Stefanski and Co. treating Mayfield almost as a rookie this season, knowing his bad habits and that he needed to be torn down and rebuilt back up? Hence the offense that doesn't ask him to do a ton of heavy lifting? OR, does Stefanski and Co. know exactly what they have in Baker Mayfield, and THAT'S the reason they don't ask him to do a ton? Basically they have a passing attack on training wheels because they think that's his ceiling?
We'll find out next season. If the offense looks the same, and Baker is still being a game manager, then that's because the Browns feel that is what he is. If he progresses next year, and starts putting up bigger numbers, then I'll think he's "the real deal".
I think you are overlooking a very obvious 3rd alternative... that this is Stef's offense. Namely run the ball and PA off of the run, and only ask of your QB what the game situation demands of him.
Next year? If we invest heavily in our D, then I'd expect even more of the same.
I think you are overlooking a very obvious 3rd alternative... that this is Stef's offense. Namely run the ball and PA off of the run, and only ask of your QB what the game situation demands of him.
This is kind of what I was talking about the other day with someone. When has Baker failed to give you what you need in the constructs of the offense? You look at that Raiders game, and that might have actually been one of Baker's best games of the year. He gets a historic low 6 possessions, makes enough throws to win without turning it over, yet his team had a bad day, on both sides of the ball.
People said, "Ohhh, he can be a game manager but can't pass his way to a win when the defense lets us down." Wrong, he killed the Bengals in the second game when once again the defense shat bed. Not only THAT, but he was damn near perfect for 3 quarters straight AFTER OBJ blew his knee out. Perfect btw.
Then people said," Well, it was against the Bengals. It doesn't count." Yeah, ask the Titans if the Bengals count. Just about whatever our offense needed at the time, Baker delivered. Is he perfect? No. Has he had bad games? Of course. But who the HELL doesn't have bad games? Baker's productivity is directly tied to what's being asked of him.
Can he be better? Yes. Will he get better after a season in the same system? I have to believe so. I don't have any stats to support this, but Baker has hit some MONSTER 3rd down conversions this year, and like I keep telling people, he was the top rated red zone passer as of two weeks ago. That's not good enough for people?
The question people who don't love Baker need to answer is this: "If not Baker, then what QB do you want?"
It gets REAL quiet after that. You want Nick Foles? Jameis Winston? Case Keenum? Andy Dalton? Fans really want some retread back under center? How about a rookie. Anybody feel like going down THAT avenue again? Hmmm?
No! Absolutely not! I won't have it! Baker, I crown you the Browns' franchise QB. It is done! Cause you know, people care about what I think. ?
Happy Thanksgiving! I'm walking into the gym and I'm not happy about it. Btw, this game terrifies me. I've seen way too many bad games played against the Jags. This seems like a total trap game, and we haven't really pissed down our leg against an inferior team, and virtually EVERY franchise screws up at least once.
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I think you are overlooking a very obvious 3rd alternative... that this is Stef's offense. Namely run the ball and PA off of the run, and only ask of your QB what the game situation demands of him.
Next year? If we invest heavily in our D, then I'd expect even more of the same.
I'm not overlooking it.
I'm hoping that this is not the case.
I'm hoping that this is not the case.
Why?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm hoping that this is not the case.
Why?
Why?
If THIS is Stefanski's offense running at full steam, I think it is limited.
Baker today is not a dynamic quarterback. He's a QB that when everything is going well can be competent for sure, but he's not someone who is going to shred a good defense.
I'm hoping that Stefanski and Co. are treating him almost as a rookie this season, and he will progress in the future years.
Because if this is it, I don't think it is enough for the Browns to move into elite, Super Bowl contention.
And I say this as someone who all and all has been very impressed with Stefanski this season.
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Why?
If THIS is Stefanski's offense running at full steam, I think it is limited.
Baker today is not a dynamic quarterback. He's a QB that when everything is going well can be competent for sure, but he's not someone who is going to shred a good defense.
I'm hoping that Stefanski and Co. are treating him almost as a rookie this season, and he will progress in the future years.
Because if this is it, I don't think it is enough for the Browns to move into elite, Super Bowl contention.
And I say this as someone who all and all has been very impressed with Stefanski this season.
If this IS Stefanski's offense running at full steam, I think it is limited.
Baker today is not a dynamic quarterback. He's a QB that when everything is going well can be competent for sure, but he's not someone who is going to shred a good defense.
I'm hoping that Stefanski and Co. are treating him almost as a rookie this season, and he will progress in the future years.
Because if this is it, I don't think it is enough for the Browns to move into elite, Super Bowl contention.
And I say this as someone who all and all has been very impressed with Stefanski this season.
You mean, sorta like Bart Starr? ?
Mike
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If this IS Stefanski's offense running at full steam, I think it is limited.
Baker today is not a dynamic quarterback. He's a QB that when everything is going well can be competent for sure, but he's not someone who is going to shred a good defense.
I'm hoping that Stefanski and Co. are treating him almost as a rookie this season, and he will progress in the future years.
Because if this is it, I don't think it is enough for the Browns to move into elite, Super Bowl contention.
And I say this as someone who all and all has been very impressed with Stefanski this season.
You mean, sorta like Bart Starr? ?
Mike
You mean, sorta like Bart Starr? ?
Mike
You think the NFL in 2020 might be slightly different than the NFL in 1960?
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You mean, sorta like Bart Starr? ?
Mike
You think the NFL in 2020 might be slightly different than the NFL in 1960?
You think the NFL in 2020 might be slightly different than the NFL in 1960?
Yep, but similar style of play THIS year HAS taken the Browns to 7-3.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
You mean, sorta like Bart Starr? ?
Mike
You think the NFL in 2020 might be slightly different than the NFL in 1960?
You think the NFL in 2020 might be slightly different than the NFL in 1960?
Not that much. It is still all about blocking and tackling
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You think the NFL in 2020 might be slightly different than the NFL in 1960?
Yep, but similar style of play THIS year HAS taken the Browns to 7-3.
Mike
Yep, but similar style of play THIS year HAS taken the Browns to 7-3.
Mike
And they got their doors completely blown off by the teams they are chasing in this division.
And yes I know Baltimore is behind the Browns in the standings, but I think we can agree that as a franchise the Browns aren't quite where Baltimore is year in and year out.
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Yep, but similar style of play THIS year HAS taken the Browns to 7-3.
Mike
And they got their doors completely blown off by the teams they are chasing in this division.
And yes I know Baltimore is behind the Browns in the standings, but I think we can agree that as a franchise the Browns aren't quite where Baltimore is year in and year out.
And they got their doors completely blown off by the teams they are chasing in this division.
And yes I know Baltimore is behind the Browns in the standings, but I think we can agree that as a franchise the Browns aren't quite where Baltimore is year in and year out.
There is no doubt we aren't where the Ravens & Steelers are yet, that takes time, but I do believe a lot of pieces, on & off the field, are falling in place.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
Yep, but similar style of play THIS year HAS taken the Browns to 7-3.
Mike
And they got their doors completely blown off by the teams they are chasing in this division.
And yes I know Baltimore is behind the Browns in the standings, but I think we can agree that as a franchise the Browns aren't quite where Baltimore is year in and year out.
And they got their doors completely blown off by the teams they are chasing in this division.
And yes I know Baltimore is behind the Browns in the standings, but I think we can agree that as a franchise the Browns aren't quite where Baltimore is year in and year out.
Well, if the Browns beat the Jags, and the Steelers beat the RFs...then THIS we will have a 2 game lead over theme. So all those past years will be OUT and this year we would be the ones IN.
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And they got their doors completely blown off by the teams they are chasing in this division.
And yes I know Baltimore is behind the Browns in the standings, but I think we can agree that as a franchise the Browns aren't quite where Baltimore is year in and year out.
There is no doubt we aren't where the Ravens & Steelers are yet, that takes time, but I do believe a lot of pieces, on & off the field, are falling in place.
Mike
There is no doubt we aren't where the Ravens & Steelers are yet, that takes time, but I do believe a lot of pieces, on & off the field, are falling in place.
Mike
See above....you are right, we would not be where the Ravens are.....we would be better. And if we beat Jax, our record will be better or as good as any team in the NFL except....the Steelers, Chiefs, and Saints (assuming they beat Denver).
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There is no doubt we aren't where the Ravens & Steelers are yet, that takes time, but I do believe a lot of pieces, on & off the field, are falling in place.
Mike
See above....you are right, we would not be where the Ravens are.....we would be better. And if we beat Jax, our record will be better or as good as any team in the NFL except....the Steelers, Chiefs, and Saints (assuming they beat Denver).
See above....you are right, we would not be where the Ravens are.....we would be better. And if we beat Jax, our record will be better or as good as any team in the NFL except....the Steelers, Chiefs, and Saints (assuming they beat Denver).
Stop being so myopic.
Finishing ahead of a traditional playoff team for two decades ONCE doesn't mean anything if the Browns fall apart again next season, which is what they did the TWO times they actually finished higher than .500 since 1999.
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See above....you are right, we would not be where the Ravens are.....we would be better. And if we beat Jax, our record will be better or as good as any team in the NFL except....the Steelers, Chiefs, and Saints (assuming they beat Denver).
Stop being so myopic.
Finishing ahead of a traditional playoff team for two decades ONCE doesn't mean anything if the Browns fall apart again next season, which is what they did the TWO times they actually finished higher than .500 since 1999.
Stop being so myopic.
Finishing ahead of a traditional playoff team for two decades ONCE doesn't anything if the Browns fall apart again next season, which is what they did the TWO times they actually finished higher than .500 since 1999.
Well I’m talking about the here and now. And for the here and now, and who knows about the future WE have the better record. And maybe we have a coach that will make us into a traditional playoff team . That’s starts now. For decades the New England Patriots were the most pathetic franchise in the NFL. But then they got a coach and a QB became the best franchise in the NFL. Things can and do change and hopefully they have for us at this point. So, it appears to me that you are the one being myopic...only seeing the Browns through the narrow window of their recent past. You may need to take the blinders off to see our potential bright future.
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I don't like using the words easy win. I hope it is but...
WSS
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