My choice for next Browns Head coach is...
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That wouldn't go against what I said. I said bad football teams. I agree he turns around underachieving ones.
I don't knock Marty with the old can't win the big one. Just like with Cowher. You get down to that part of the season and anything can happen.
My reasoning for not going for Marty are age and that to me it seems like reaching back into Browns past for glory. Of course if Marty came to CLE again, I'd welcome him w/ open arms. But I like Cowher or Mooch as an option more than Cowher.
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I think the fear on Mooch is the last taste in peoples mouth, his stint in DET.That's probably a lot of it!!
Plus for me, the major problems now with this team are on defense...I guess i'd have to knwo who his DC would be.
Yeah, who he got as a DC would be important (then again same with Marty).
My concern with Mooch would be that he has gotten into power struggles in SF and DET. Then again, both places had idiots running the franchise.
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I think the fear on Mooch is the last taste in peoples mouth, his stint in DET.That's probably a lot of it!!
Plus for me, the major problems now with this team are on defense...I guess i'd have to knwo who his DC would be.
Yeah, who he got as a DC would be important (then again same with Marty).
My concern with Mooch would be that he has gotten into power struggles in SF and DET. Then again, both places had idiots running the franchise.
Good point.
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mooch only won in SF with a team that had already been successful. he's essentially the west coast barry switzer.
not wanting marty is, in some ways, an emotional decision. yes, his teams are competitive, but they're also limited and unimaginative. cowher shed his reputation as a playoff loser. marty's done nothing but reinforce his with the same kind of defensive playcalling that we're all bitching about now.
if we can get cowher, that's fine, but i wouldn't bank on it.
there's no clear-cut great candidate out there. it's up to our owner to find a guy who can run a football team, and randy simply isn't up to that task. the reason the steelers keep finding great coaches is beacuse the rooneys know football. it's their family's heritage.
spags might be a good choice. he's innovative, which is good, and aggressive, which is better. someone else i think might be a good choice is the dolphins' current DC, paul pasqualoni. he's doing well with virtually no talent to speak of and has coached both sides of the ball. he was syracuse's head coach the last time they were good ('91-'04) and developed jason witten into the talent he currently is.
i'd still prefer an unknown who could be great over a someone who's known to be mediocre.
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mooch only won in SF with a team that had already been successful. he's essentially the west coast barry switzer.Actually, Mooch replaced Seifert, who was the west coast Switzer. That dude rode Walshes coat tails and players (see how he did in CAR). SF hasn't sniffed the playoffs since he left either.
I mean Mooch got an average of 5 wins a season out of DET. I don't know how they win 1 game a season the last few years (I know, they managed to get 7 some how last season).
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i'd still prefer an unknown who could be great over a someone who's known to be mediocre.
Palmer, Davis, Crennel.......
what do those names all have in common? they essentially fit the bill of your sentance above.
And those believed to be mediocre at one time - BB and Haslett (the job he did in NO and doing in STL-wow) are two who were considered that after their first stint. Sometimes it just doesn't work the first time for guys. They learn and grow after the fact. Then again, you get guys like Tomlin, Winsenhunt, Mike Smith, and Harbough who had no HC experience that pan out. Picking a NFL coach is like the NFL draft, a lot of times it's a crap shoot.
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I guess for me it comes down to this, and maybe I am different than most fans.I'd rather have the team make the playoffs 6 or 7 out of every 10 seasons, and then suffer a heart breaking loss in the playoffs. Then go through this carosel of getting to the point where you almost make the playoffs, then blow it up and start over being terrible, all on the chance of MAYBE winning the Superbowl once.
And I see going with a new young HC having a bigger chance of setting us backwards then a guy like Marty would.
I have to agree with you here, I am sick of every 4 years starting all over. You will never win doing that. Dont get me wrong when you have the wrong guy like Crennel you have no choice to get rid of them but you dont replace him with an unknown that could be worse. You go out and get a proven guy and get out of this vicious cycle.
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@ JADBF: yes, palmer, davis and romeo were all unknown quantities when they came to cleveland. however, there was no possible way palmer could have won. he was playing with a guaranteed 2-14 team in his two years. had butch davis not been the GM in addition to the HC, he'd still be here. dude was a good coach but a terrible, just effing awful, GM. and romeo is romeo: apathetic and fat.
it just seems we have different philosophies and wants for this team. i'm willing to suffer through more losing in the hope that we find someone great. while an unknown might suck, they might also be brilliant. with marty, we're assured of being mired in mediocrity until we get someone else.
that being said, i forgot about vermeil. of all the retreads, he and cowher are the only two i like. vermeil's players respect him and play their hearts out for him. he, not martz, was the coach that won the super bowl with the rams.
maybe mooch could be good when not clashing with his GM. maybe he, like belichick, just needs someone he can work with. it's possible, i just don't see it.
barring getting vermeil or cowher, i'd prefer someone from off the radar. i don't want a "12-4 but lose to a wild-card team" ceiling. getting to the playoffs is only good when you can actually win once you're there.
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Now that we've (well, most of us) put the QB controversy to rest, it seems like as good a time as any to discuss the replacement for scapegoat #2, Romeo Crennel.My choice would be Giants DC Steve Spagnuolo.
Innovative, fiery, and smart. Three things our current buffoon ain't.
Belichick #2?
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I just don't want any more retreads. Proven losers will be that again.How about someone young and progressive for a change.
Randy Edsall?
Worked under Coughlin and has head coaching experience.
I believe he possess excellent coaching/teaching skills and has a keen sense of spoting players who fit a certain profile.
Don't laugh. This guy could land a big-time coaching job if he choose to. He is loyal to UCONN, I guess. The $1M+ salary per season doesn't hurt either.
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@ JADBF: norv turner was a shitty choice for the chargers. he's proven himself to be a terrible HC but great QB coach and OC. he was a terrible hire and everyone knew it when the chargers made it.
i lived and worked in pittsburgh for two years and it sucked, i agree. however, some of their fans are well-versed football fans. it's the same with any franchise: you have smart fans and idiot homers. the smart ones at least aren't dicks about winning or whiny bitches about losing.
here's the scenario i can see working with marty: he has absolutely nothing to do with the offense at any point on gameday. ever. i'd want an 'aggressiveness coordinator' to make sure the players and coaches never let up or get conservative. only if the team has built-in marty-proofing would i feel good about hiring him.
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I just don't want any more retreads. Proven losers will be that again.How about someone young and progressive for a change.
Randy Edsall?
Worked under Coughlin and has head coaching experience.
I believe he possess excellent coaching/teaching skills and has a keen sense of spoting players who fit a certain profile.
Don't laugh. This guy could land a big-time coaching job if he choose to. He is loyal to UCONN, I guess. The $1M+ salary per season doesn't hurt either.
Not NFL HC experience though.
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@ JADBF: norv turner was a shitty choice for the chargers. he's proven himself to be a terrible HC but great QB coach and OC. he was a terrible hire and everyone knew it when the chargers made it.i lived and worked in pittsburgh for two years and it sucked, i agree. however, some of their fans are well-versed football fans. it's the same with any franchise: you have smart fans and idiot homers. the smart ones at least aren't dicks about winning or whiny bitches about losing.
here's the scenario i can see working with marty: he has absolutely nothing to do with the offense at any point on gameday. ever. i'd want an 'aggressiveness coordinator' to make sure the players and coaches never let up or get conservative. only if the team has built-in marty-proofing would i feel good about hiring him.
About the pitt fans. Actually, I have the utmost respect for the Pittsburgh fans that I work with. Unlike most of the trolls on here, they have a repect for the Browns too and we have good discussions of football. But that doesn't change the fact that I haven't really had anything to brag about since I started here.
and I don't have a problem with that Marty scenario.
Same experience for me with PIT fans. One of my best friends is a Steelers fan, as well as some social friends as well. They are really no different than Browns fans, except they bleed black and gold instead of orange and brown.
When people knock Steelers fans as a whole all I can think is you are talking about the same fans who were as outraged as CLE fans when Model moved the old Browns.
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I just don't want any more retreads. Proven losers will be that again.How about someone young and progressive for a change.
Randy Edsall?
Worked under Coughlin and has head coaching experience.
I believe he possess excellent coaching/teaching skills and has a keen sense of spoting players who fit a certain profile.
Don't laugh. This guy could land a big-time coaching job if he choose to. He is loyal to UCONN, I guess. The $1M+ salary per season doesn't hurt either.
Not NFL HC experience though.
Plus, he's coaching a .500 Big East team.
Go 'Cuse!
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But I still beleive had Marty been given more time in Cleveland or SD, he would have a SB now.I do agree with that. I mean the ball had to bounce his way sooner or later.
Agree with this and I also want to say ... at this point, bringing Marty back would not be a "resurrecting the past" type of move. He's a quality unemployed coach with a solid winning history, a strong work ethic and a disciplinarian. All of which are things this team needs in a big way.
Doug
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@ JADBF: norv turner was a shitty choice for the chargers. he's proven himself to be a terrible HC but great QB coach and OC. he was a terrible hire and everyone knew it when the chargers made it.i lived and worked in pittsburgh for two years and it sucked, i agree. however, some of their fans are well-versed football fans. it's the same with any franchise: you have smart fans and idiot homers. the smart ones at least aren't dicks about winning or whiny bitches about losing.
here's the scenario i can see working with marty: he has absolutely nothing to do with the offense at any point on gameday. ever. i'd want an 'aggressiveness coordinator' to make sure the players and coaches never let up or get conservative. only if the team has built-in marty-proofing would i feel good about hiring him.
About the pitt fans. Actually, I have the utmost respect for the Pittsburgh fans that I work with. Unlike most of the trolls on here, they have a repect for the Browns too and we have good discussions of football. But that doesn't change the fact that I haven't really had anything to brag about since I started here.
and I don't have a problem with that Marty scenario.
Same experience for me with PIT fans. One of my best friends is a Steelers fan, as well as some social friends as well. They are really no different than Browns fans, except they bleed black and gold instead of orange and brown.
When people knock Steelers fans as a whole all I can think is you are talking about the same fans who were as outraged as CLE fans when Model moved the old Browns.
Mik, a word of warning if you move back to the Akron area, and that is Steeler fans are morons here. I've went into this before, but they're everywhere around here. Occasionally there is one that knows their stuff and isn't a dickhead, but for the most part they are all the stereotype cracks them up to be and bandwagonners on top of it.
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