Vernon Ruptured Achilles
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Tough call - my hunch is, he didn't show up early on much.
But later turned it on. We don't know the story behind that - don't know if he was playing banged up early on...
but now he is toast for a while - out of the playoffs. That will change everything.
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https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/olivier-vernon-suffers-ruptured-achilles
Olivier Vernon Suffers Ruptured Achilles, Which Devastates Browns On Multiple Fronts
An MRI has revealed that Cleveland Browns defensive end Olivier Vernon has suffered a ruptured Achilles' which not only ends his season, but raises questions about his future and the defensive end position for Browns next year.*******************************************I have felt all season that our DC has been brilliant - he just has a lack of talent out there for different reasons. And STILL made the PLAYOFFS ! He isn't going anywhere - been extremely successful elsewhere.
The D ended up right in the middle in rankings (16th). That isn't bad considering how many holes they had at LB and DB. Next year will most likely have upgrades in both units. They will focus on LB/DB heavy in the draft and add a few FAs as well.
The D ended up right in the middle in rankings (16th). That isn't bad considering how many holes they had at LB and DB. Next year will most likely have upgrades in both units. They will focus on LB/DB heavy in the draft and add a few FAs as well.
I agree - S/CB/LB....
and it's a nicer deeper draft for DE's than I thought at first - NOTE - Tyreke Smith, Ohio State. I think that would be a fine pick, Hopefully about the 4th round
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Vernon is going to be a big blow because he has picked up the slack from Myles as Myles still is having post covid issues. So Myles will need to up his game. Clayborn I think is the best next option and needs to play well. I did see him get some pressures last game. If we get Ward back that will be huge. Going forward I would take OV back on a friendly one year prove it deal. The defense as a whole needs a lot of work, it should be the primary focus of the draft and free agency.
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Vernon will be signing 1-2yr prove-it deals moving forward.. I'd bring him back because the $ are lower in those deals.
Sure, edge is now a need in addition to every other team, but Vernon is still the best bang-for-buck next year because he'll be far better than average.
I hope we go LB in the first.. maybe Rashad Weaver from Pitt will be there in the second
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This, of course, is a big blow to us heading into a playoff game. He was doing a pretty good job.
I'm pretty sure his position will be targeted in the offseason.
His contract is up I think. At 30 years old and injury prone, perhaps a friendlier contract can be negotiated.
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If you asked me after the first month of the season, I would have said OV (Vernon) has to go. He's making big money and he wasn't producing. Fast forward to NOW, and he's been our best DE, even better than the covid stricken Myles Garrett in some games. Losing him for our playoff game is tear-jerking, but the question remains...what do we do with him? What do you guys think?
If you asked me after the first month of the season, I would have said OV (Vernon) has to go. He's making big money and he wasn't producing. Fast forward to NOW, and he's been our best DE, even better than the covid stricken Myles Garrett in some games. Losing him for our playoff game is tear-jerking, but the question remains...what do we do with him? What do you guys think?
Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
If you asked me after the first month of the season, I would have said OV (Vernon) has to go. He's making big money and he wasn't producing. Fast forward to NOW, and he's been our best DE, even better than the covid stricken Myles Garrett in some games. Losing him for our playoff game is tear-jerking, but the question remains...what do we do with him? What do you guys think?
Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
It's one of the worst. I feel awful for him.
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If you asked me after the first month of the season, I would have said OV (Vernon) has to go. He's making big money and he wasn't producing. Fast forward to NOW, and he's been our best DE, even better than the covid stricken Myles Garrett in some games. Losing him for our playoff game is tear-jerking, but the question remains...what do we do with him? What do you guys think?
Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
Wait....Tour downplayed the severity of the achilles injury. See:
Why? Players come back from Achilles fairly quickly all the time.
Post surgery healing time is 6 to 8 weeks. Return to play can be as fast as 4 months. Even at double that he makes training camp.
So which one of you is accurate, and which one isn't?
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Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
Wait....Tour downplayed the severity of the achilles injury. See:
Why? Players come back from Achilles fairly quickly all the time.
Post surgery healing time is 6 to 8 weeks. Return to play can be as fast as 4 months. Even at double that he makes training camp.
So which one of you is accurate, and which one isn't?
Wait....Tour downplayed the severity of the achilles injury. See:
Why? Players come back from Achilles fairly quickly all the time.
Post surgery healing time is 6 to 8 weeks. Return to play can be as fast as 4 months. Even at double that he makes training camp.
So which one of you is accurate, and which one isn't?
It depends on the player, the position and the sport. Achilles injuries are pretty damn rough. I used to deal with strains a fair amount, its definitely not an injury I'd feel good about if it were a steeler and that's especially true with a defensive lineman that has to anchor and push against dudes paid to move mountains. However professional athletes are remarkable human beings and recovery is different because they are built different. Vernon isn't getting any younger.
26% of all ruptured achilles injuries end in retirement. They aren't minor injuries.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
No.
I don’t trust his health and there are too many other guys on that side of the ball in the same boat.
I would clean house. I’d take a hard look at our coordinator too.
No.
I don’t trust his health and there are too many other guys on that side of the ball in the same boat.
I would clean house. I’d take a hard look at our coordinator too.
i agree...don't care for woods either....who is vernons' backup.....maybe he is a diamond in the rough....this is going to be a tough weekend....our qb pressure d is not all that great...at least vernon has been showing up lately.....lb's are not good and the db's are a mess with all the injuries and covid.....woods is going to have to come up with some kind of plan....good luck with that...
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No.
I don’t trust his health and there are too many other guys on that side of the ball in the same boat.
I would clean house. I’d take a hard look at our coordinator too.
i agree...don't care for woods either....who is vernons' backup.....maybe he is a diamond in the rough....this is going to be a tough weekend....our qb pressure d is not all that great...at least vernon has been showing up lately.....lb's are not good and the db's are a mess with all the injuries and covid.....woods is going to have to come up with some kind of plan....good luck with that...
i agree...don't care for woods either....who is vernons' backup.....maybe he is a diamond in the rough....this is going to be a tough weekend....our qb pressure d is not all that great...at least vernon has been showing up lately.....lb's are not good and the db's are a mess with all the injuries and covid.....woods is going to have to come up with some kind of plan....good luck with that...
Send a couple guys outside your front four on a blitz?
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If you asked me after the first month of the season, I would have said OV (Vernon) has to go. He's making big money and he wasn't producing. Fast forward to NOW, and he's been our best DE, even better than the covid stricken Myles Garrett in some games. Losing him for our playoff game is tear-jerking, but the question remains...what do we do with him? What do you guys think?
Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
Achilles injuries are brutal, I'd say thats especially true for defensive lineman considering the pressure put on them when you are battling with other lineman. He's not super old but he's still 30. I'd expect the Browns to stand by him in his recovery and as you said negotiate a less expensive contract or just let him walk when the time comes. No way would I advocate signing him to another lucrative deal after that type of injury and soon being north of 30.
NO!
You can't have him...
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Wait....Tour downplayed the severity of the achilles injury. See:
Why? Players come back from Achilles fairly quickly all the time.
Post surgery healing time is 6 to 8 weeks. Return to play can be as fast as 4 months. Even at double that he makes training camp.
So which one of you is accurate, and which one isn't?
It depends on the player, the position and the sport. Achilles injuries are pretty damn rough. I used to deal with strains a fair amount, its definitely not an injury I'd feel good about if it were a steeler and that's especially true with a defensive lineman that has to anchor and push against dudes paid to move mountains. However professional athletes are remarkable human beings and recovery is different because they are built different. Vernon isn't getting any younger.
26% of all ruptured achilles injuries end in retirement. They aren't minor injuries.
It depends on the player, the position and the sport. Achilles injuries are pretty damn rough. I used to deal with strains a fair amount, its definitely not an injury I'd feel good about if it were a steeler and that's especially true with a defensive lineman that has to anchor and push against dudes paid to move mountains. However professional athletes are remarkable human beings and recovery is different because they are built different. Vernon isn't getting any younger.
26% of all ruptured achilles injuries end in retirement. They aren't minor injuries.
So odds are 3:1 on his recovery. How many of the retirements were at the end of their careers and not just approaching that stage as Vernon is?
That said....
Much to Gip's disappointment there's no real disagreement here... just two sides of same coin... one optimistic... one not so much. My initial reply to SdB was simply to show it's too early to write him off to which he replied that wasn't what he intended to say.
Yes, it not a minor injury just as knees are not minor. Degree of tear is a factor as is age. But the surgical skill today is astounding.
In Vernon's case our Med Staff will be all over the surgical result, his rehab, etc. In other words they will know his prognosis long before any other team gets a sniff.
Motivation to return is the remaining big factor. This is Vernon's first significant injury. How he attacks his rehab will be the final piece of the resign decision... and again our Med Staff will have the inside info. They will determine his viability for 2021 and pass the info to Berry and Co.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It depends on the player, the position and the sport. Achilles injuries are pretty damn rough. I used to deal with strains a fair amount, its definitely not an injury I'd feel good about if it were a steeler and that's especially true with a defensive lineman that has to anchor and push against dudes paid to move mountains. However professional athletes are remarkable human beings and recovery is different because they are built different. Vernon isn't getting any younger.
26% of all ruptured achilles injuries end in retirement. They aren't minor injuries.
So odds are 3:1 on his recovery. How many of the retirements were at the end of their careers and not just approaching that stage as Vernon is?
That said....
Much to Gip's disappointment there's no real disagreement here... just two sides of same coin... one optimistic... one not so much. My initial reply to SdB was simply to show it's too early to write him off to which he replied that wasn't what he intended to say.
Yes, it not a minor injury just as knees are not minor. Degree of tear is a factor as is age. But the surgical skill today is astounding.
In Vernon's case our Med Staff will be all over the surgical result, his rehab, etc. In other words they will know his prognosis long before any other team gets a sniff.
Motivation to return is the remaining big factor. This is Vernon's first significant injury. How he attacks his rehab will be the final piece of the resign decision... and again our Med Staff will have the inside info. They will determine his viability for 2021 and pass the info to Berry and Co.
So odds are 3:1 on his recovery. How many of the retirements were at the end of their careers and not just approaching that stage as Vernon is?
That said....
Much to Gip's disappointment there's no real disagreement here... just two sides of same coin... one optimistic... one not so much. My initial reply to SdB was simply to show it's too early to write him off to which he replied that wasn't what he intended to say.
You say it could be a 4 month recovery, Vag says it could be much, much longer. I think that is what you call a disagreement. Yes, one is based on optimism, the other on pessimism...maybe. It is still a disagreement.
But: I hope you are right. For some of the reasons you cite herein:
Yes, it not a minor injury just as knees are not minor. Degree of tear is a factor as is age. But the surgical skill today is astounding.
In Vernon's case our Med Staff will be all over the surgical result, his rehab, etc. In other words they will know his prognosis long before any other team gets a sniff.
Motivation to return is the remaining big factor. This is Vernon's first significant injury. How he attacks his rehab will be the final piece of the resign decision... and again our Med Staff will have the inside info. They will determine his viability for 2021 and pass the info to Berry and Co.
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i agree...don't care for woods either....who is vernons' backup.....maybe he is a diamond in the rough....this is going to be a tough weekend....our qb pressure d is not all that great...at least vernon has been showing up lately.....lb's are not good and the db's are a mess with all the injuries and covid.....woods is going to have to come up with some kind of plan....good luck with that...
Send a couple guys outside your front four on a blitz?
Send a couple guys outside your front four on a blitz?
he hardly does that but i think we are in a situation where he is going to have to do it.....its all or nothing mode now....
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So odds are 3:1 on his recovery. How many of the retirements were at the end of their careers and not just approaching that stage as Vernon is?
That said....
Much to Gip's disappointment there's no real disagreement here... just two sides of same coin... one optimistic... one not so much. My initial reply to SdB was simply to show it's too early to write him off to which he replied that wasn't what he intended to say.
You say it could be a 4 month recovery, Vag says it could be much, much longer. I think that is what you call a disagreement. Yes, one is based on optimism, the other on pessimism...maybe. It is still a disagreement.
But: I hope you are right. For some of the reasons you cite herein:
Yes, it not a minor injury just as knees are not minor. Degree of tear is a factor as is age. But the surgical skill today is astounding.
In Vernon's case our Med Staff will be all over the surgical result, his rehab, etc. In other words they will know his prognosis long before any other team gets a sniff.
Motivation to return is the remaining big factor. This is Vernon's first significant injury. How he attacks his rehab will be the final piece of the resign decision... and again our Med Staff will have the inside info. They will determine his viability for 2021 and pass the info to Berry and Co.
I never said it was longer but I did say that guys don't always recover from them to regain everything they had before the injury. I agree with tour that surgery has come a very long way and surgeons can do remarkable things. It's a tough injury but not an impossible one.
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I never said it was longer but I did say that guys don't always recover from them to regain everything they had before the injury. I agree with tour that surgery has come a very long way and surgeons can do remarkable things. It's a tough injury but not an impossible one.
I never said it was longer but I did say that guys don't always recover from them to regain everything they had before the injury. I agree with tour that surgery has come a very long way and surgeons can do remarkable things. It's a tough injury but not an impossible one.
Hopefully a successful surgery and a short recovery. Nevertheless, I think the Browns need to do something in the draft early to take a DE. As much as we need LBs and DBs (though with DBs....what we need are the ones on the roster to be healthy).
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I never said it was longer but I did say that guys don't always recover from them to regain everything they had before the injury. I agree with tour that surgery has come a very long way and surgeons can do remarkable things. It's a tough injury but not an impossible one.
Hopefully a successful surgery and a short recovery. Nevertheless, I think the Browns need to do something in the draft early to take a DE. As much as we need LBs and DBs (though with DBs....what we need are the ones on the roster to be healthy).
Hopefully a successful surgery and a short recovery. Nevertheless, I think the Browns need to do something in the draft early to take a DE. As much as we need LBs and DBs (though with DBs....what we need are the ones on the roster to be healthy).
You need a linebacker more than you need a defensive end but it depends on how the draft falls. You all are going to be drafting a lot later than you are used to now. It could be best player available sort of thing. Drafting on need isn't always the best either.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Hopefully a successful surgery and a short recovery. Nevertheless, I think the Browns need to do something in the draft early to take a DE. As much as we need LBs and DBs (though with DBs....what we need are the ones on the roster to be healthy).
You need a linebacker more than you need a defensive end but it depends on how the draft falls. You all are going to be drafting a lot later than you are used to now. It could be best player available sort of thing. Drafting on need isn't always the best either.
You need a linebacker more than you need a defensive end but it depends on how the draft falls. You all are going to be drafting a lot later than you are used to now. It could be best player available sort of thing. Drafting on need isn't always the best either.
Yes, but sometimes if you get down to the 20s, unless there has been a major drop of a guy who was thought to go higher (like Aaron Rodgers).....there may be such very slight differences between who is considered BPA that it may still behoove you to go for need. I mean, right now it does not appear that the Browns would need a RB or any OTs or QB or TE or OGs...the way Teller and Bito are playing at a Pro Bowl level. So, at 22 say....it is wholly arguable that anyone available at those positions would be no more considered the BPA than a Defender would be. Here is one list of guys suspected to be ranked in that range:
21. Travis Etienne, RB, Clemson
22. Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri
23. Jevon Holland, S, Oregon24. Rashod Bateman, WR, Minnesota25. Mac Jones, QB, Alabama26. Pat Freiermuth, TE, Penn State
27. Christian Barmore, IDL, Alabama
28. Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, LB, Notre Dame29. Jalen Mayfield, OT, Michigan
30. Levi Onwuzurike, IDL, Washington
31. Patrick Jones II, EDGE, Pittsburgh32. Samuel Cosmi, OT, TexasIf all of these were available, I don't think the Browns would go for any of the ones I put a line through, and could concentrate on the other guys.
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Hopefully a successful surgery and a short recovery. Nevertheless, I think the Browns need to do something in the draft early to take a DE. As much as we need LBs and DBs (though with DBs....what we need are the ones on the roster to be healthy).
You need a linebacker more than you need a defensive end but it depends on how the draft falls. You all are going to be drafting a lot later than you are used to now. It could be best player available sort of thing. Drafting on need isn't always the best either.
Drafting on need isn't always the best either.
Actually it's the worst.... makes teams reach.
Rest of post was spot on...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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