JJ Watt to Cardinals
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This won't happen.
JJ has one season left - is it possible to sign him using all of our rollover cap? Yes!
And then once 2022 comes around.. we have zero cap space of any sort, Chubb and Ward's rookie contracts are up, and we get nothing for JJ leaving because he's no longer under contract.
Current salary already committed for 2021: 196M. Cap for 2020 was 198M. That difference [198-196, aka 2] is our true [long-term] cap space.
The reason it won't happen is that we need that rollover cap to keep getting rolled over so we can re-sign Chubb, Ward, and Baker to deals that allow us to continue to keep good players around them for many years not just one. As we have seen, Ward can't be the only non-replacement-level DB.
If we hadn't signed Kenny Britt and TJ Carrie, we'd have at least 25M more to roll over..
I am not sure where you are getting your cap numbers from. We are rolling over like 30 million. That roll over I believe has to go through some approval/vetting by the NFL before it becomes official. Also, multiple sites have us at 17 million plus cap space for 2021 and that assumes 175 million cap. So there is money there. And we havent extended Baker yet because I don't think you can do such negotiations until after the 3rd yr. Baker and Denzel don't have to be extended this yr, although doing so will probably be better in the long term then waiting. As for JJ, I wouldn't trade for him unless there is an agreement to redo his contract, 17m is just too much. But I would take him at around 10m or 20m over two.
I am not sure where you are getting your cap numbers from. We are rolling over like 30 million. That roll over I believe has to go through some approval/vetting by the NFL before it becomes official. Also, multiple sites have us at 17 million plus cap space for 2021 and that assumes 175 million cap. So there is money there. And we havent extended Baker yet because I don't think you can do such negotiations until after the 3rd yr. Baker and Denzel don't have to be extended this yr, although doing so will probably be better in the long term then waiting. As for JJ, I wouldn't trade for him unless there is an agreement to redo his contract, 17m is just too much. But I would take him at around 10m or 20m over two.
Yep!!!
If Baker, Chubb and Ward are not extended prior to this season ALL Three of their salaries will have a 4M increase to our cap.
And Correct, we have roll over money more than most teams and we had a discussion on here a few weeks ago folks were saying we had no cap.
THE CAP has NOT been set. And to further that point there is talk that it could be 175M there is other rumors it could be 188M.
And no one is asking nor is JJ Watt asking for a multi year deal. In fact, he’s on record prior to the Texan mess saying he wants to play out his contract.
From that I gather 1) he wants to play alongside his family in 2022 or 2) he wants to retire.
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I am not sure where you are getting your cap numbers from. We are rolling over like 30 million. That roll over I believe has to go through some approval/vetting by the NFL before it becomes official. Also, multiple sites have us at 17 million plus cap space for 2021 and that assumes 175 million cap. So there is money there. And we havent extended Baker yet because I don't think you can do such negotiations until after the 3rd yr. Baker and Denzel don't have to be extended this yr, although doing so will probably be better in the long term then waiting. As for JJ, I wouldn't trade for him unless there is an agreement to redo his contract, 17m is just too much. But I would take him at around 10m or 20m over two.
Yep!!!
If Baker, Chubb and Ward are not extended prior to this season ALL Three of their salaries will have a 4M increase to our cap.
And Correct, we have roll over money more than most teams and we had a discussion on here a few weeks ago folks were saying we had no cap.
THE CAP has NOT been set. And to further that point there is talk that it could be 175M there is other rumors it could be 188M.
And no one is asking nor is JJ Watt asking for a multi year deal. In fact, he’s on record prior to the Texan mess saying he wants to play out his contract.
From that I gather 1) he wants to play alongside his family in 2022 or 2) he wants to retire.
Yep!!!
If Baker, Chubb and Ward are not extended prior to this season ALL Three of their salaries will have a 4M increase to our cap.
And Correct, we have roll over money more than most teams and we had a discussion on here a few weeks ago folks were saying we had no cap.
THE CAP has NOT been set. And to further that point there is talk that it could be 175M there is other rumors it could be 188M.
And no one is asking nor is JJ Watt asking for a multi year deal. In fact, he’s on record prior to the Texan mess saying he wants to play out his contract.
From that I gather 1) he wants to play alongside his family in 2022 or 2) he wants to retire.
Well he might retire then, no way the Steelers can afford him they are already under water with the cap. I also heard that the NFL and NFLPA might agree to higher cap number to help teams out, so your 188m figure might be close to correct.
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This won't happen.
JJ has one season left - is it possible to sign him using all of our rollover cap? Yes!
And then once 2022 comes around.. we have zero cap space of any sort, Chubb and Ward's rookie contracts are up, and we get nothing for JJ leaving because he's no longer under contract.
Current salary already committed for 2021: 196M. Cap for 2020 was 198M. That difference [198-196, aka 2] is our true [long-term] cap space.
The reason it won't happen is that we need that rollover cap to keep getting rolled over so we can re-sign Chubb, Ward, and Baker to deals that allow us to continue to keep good players around them for many years not just one. As we have seen, Ward can't be the only non-replacement-level DB.
If we hadn't signed Kenny Britt and TJ Carrie, we'd have at least 25M more to roll over..
I am not sure where you are getting your cap numbers from. We are rolling over like 30 million. That roll over I believe has to go through some approval/vetting by the NFL before it becomes official. Also, multiple sites have us at 17 million plus cap space for 2021 and that assumes 175 million cap. So there is money there. And we havent extended Baker yet because I don't think you can do such negotiations until after the 3rd yr. Baker and Denzel don't have to be extended this yr, although doing so will probably be better in the long term then waiting. As for JJ, I wouldn't trade for him unless there is an agreement to redo his contract, 17m is just too much. But I would take him at around 10m or 20m over two.
I am not sure where you are getting your cap numbers from. We are rolling over like 30 million. That roll over I believe has to go through some approval/vetting by the NFL before it becomes official. Also, multiple sites have us at 17 million plus cap space for 2021 and that assumes 175 million cap. So there is money there. And we havent extended Baker yet because I don't think you can do such negotiations until after the 3rd yr. Baker and Denzel don't have to be extended this yr, although doing so will probably be better in the long term then waiting. As for JJ, I wouldn't trade for him unless there is an agreement to redo his contract, 17m is just too much. But I would take him at around 10m or 20m over two.
Uh---uhm, well, you know we ARE after Baker/Ward's 3rd year now. Sure, they don't have to extend them now.....they may never have to extend them if they don't want, but I don't see that. They could start working on it now if they wish I believe.
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Yep!!!
If Baker, Chubb and Ward are not extended prior to this season ALL Three of their salaries will have a 4M increase to our cap.
And Correct, we have roll over money more than most teams and we had a discussion on here a few weeks ago folks were saying we had no cap.
THE CAP has NOT been set. And to further that point there is talk that it could be 175M there is other rumors it could be 188M.
And no one is asking nor is JJ Watt asking for a multi year deal. In fact, he’s on record prior to the Texan mess saying he wants to play out his contract.
From that I gather 1) he wants to play alongside his family in 2022 or 2) he wants to retire.
Well he might retire then, no way the Steelers can afford him they are already under water with the cap. I also heard that the NFL and NFLPA might agree to higher cap number to help teams out, so your 188m figure might be close to correct.
Well he might retire then, no way the Steelers can afford him they are already under water with the cap. I also heard that the NFL and NFLPA might agree to higher cap number to help teams out, so your 188m figure might be close to correct.
Correct they have no room and are in fact in the hole by a lot.
Again we don’t know how much because the cap for 2021 has not been set.
The talk is he would take a BIG discount to play with his brothers after the Steelers essentially dismantle a lot of key components. Very possible- but he could be traded anywhere and it is believed he doesn’t have a no trade clause in his contract.
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OK Cap guru's ?... Can we Shoot any holes in this? ... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/02/four-moves-the-cleveland-browns-should-make-this-offseason.html
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
OK Cap guru's ?... Can we Shoot any holes in this? ... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/02/four-moves-the-cleveland-browns-should-make-this-offseason.html
OK Cap guru's ?... Can we Shoot any holes in this? ... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/02/four-moves-the-cleveland-browns-should-make-this-offseason.html
Opened it, saw MKC name, closed it.
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I am not sure where you are getting your cap numbers from. We are rolling over like 30 million. That roll over I believe has to go through some approval/vetting by the NFL before it becomes official. Also, multiple sites have us at 17 million plus cap space for 2021 and that assumes 175 million cap. So there is money there. And we havent extended Baker yet because I don't think you can do such negotiations until after the 3rd yr. Baker and Denzel don't have to be extended this yr, although doing so will probably be better in the long term then waiting. As for JJ, I wouldn't trade for him unless there is an agreement to redo his contract, 17m is just too much. But I would take him at around 10m or 20m over two.
Yep!!!
If Baker, Chubb and Ward are not extended prior to this season ALL Three of their salaries will have a 4M increase to our cap.
And Correct, we have roll over money more than most teams and we had a discussion on here a few weeks ago folks were saying we had no cap.
THE CAP has NOT been set. And to further that point there is talk that it could be 175M there is other rumors it could be 188M.
And no one is asking nor is JJ Watt asking for a multi year deal. In fact, he’s on record prior to the Texan mess saying he wants to play out his contract.
From that I gather 1) he wants to play alongside his family in 2022 or 2) he wants to retire.
From that I gather
1)he wants to play alongside his familyin 2022 or 2) he wants toand then retire.FIFY...
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OK Cap guru's ?... Can we Shoot any holes in this? ... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/02/four-moves-the-cleveland-browns-should-make-this-offseason.html
OK Cap guru's ?... Can we Shoot any holes in this? ... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/02/four-moves-the-cleveland-browns-should-make-this-offseason.html
With 5th year options for Baker and and Ward, and a "creative contract" to extend Chubb at its core, it's hardly outside-the-box thinking and is pretty much in line with our CAPacity.
Not so much for her EDGE options... Watt and Hendrickson... who couldn't be more different options. On one hand have a once-great vet in decline and on the other a fourth-year wonder set for FA off his rookie deal and a hot season. Neither is cap friendly... one is a rental the other likely an expensive roll of the dice.
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Premonition ? Or just a good picture.
He’s still a very good player but he’s not the same player he was at his peak, a five-time first-team All-Pro who won NFL defensive player of the year in 2012, 2014 and 2015. Watt has posted nine total sacks and 18 TFLs in his last 24 games.
If the Browns see Watt as an affordable stopgap contributor in 2021 to replace Olivier Vernon (and his torn Achilles), it’s possible Cleveland GM Andrew Berry makes the move. But don’t expect it to happen.
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I just don't understand why anyone who has followed along Watt's journey the last 5 years would seriously want him at the number he's being paid (even if he's a restructure). 2018 season aside, 2016-2017, and 2019-2020 were either serious injuries or just below average years. The dude was healthy enough to start every game this year, and I get the Texans were a bad team but I think it's apparent the injuries, and age, are catching. If it was a 1 year, $2.5 mill base type situation with incentive laden bonuses? Sure, let's see if there's still juice to squeeze. But not at his number, no way. I get it, the man was the best at the position for nearly 6 years, but that ship is sailing. Would MUCH rather get someone with upside, or if we want the veteran route target Yannick or something similar (and younger)
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I’d love to have Watt. Can I say it again again and again. He’s got a great attitude...definitely rub off positively on that side of the ball ( I think we need a leader badly on defense).
He’s not a starter. You put him on a pitch count. Draft another guy early to rotate in with him and learn from JJ. I can’t think of a better scenario.
For the cap people...1 year deal.
We need a better front 4. Ogunjobi isn’t coming back- who knows what we do with Richardson. I’m not counting on Vernon with an Achilles at 30+. And our D coordinator expects pressure from the front 4 with little help.
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I’d love to have Watt. Can I say it again again and again. He’s got a great attitude...definitely rub off positively on that side of the ball ( I think we need a leader badly on defense).
He’s not a starter. You put him on a pitch count. Draft another guy early to rotate in with him and learn from JJ. I can’t think of a better scenario.
For the cap people...1 year deal.
We need a better front 4. Ogunjobi isn’t coming back- who knows what we do with Richardson. I’m not counting on Vernon with an Achilles at 30+. And our D coordinator expects pressure from the front 4 with little help.
I’d love to have Watt. Can I say it again again and again. He’s got a great attitude...definitely rub off positively on that side of the ball ( I think we need a leader badly on defense).
He’s not a starter. You put him on a pitch count. Draft another guy early to rotate in with him and learn from JJ. I can’t think of a better scenario.
For the cap people...1 year deal.
We need a better front 4. Ogunjobi isn’t coming back- who knows what we do with Richardson. I’m not counting on Vernon with an Achilles at 30+. And our D coordinator expects pressure from the front 4 with little help.
Issue is, you don’t pay someone $17.5 million to be on a pitch count. Again, if watt was on one a year, lower base deal with incentives sure. But in a year where cap is going down and we have 3-4 key dudes to re-sign. One year or not, that doesn’t make sense. even one year dudes mess up abilities to sign players long-term. He would have to take a serious restructure to even consider it.
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fuck no.....way over his prime....this would be another blockheaded move like the willie mcginnis....scott fujita....jamal lewis moves.......like one of the posters said, we would be paying for his past performance....he's cooked....too many injuries..
If I recall, Jamal Lewis played pretty darn well for us in the time he was here. And McGinnis wasn't so bad either.
Lewis: 2 1000 yard seasons.
2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 59 66 4.4 86.9 19.9 39 30 248 8.3 2 8 34 2.0 16.5 76.9% 6.4 328 4.7 1552 11 4 13 2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 43 29 3.6 62.6 17.4 32 23 178 7.7 0 8 18 1.4 11.1 71.9% 5.6 302 3.9 1180 4 2 6 2009 30 CLE RB 31 9 8 143 500 0 18 18 3.5 55.6 15.9 11 8 88 11.0 0 5 19 0.9 9.8 72.7% 8.0 151 3.9 588 0 0 3 McGinest:
2006 35 CLE LOLB 55 14 13 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 4.0 45 36 9 8 10 6 2007 36 CLE LOLB 55 13 11 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 0 0 3.0 30 19 11 4 4 5 2008 37 CLE LOLB 55 14 14 0 0 0 0 2 1.0 57 44 13 5 9 If I recall, Jamal Lewis played pretty darn well for us in the time he was here. And McGinnis wasn't so bad either.
Lewis: 2 1000 yard seasons.
2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 59 66 4.4 86.9 19.9 39 30 248 8.3 2 8 34 2.0 16.5 76.9% 6.4 328 4.7 1552 11 4 13 2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 43 29 3.6 62.6 17.4 32 23 178 7.7 0 8 18 1.4 11.1 71.9% 5.6 302 3.9 1180 4 2 6 2009 30 CLE RB 31 9 8 143 500 0 18 18 3.5 55.6 15.9 11 8 88 11.0 0 5 19 0.9 9.8 72.7% 8.0 151 3.9 588 0 0 3 McGinest:
2006 35 CLE LOLB 55 14 13 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 4.0 45 36 9 8 10 6 2007 36 CLE LOLB 55 13 11 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 0 0 3.0 30 19 11 4 4 5 2008 37 CLE LOLB 55 14 14 0 0 0 0 2 1.0 57 44 13 5 9 If I recall, Jamal Lewis played pretty darn well for us in the time he was here. And McGinnis wasn't so bad either.
Lewis: 2 1000 yard seasons.
2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 59 66 4.4 86.9 19.9 39 30 248 8.3 2 8 34 2.0 16.5 76.9% 6.4 328 4.7 1552 11 4 13 2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 43 29 3.6 62.6 17.4 32 23 178 7.7 0 8 18 1.4 11.1 71.9% 5.6 302 3.9 1180 4 2 6 2009 30 CLE RB 31 9 8 143 500 0 18 18 3.5 55.6 15.9 11 8 88 11.0 0 5 19 0.9 9.8 72.7% 8.0 151 3.9 588 0 0 3 McGinest:
2006 35 CLE LOLB 55 14 13 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 4.0 45 36 9 8 10 6 2007 36 CLE LOLB 55 13 11 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 0 0 3.0 30 19 11 4 4 5 2008 37 CLE LOLB 55 14 14 0 0 0 0 2 1.0 57 44 13 5 9 both those guys were not anywhere near what they used to be before coming to cleveland.....thats why their former teams got rid of them... neither of them were long term prospects.....anymore...
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If I recall, Jamal Lewis played pretty darn well for us in the time he was here. And McGinnis wasn't so bad either.
Lewis: 2 1000 yard seasons.
2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 59 66 4.4 86.9 19.9 39 30 248 8.3 2 8 34 2.0 16.5 76.9% 6.4 328 4.7 1552 11 4 13 2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 43 29 3.6 62.6 17.4 32 23 178 7.7 0 8 18 1.4 11.1 71.9% 5.6 302 3.9 1180 4 2 6 2009 30 CLE RB 31 9 8 143 500 0 18 18 3.5 55.6 15.9 11 8 88 11.0 0 5 19 0.9 9.8 72.7% 8.0 151 3.9 588 0 0 3 McGinest:
2006 35 CLE LOLB 55 14 13 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 4.0 45 36 9 8 10 6 2007 36 CLE LOLB 55 13 11 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 0 0 3.0 30 19 11 4 4 5 2008 37 CLE LOLB 55 14 14 0 0 0 0 2 1.0 57 44 13 5 9 If I recall, Jamal Lewis played pretty darn well for us in the time he was here. And McGinnis wasn't so bad either.
Lewis: 2 1000 yard seasons.
2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 59 66 4.4 86.9 19.9 39 30 248 8.3 2 8 34 2.0 16.5 76.9% 6.4 328 4.7 1552 11 4 13 2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 43 29 3.6 62.6 17.4 32 23 178 7.7 0 8 18 1.4 11.1 71.9% 5.6 302 3.9 1180 4 2 6 2009 30 CLE RB 31 9 8 143 500 0 18 18 3.5 55.6 15.9 11 8 88 11.0 0 5 19 0.9 9.8 72.7% 8.0 151 3.9 588 0 0 3 McGinest:
2006 35 CLE LOLB 55 14 13 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 0 4.0 45 36 9 8 10 6 2007 36 CLE LOLB 55 13 11 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 1 0 0 3.0 30 19 11 4 4 5 2008 37 CLE LOLB 55 14 14 0 0 0 0 2 1.0 57 44 13 5 9 both those guys were not anywhere near what they used to be before coming to cleveland.....thats why their former teams got rid of them... neither of them were long term prospects.....anymore...
both those guys were not anywhere near what they used to be before coming to cleveland.....thats why their former teams got rid of them... neither of them were long term prospects.....anymore...
No, but they were contributors. Lewis was still on his form for a couple of years: 1300 yards is damned good.
And if you bring in a veteran FA ....at no real cost except money (no players, no picks).... that could be a win/win. Or at least a "no big loss" deal if the player does not work out.
I think this team this year could have benefitted from that this year in the LB unit.
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both those guys were not anywhere near what they used to be before coming to cleveland.....thats why their former teams got rid of them... neither of them were long term prospects.....anymore...
No, but they were contributors. Lewis was still on his form for a couple of years: 1300 yards is damned good.
And if you bring in a veteran FA ....at no real cost except money (no players, no picks).... that could be a win/win. Or at least a "no big loss" deal if the player does not work out.
I think this team this year could have benefitted from that this year in the LB unit.
No, but they were contributors. Lewis was still on his form for a couple of years: 1300 yards is damned good.
And if you bring in a veteran FA ....at no real cost except money (no players, no picks).... that could be a win/win. Or at least a "no big loss" deal if the player does not work out.
I think this team this year could have benefitted from that this year in the LB unit.
We will probably turn over and lose some vets- Sendejo, Vernon, Goodson, Joseph maybe even Ogunjobi. We have 9 draft picks on top of a younger roster.
We could use some vets on one year deals.
I think they tried late with a guy like Malcolm Smith. At the start of the year, I was hoping they would sign some vets at certain position groups (insurance against covid). I think the FO thought they would get a little more out of Mack Wilson too.
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JJ stokin' things a lil...
J.J. Watt sends another interesting tweet about Texans' personnel move (msn.com)
The Texans have made several personnel changes this offseason, and reports have indicated Watson and other veteran players are not pleased. One of the moves was firing equipment manager Mike Parson and his staff. Watt took to Twitter on Sunday to praise Parson and say, "Anybody would be lucky to have" him.
On the surface, that looks like merely a nice endorsement from Watt. But if you have followed the situation in Houston, you have to wonder if Watt was doing more than just praising a former Texans employee.
ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported on Sunday that Parson and Watson are close, and Watson is not happy that the Texans let Parson and his staff go. The same is likely true for Watt.
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https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/j-j-watt-released-by-houston/
I would do a 1 year contract with him... At a reasonable price... but I'm sure he'll be lookin for that twilight haul in....
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Worth a shot?
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I definitely get the sense JJ is going to take less money to play for a winner. No way he leaves 17.5 million on the table if he didn’t feel that way.
take a look at 2020 stats, though. The man was seemingly healthy (played all 16) and had below average stats across the board. That being said? As I said in the other thread, a 2 year deal with opt out after year one, and incentive laden may be worth a serious look.
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