2021 'Who are you watching?' NFL prospect thread.

[Unsympathetic]

The Indiana guy who picked Justin Fields 2x and caused a lot of havoc in that game is Jamar Johnson who got a combine invite.. Although the nfl.com rating suggests he'll be taken day2, when he's inevitably still around in round5 he seems worth a shot.  He's not on WalterFootball's list of prospects.. He's not nobody, he's 2020 first team all-big-10

[When Kollmann in that video says "Who is #22 on indiana, I've gotta look at him" .. that's this guy]

[tiamat63]

The Machine Shop will be open around 1pm EST to finish up the 2nd half of Patrick Jones v Lou.  Might skip forward at that point to a couple games later in the 2020 season to look for signs of improvement. 

After that? Dealers choice.  We could watch Zaven Collins, that kid out of TCU (Moerhig? - spell check)   I think there were a couple requests from locals, just can't recall.    

@texasag1969 didn't you want Basham (another spell check) from the U? 

@mld-woody I believe you wanted Kwity?  

Either way, I have a Sunday to myself. Going to relax and watch some film.   If you don't have the discord info, check back in the thread or feel free to PM.  Not sure what album we'll be listening to yet.

[MLD Woody]

@tiamat63 said:

The Machine Shop will be open around 1pm EST to finish up the 2nd half of Patrick Jones v Lou.  Might skip forward at that point to a couple games later in the 2020 season to look for signs of improvement. 

After that? Dealers choice.  We could watch Zaven Collins, that kid out of TCU (Moerhig? - spell check)   I think there were a couple requests from locals, just can't recall.    

@texasag1969 didn't you want Basham (another spell check) from the U? 

@mld-woody I believe you wanted Kwity?  

Either way, I have a Sunday to myself. Going to relax and watch some film.   If you don't have the discord info, check back in the thread or feel free to PM.  Not sure what album we'll be listening to yet.

Sure, Kwity would be interesting. The biggest boost to his stock was going to be the combine unfortunately. 

Looks like he'll be gone by the time we pick, even though we could use another DE. 

Feel free to pick whoever you want. I just like reading the michigan scouting reports.

[tiamat63]

Patrick Jones v LOU 2020

@ 0:11 - Keep outside shoulder free and eyes up with inital job to get outside of that stretch guard.  Extends arms when generating contact, eyes working, uses contact momentum to get off block and works to the QB.

@ 1:05 -   Still feeling like he comes out of his stance higher than what he should be.  Initiates contact with arms, lower pad level then chest and shoulder contact.
          Leg drive acceptable but still needs to work on remaining lower, great upper body strength and walks the tackle back to the QB trying to free inside shoulder leverage.
          OT play is average, not a natural waist bender and overset to the edge.  Good on Jonesy for capitalizing. 

  
@ 1:25 - LT and LG on an X (cross) block.  Nothing really special here, plays his assignment right getting outside of and holding a hard edge. 
         X block is when a tackle and guard (usually weakside) exchange assignment. So you'll have a tackle move for a downblock while the guard peels and looks for the edge. 
         Really just meant to give your tackles a better blocking angle and first step to take on bigger assignments. 

@ 1:45 - I know I can't be the only one who see's his first few steps.  I swear, I need a speed coach in here to better articulate what I'm seeing and trying to say.   
         But there is a good reason Patrick has a nice first step but doesn't have that elite speed to the edge.  

@ 2:17 - Stance, to first step to that initial dominant lead foot push.  This rep was a piss-poor example of bending around and turning the edge.  I don't think PJ is a bad athlete and I'm sure his pro day numbers will look good.  But I can't help and feel his technique is costing him his burst that actually would allow him to really attack, dip/sink and bend.  Instead of his hips sinking and his body turning to minimize contact, Patrick really just lowers his shoulders and his head (eyes low, can't see target) into the tackle, hands behind him like he's some kind of sprinter, and his upper body weight too far out  in front of his base.  Therefore beyond being compact and in control. 

@ 2:47 - Locked up, slide to his side. But does a good job keeping eyes on the QB, shedding the tackle and reading scramble drill at least.

@ 3:12 - Protection bust on a slant.  Guard is expecting the center to pick up Jones, free path to the QB.  

@ 3:35 - The 3-3 looks like Pitt uses on passing downs. They do a good job of slanting and opening rush lanes for their designated pass rushers.
        The movement from the 2pt rushers has a decent effect confusing blocking assignments pre-snap.  Here with the nose playing a bit of a shade and the LB on the Noses' hip, 
        The center and the guard have to account for them if they're both attacking.  Free's up Jonesy on the RT.     Rt oversets just a couple steps and again leans into the contact with his eyes down. Jonesy see's this similar tech (or at least the coaches did and were probably in his ear about it on the sides)   show's that spin move, which is by no means polished, but at least  It's a glimpse into a younger player working to have a counter move.     Want to see what a spin-move should look like?  Youtube Dwight Freeney.  Best spin move I've ever seen IMHO.The hip sink needs improvement.  What PJ DOES do great here with the spin is the club with the right hand, which naturally turns your shoulders and torso outside, then uses the left arm for momentum/push off and further balance.  I like seeing the machinery, but the tools themselves need refined.   Hey, that's better than a lot of these kids that don't even display this much at least. QB does a decent job being an athlete, trying to get out of the rush. Jones never gives up and finishes off the pressure after missing the sack at first. 

        Side note - #17 has flashed a few times over the last game and 1/2.

@ 3:52 - Good example of his raw strength, playing as the "closed" end here.   Toss in the guard not playing technically sound, opening his shoulders and getting slapped around.    Arms and contact working to keep the guard to his inside shoulder.  Eyes up pushing upfield into the gap, shows up out of control but the length he has allows him to disrupt ANY running lane the RB had on the IZ to that call.  Rest of the defense rallies to the ball.    Ideally that's a play I need to see you Make when you win like that so clearly off snap. But at the moment I'll settle for the fact I see a ton of developmental potential.

@ 4:23 - I can't tell if this is a really shitty short-set by the OT, which given what I've seen so far wouldn't surprise me.  Or if this is a technique by design from the LOU coaching staff to take advantage of PJ's willingness to fly up field at times and taking himself out of plays.   Either way, he doesn't go for it and does a decent job stacking on and rolling around the tackle while trying to keep the ball carrier in reach to disengage.

@ 4:39 - #17 - getting ahead of a sift block and generating pressure.  This was the play LOU housed from earlier in the game, minus the fact they didn't bring the upback through the hole to the zone side. They tried to use him to throw this sift at the WDE.

@ 5:10 - Leaving your feet is exactly how you get fucked up.  I have zero idea what this was trying to be.

@ 5:47 - Good "feel" with the release of the lineman trying to work this screen.  Get into the throwing lane and make life hell on the QB trying to float it high to the perimeter.

Opinion really hasn't changed after 2 full games.   Physically a wonderfully gifted player but limited, if not outright handicapped, by his lack of polish.  Once again saw a couple tools here or there, I'm sure some coach(es) somewhere will always believe they can take those one or two things and turn them into an arsenal.  And they may be very right about that.   But there are many worse prospect,  physically gifted, that you could have to work with to mold into a decent NFL player.    Still rather muddle on a greater assessment that will be more clear with the later season watches.  As of the LOU game? I'm not putting a 1st round pick into this kid if I'm Barry.   Not because I don't believe he could be a contributor, but because if the Browns want to open and keep open a Superbowl window for the next 3-5, then I need immediate players/starters with my 1st round picks.    Right now Jones is a rotational player while you work with him to grow a more consistent skill set and playing style.

[TexasAg1969]

@tiamat63 said:

The Machine Shop will be open around 1pm EST to finish up the 2nd half of Patrick Jones v Lou.  Might skip forward at that point to a couple games later in the 2020 season to look for signs of improvement. 

After that? Dealers choice.  We could watch Zaven Collins, that kid out of TCU (Moerhig? - spell check)   I think there were a couple requests from locals, just can't recall.    

@texasag1969 didn't you want Basham (another spell check) from the U? 

@mld-woody I believe you wanted Kwity?  

Either way, I have a Sunday to myself. Going to relax and watch some film.   If you don't have the discord info, check back in the thread or feel free to PM.  Not sure what album we'll be listening to yet.

Dutch was asking for Basham. I have no memory of pre-winterization of Texas and securing COVID vaccines (just completed the 2nd  on Wed.) simultaneously. ? 

@dutch-oven said:

I'm hoping for a Carlos Basham, Jr. breakdown.... 

[gumby73]

I'm hoping for a Carlos Basham, Jr. breakdown.... 

Ian Cummings is a fair ACC writer.. imo. this is not far off from late January..  https://www.profootballnetwork.com/carlos-basham-jr-nfl-draft-player-profile-wake-forest-edge-rusher/ 

I'm interested to read, if he trims down or up? from Senior Bowl to his Pro day?

[Unsympathetic]

I'd like to see tape on Zaven from Tulsa.. Tulsa plays a lot of tight front with LB's nesting from A to C gap; coverage-wise it's 100% spot drop zone.. Super athletic, sure, but some NFL DC's have said they couldn't teach him over/under/etc concepts in an entire offseason.  He's never played a down of man pass defense.. I have concerns..

[calfoxwc]

@unsympathetic said:

I'd like to see tape on Zaven from Tulsa.. Tulsa plays a lot of tight front with LB's nesting from A to C gap; coverage-wise it's 100% spot drop zone.. Super athletic, sure, but some NFL DC's have said they couldn't teach him over/under/etc concepts in an entire offseason.  He's never played a down of man pass defense.. I have concerns..

   As a huge Zaven Collins fan - it is a concern - does he have NFL coverage man to man speed? don't know. he does have outstanding instincts, but at the pro level....

[calfoxwc]

  Regardless, I'm still also a big fan of Jabril Cox. He might break a 4.6 forty. I've compared Cox to Ray Lewis, and

have compared Collins to Clay Mathews of the Browns. I don't know his eval at man to man, you betcha - but he's still my

first round draft pick - I think Zaven Collins goes well before the Browns' pick at 26. And Jabril is gone by the Browns next pick.

We'll see ...

[gumby73]

@gumby73 said:

I've kept my eyes on a few days of these.. The debate is "official* 40 times clocking".. Regardless... This is still fast for a Browns scouted twice WR last season... https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/27/rashod-bateman-runs-a-sub-4-4-40-yard-dash-at-exos-combine/?partner=Yahoo

Former WR Brandon Marshall's, 'House of Athletes' combine runs from 3-5-21 thru 3-7-21.. It can be streamed at FoxSports.com .. Glenn Cook is the Browns VP of player personal.      https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/03/03/nfl-combine-2021-scratched-how-evaluate-draft-prospects/6891217002/

Here's a few results from EXOS & B.Marshall's fitness center tune-up combines...  https://www.rotoviz.com/2021/03/2021-nfl-pro-day-season-schedule-results/

This just in.. DB's Eric Stokes & Kary Vincent Jr. are fast ?... Denzel Ward ran a 4.32

Pro days continue Tuesday..Northwestern=== Browns scouts will attend

[tiamat63]

When I finish up with Jones I'll get Basham per @dutch-oven then move to Collins.

Edit: kind of lonely in the film room, by the way.  Figured we would have more interested eyes while creeping up on Draft day.

[SdBacker80]

@calfoxwc said:

  Regardless, I'm still also a big fan of Jabril Cox. He might break a 4.6 forty. I've compared Cox to Ray Lewis, and

have compared Collins to Clay Mathews of the Browns. I don't know his eval at man to man, you betcha - but he's still my

first round draft pick - I think Zaven Collins goes well before the Browns' pick at 26. And Jabril is gone by the Browns next pick.

We'll see ...

I don’t see Ray Lewis.

Im Seeing Lavonte David. 
 

Cox would instantly become the best coverage backer we have and he looks like he wraps up better than most of our guys.  He plays like a safety.  

[tiamat63]

@unsympathetic said:

I'd like to see tape on Zaven from Tulsa.. Tulsa plays a lot of tight front with LB's nesting from A to C gap; coverage-wise it's 100% spot drop zone.. Super athletic, sure, but some NFL DC's have said they couldn't teach him over/under/etc concepts in an entire offseason.  He's never played a down of man pass defense.. I have concerns..

Tulsa plays a good deal of 3-3. So those "tight" fronts are interior occupying concepts. Bear, eagle, okie.  All have blended gap calls. Some one player, some two players.   Have your bigger bodies eat space between inside shade on the OT's all the way to the center.  Different fronts will have a different LB in the nest, that's standard for every defense. 

Who are these NFL DC's who made the assessment they couldn't teach Collins their calls in an off-season?  And if they exist on record, then a rookie LB not being up to speed in the course of one off-season is....pretty common.

[Unsympathetic]

That was Kollmann's direct quote near the end of his long video of OSU vs Indiana when he did some impromptu Q&A.  Guessing the DC's are his sources at different teams.. he worked at NFL network for 5 years.

Interesting to find out things that are actually an issue with a prospect vs items that just takes reps/time to become muscle memory.

[tiamat63]

@tour2ma

For giggles I had Kellen Mond v UNC on my recommended list and figured I'd give him 30 minutes of my time.

I know he's your dark-horse, but I'm not quite seeing that "Dak-ness" with this one.     So far in this early game he's had some happy feet and some spotty late throws.

[calfoxwc]

Florida Gators kicker Evan McPherson has declared for the NFL Draft, he announced on Twitter. The third-year kicker from Fort Payne, Ala., is regarded as one of the most accurate in program history.

Question is, how high a late round would I pick him? I'm betting he won't be a UDFA....

[The Gipper]

@calfoxwc said:

Florida Gators kicker Evan McPherson has declared for the NFL Draft, he announced on Twitter. The third-year kicker from Fort Payne, Ala., is regarded as one of the most accurate in program history.

Question is, how high a late round would I pick him? I'm betting he won't be a UDFA....

[Tour2ma]

@tiamat63 said:

@tour2ma For giggles I had Kellen Mond v UNC on my recommended list and figured I'd give him 30 minutes of my time

I know he's your dark-horse, but I'm not quite seeing that "Dak-ness" with this one.     So far in this early game he's had some happy feet and some spotty late throws. 

He's not Dak in his Senior year, but I see the same trajectory Dak was on as a Junior.

Focus on Mond's delivery mechanics... throws from his earhole, so release is very quick. I'm hard pressed to recall a quicker one. Plus he has plenty of arm... good size and speed with fair agility.

As season goes on I think you will see a better pocket presence.

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

He's not Dak in his Senior year, but I see the same trajectory Dak was on as a Junior.

Focus on Mond's delivery mechanics... throws from his earhole, so release is very quick. I'm hard pressed to recall a quicker one. Plus he has plenty of arm... good size and speed with fair agility.

As season goes on I think you will see a better pocket presence.

Dan Marino?

[LondonBrown]

So the Johnson signing probably means a safety is out in the first round?

Any corners going to be around that late, linebacker maybe?