2021 'Who are you watching?' NFL prospect thread.

[calfoxwc]

  Regardless, I'm still also a big fan of Jabril Cox. He might break a 4.6 forty. I've compared Cox to Ray Lewis, and

have compared Collins to Clay Mathews of the Browns. I don't know his eval at man to man, you betcha - but he's still my

first round draft pick - I think Zaven Collins goes well before the Browns' pick at 26. And Jabril is gone by the Browns next pick.

We'll see ...

[gumby73]

@gumby73 said:

I've kept my eyes on a few days of these.. The debate is "official* 40 times clocking".. Regardless... This is still fast for a Browns scouted twice WR last season... https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/02/27/rashod-bateman-runs-a-sub-4-4-40-yard-dash-at-exos-combine/?partner=Yahoo

Former WR Brandon Marshall's, 'House of Athletes' combine runs from 3-5-21 thru 3-7-21.. It can be streamed at FoxSports.com .. Glenn Cook is the Browns VP of player personal.      https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/03/03/nfl-combine-2021-scratched-how-evaluate-draft-prospects/6891217002/

Here's a few results from EXOS & B.Marshall's fitness center tune-up combines...  https://www.rotoviz.com/2021/03/2021-nfl-pro-day-season-schedule-results/

This just in.. DB's Eric Stokes & Kary Vincent Jr. are fast ?... Denzel Ward ran a 4.32

Pro days continue Tuesday..Northwestern=== Browns scouts will attend

[tiamat63]

When I finish up with Jones I'll get Basham per @dutch-oven then move to Collins.

Edit: kind of lonely in the film room, by the way.  Figured we would have more interested eyes while creeping up on Draft day.

[SdBacker80]

@calfoxwc said:

  Regardless, I'm still also a big fan of Jabril Cox. He might break a 4.6 forty. I've compared Cox to Ray Lewis, and

have compared Collins to Clay Mathews of the Browns. I don't know his eval at man to man, you betcha - but he's still my

first round draft pick - I think Zaven Collins goes well before the Browns' pick at 26. And Jabril is gone by the Browns next pick.

We'll see ...

I don’t see Ray Lewis.

Im Seeing Lavonte David. 
 

Cox would instantly become the best coverage backer we have and he looks like he wraps up better than most of our guys.  He plays like a safety.  

[tiamat63]

@unsympathetic said:

I'd like to see tape on Zaven from Tulsa.. Tulsa plays a lot of tight front with LB's nesting from A to C gap; coverage-wise it's 100% spot drop zone.. Super athletic, sure, but some NFL DC's have said they couldn't teach him over/under/etc concepts in an entire offseason.  He's never played a down of man pass defense.. I have concerns..

Tulsa plays a good deal of 3-3. So those "tight" fronts are interior occupying concepts. Bear, eagle, okie.  All have blended gap calls. Some one player, some two players.   Have your bigger bodies eat space between inside shade on the OT's all the way to the center.  Different fronts will have a different LB in the nest, that's standard for every defense. 

Who are these NFL DC's who made the assessment they couldn't teach Collins their calls in an off-season?  And if they exist on record, then a rookie LB not being up to speed in the course of one off-season is....pretty common.

[Unsympathetic]

That was Kollmann's direct quote near the end of his long video of OSU vs Indiana when he did some impromptu Q&A.  Guessing the DC's are his sources at different teams.. he worked at NFL network for 5 years.

Interesting to find out things that are actually an issue with a prospect vs items that just takes reps/time to become muscle memory.

[tiamat63]

@tour2ma

For giggles I had Kellen Mond v UNC on my recommended list and figured I'd give him 30 minutes of my time.

I know he's your dark-horse, but I'm not quite seeing that "Dak-ness" with this one.     So far in this early game he's had some happy feet and some spotty late throws.

[calfoxwc]

Florida Gators kicker Evan McPherson has declared for the NFL Draft, he announced on Twitter. The third-year kicker from Fort Payne, Ala., is regarded as one of the most accurate in program history.

Question is, how high a late round would I pick him? I'm betting he won't be a UDFA....

[The Gipper]

@calfoxwc said:

Florida Gators kicker Evan McPherson has declared for the NFL Draft, he announced on Twitter. The third-year kicker from Fort Payne, Ala., is regarded as one of the most accurate in program history.

Question is, how high a late round would I pick him? I'm betting he won't be a UDFA....

[Tour2ma]

@tiamat63 said:

@tour2ma For giggles I had Kellen Mond v UNC on my recommended list and figured I'd give him 30 minutes of my time

I know he's your dark-horse, but I'm not quite seeing that "Dak-ness" with this one.     So far in this early game he's had some happy feet and some spotty late throws. 

He's not Dak in his Senior year, but I see the same trajectory Dak was on as a Junior.

Focus on Mond's delivery mechanics... throws from his earhole, so release is very quick. I'm hard pressed to recall a quicker one. Plus he has plenty of arm... good size and speed with fair agility.

As season goes on I think you will see a better pocket presence.

[The Gipper]

@tour2ma said:

He's not Dak in his Senior year, but I see the same trajectory Dak was on as a Junior.

Focus on Mond's delivery mechanics... throws from his earhole, so release is very quick. I'm hard pressed to recall a quicker one. Plus he has plenty of arm... good size and speed with fair agility.

As season goes on I think you will see a better pocket presence.

Dan Marino?

[LondonBrown]

So the Johnson signing probably means a safety is out in the first round?

Any corners going to be around that late, linebacker maybe? 

[calfoxwc]

https://www.si.com/college/florida/football/florida-gators-evan-mcpherson-nfl-draft-team-meetings

Former Gators Kicker Evan McPherson Drawing Plenty of NFL Interest

"McPherson has reportedly drawn plenty of interest from teams across the NFL as he prepares for the upcoming draft. According to Justin Melo of The Draft Network, McPherson has been in contact with the Cleveland Browns, Minnesota Vikings, Seattle Seahawks, New England Patriots, Miami Dolphins, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers, Buffalo Bills, Cincinnati Bengals, Green Bay Packers, Indianapolis Colts, Denver Broncos, Dallas Cowboys, Arizona Cardinals, and San Francisco 49ers. "

[Tour2ma]

@londonbrown said:

So the Johnson signing probably means a safety is out in the first round?

Any corners going to be around that late, linebacker maybe? 

LBs definitely... latest stuff I've been reading has as many as 6 going in round one. There's going to be one there come pick 26.

CBs? Only two or three are getting first round buzz. Two are top 20 with the third not a consensus round one guy.

[LondonBrown]

@tour2ma said:

LBs definitely... latest stuff I've been reading has as many as 6 going in round one. There's going to be one there come pick 26.

CBs? Only two or three are getting first round buzz. Two are top 20 with the third not a consensus round one guy.

Cool, I have seen claims that this FO and coaching staff aren't too fussed about LB's and will get them later

[tiamat63]

@tour2ma said:

He's not Dak in his Senior year, but I see the same trajectory Dak was on as a Junior.

Focus on Mond's delivery mechanics... throws from his earhole, so release is very quick. I'm hard pressed to recall a quicker one. Plus he has plenty of arm... good size and speed with fair agility.

As season goes on I think you will see a better pocket presence.

So go back and youtube to refresh your memory if need be, but my comparison both mechanics and arm strength wise for Mond is Sam Bradford.    Both have that from the ear release and decent arm strength.     My issue with Mond so far in my limited viewing has been his timing and ball placement.  There was one in particular in this cutup that was kind of the synopsis of his short coming.

@ 2:52    2 man scissor vs man coverage. Or at least a bad pass off in cover 3.   But if this ball were delivered on time and ahead of the receiver, it's a touchdown.  Instead the late throw and behind placement gave the DB time to recover.  

[tiamat63]

@ 3:52 

JJ is man on the #2 in the empty set.  Peaks the downblock, turns his eyes immediately back into the interior,  says "fuck it" and attacks the clear crease over the RG. 

And you can hear that 'POP' too.              Another reason why I call JJ a younger version of Malcolm Jenkins.  He's a DB who isn't afraid to go get contact.     

[tiamat63]

@londonbrown

JC Jackson.  Here is what I can tell you.

He ain't 6'1 like he's listed.  And he is for damn certain not 200lbs.  He's 5'10ish 190lbs. 

- Decent arm length

- good patience in his mirror

- good pad level and eye discipline 

- lacks elite twitch, hip fluidity and recovery speed.

He is the typical late round DB that NE has done a great job coaching up over the years.  Especially in man coverage outside and to the boundary.  He uses his patience and contact away from the line to squeeze and trail defenders in man.    He sort of has qualities of Kary Vincent (you've probably seen me gush over) minus the elite foot speed.  Though KV is probably a half inch shorter and a few pounds lighter.

[tiamat63]

@ :42  - I hate seeing my edge take a hard inside shoulder, then stack too upright and lean into the block.  PJ ends up sideways then on his ass.
         OT really never lost leverage here so I don't necessarily mark that as a dub for Jones.

@ :51  -  2nd and 8 and there really isn't much width on this split. Damn near playing a heads up look. A decent enough take off, but I still can't shake this feeling of his
         speed being handicapped by running technique and footwork.  His weight to burst transition just looks so damn unnatural at times.  Still, Jones gets the corner here but 
         but I just don't see the constant sink in his hips and flattening out to really bend these into sacks. Granted, King's mobility complicates matters.  PJ still registered the pressure                      and forced the scramble.

@ 1:00  -  Not attacking so far upfield, obvious Miami is a running team and you have to respect your assignment on the early downs.  Realizes Kings last scramble was to his side so                staying light footed and hoping King anticipates pressure, maybe walks into a sack/TFL as opposed to actually sensing pressure.   Side note - great play design and sell by both the QB AND the RB.   Back releases like he's the lead and b-lines it for the WILL backer like he's about to light a MF up.  Only to bend it back inside and upfield.    Good call, good design, great execution.   

@ 1:27 -  Pitt moving to more of their 33 looks on passing situations. Again gets Jones 1 on 1 with the OT because of the 6man pressure.  OUTSTANDING pick up on the B-gap safety by the running back by the way. He went and got contact before contact found him, then did a reasonably good job at fighting to hold his ground.  Anywho, back to Jonesy.   Another decent take off and a slight dip of the shoulder.   I would criticize his hips and surface area for the OT to strike, but with the depth of King on this drop, you have a much more "linear" path to the QB.  There really isn't a corner to bend around so this SHOULD have been easy pickings.    But the finish is where I give bad marks going back to his center of gravity.  He didn't have to sink and bend to win the corner, but you still need to arrive under control, maximize your reach and take this QB down.   Yes, King is mobile.  But this is a sack  that a premier first round talent makes and should make look pretty routine.  The OT combined with the depth of QB drop handed it to Jones on a plate and he just couldn't close.   Like in sales, A.B.C.  Always. Be. Closing.

@ 2:46 -  I'm convinced Jones didn't give a single fuck about sacking King or generating a pressure.  The few cuts before this were gap power runs and the LT didn't let up on Jones until the whistle was clearly done.  It was looking to get real chippy real damn quick between these two and I think this was that response.  Jones is playing more of a 7tech here and screams off the edge.  But watch what he does - no disengage, no head movement, no arms trying to get span and bring down the QB.  Nope, he is taking this LT for a walk in the fucking park.   QB is even climbing to escape and Jones is more worried about putting the LT straight back on his ass.      Our boy's got an attitude.   I like that (sort of)

@ 3:44 -  Instead of taking that extra half second to setup his move, Jones just launches himself, literally leaving his feet, into the guards inside shoulder.  Lucky he didn't get absolutely fucking planted here.

@ 4:05 -  Strong initial contact, gets his right hand free extending onto the OT with his left arm.  Eyes up and locates the RB while working upfield.  Forces the RB to take a negative depth of first cut, get wide and pray to recover back to the LOS.  Gives time for the calvary to arrive while Jones disengages and has the motor for pursuit which he cleans up.    That's good work playing a strong side end here.   Not only does he basically make this play
         and allows his teammates to arrive, he comes in to make sure it goes nowhere.

@ 4:55 -  IZ read on the backside 3 tech.  LG gets a chip then works to the weakside backer.  3 tech steps down to the RB on the mesh, King keeps and moves to the open B gap with some nice footwork.   Nothing really against Jones here,  he likely wouldn't have been able to stack and shed that well to shut down this read.  But if he would have? Cot damn...    Just wanted to highlight the first inside read I had seen so far.

@ 5:06 -  Frontside double power, looks like the center and right tackle. Patrick does a good job holding his ground against the lead, forcing the RB to flat cut outside for any shot at daylight. Cut that flat to the boundary (short side) doesn't always bode well for a ball carrier.   Safety flys up to the outside shoulder, doesn't clean up the tackle but that whole time Patrick is still fighting to disengage from the pull, which he does to bring down the RB.

@ 6:08 -  Zone read on the backside end (Jones) It's a bad read as Patrick stayed home, but even if it was a handoff this was going nowhere.   Patrick uses that good first step and arm length to basically corral King down.  If this was to the field MAYBE King has a shot? IDK... either way, good athletic play by PJ2.

This is just over the halfway point of the season and something is starting to become clear - I don't believe Jones is ready to be an NFL pass rusher yet.   He's ready to be an NFL player, yes.   He's ready to come in on early downs, running situations and to occasionally spell where he'll do his best work; which looks to be his film against the run from the edge.    He has the physical makeup and mentals... him damn near assaulting the LT in the play I time stamped proves that much.     But his technique is very raw, his counter move almost non-existent, his weight distribution spotty and his footwork/hand placement (usage)/sync all need a great deal of coaching.  A great deal of coaching and therefore likely a great deal of time.     As for consistency? You can forget that one too.  

I just don't think I'm watching a talent that I myself would take in the 1st round.   The physical gifts are there, but the times when he could have shown those "elite" moments were not.  Not as a pass rusher anyway.   So if the Browns are hell-bent on taking a young player in this draft to lineup across from Myles, expect year 1 production, then believe it will be the difference in beating KC or losing.... I hate to tell you that I just don't see it. 

I still have one more game to go, I wanted to watch the very backhalf of the season.  But middle day 2 feels right for Patrick so far.   I wouldn't even be shocked if he falls to the super early day 3.   But given his athletic profile, I wouldn't really expect that.

[Tour2ma]

@tiamat63 said:

But middle day 2 feels right for Patrick so far. 

Seems to be where most of the projections put him.