Evolution of the Cleveland Browns
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So it seems that Holmgren wasn't lying about his feeling about McCoy. He does really like the kid and wanted him in a Browns uniform bad. He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking. That is great stuff. I guess since he deferred to Heckert and Mangini if this draft class ends up being dissapointing on the field Holmgren will have no problem showing Mangini to the door. I am really shocked though that they didn't take him sooner, and I wonder what QB they would have drafted later in the draft if they didn't take Tebow. I felt like they had to draft a QB no matter what to let him start to develop. Maybe they didn't feel that way.
“The Wait Is Over, The Browns Will Be In The Playoffs This Year!" -
So it seems that Holmgren wasn't lying about his feeling about McCoy. He does really like the kid and wanted him in a Browns uniform bad. He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking. That is great stuff. I guess since he deferred to Heckert and Mangini if this draft class ends up being dissapointing on the field Holmgren will have no problem showing Mangini to the door. I am really shocked though that they didn't take him sooner, and I wonder what QB they would have drafted later in the draft if they didn't take Tebow. I felt like they had to draft a QB no matter what to let him start to develop. Maybe they didn't feel that way.
He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking.
i'm curious about the tone here, assuming it to be more "So Eric, what are you thinking here at this pick?" as opposed to "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!? TAKE HIM NOW!!!"
i suspect no conspiracy, no "hahaha! if he makes bad picks i am free from responsibility, let's see if he falls on his face!!!"
i believe Holmgren is genuinely happy to have EM and has full confidence in him, and he's fortunate to have him as well imo...Holmgren just gets all the credit.
also after adding Jake and Seneca i feel the QB position was serviceable and not a huge need on their board, more of a situation where if a guy they valued really fell they'd consider taking him. this seems to be the exact situation they were faced with.
--in Mangini i trust--
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''He didn't say anything, he'd give me the eyes,'' Holmgren said, rolling his eyes in a perfect imitation of Mangini. ''I'd say, 'Eric, what are you thinking?' It was the perfect example of us working together. If I had allowed him to make every pick, we would have had six corners.''
Mangini joked back, ''One of 'em could have played guard.''
Awesome!
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So funny how some reporters still won't get off Mangini's back even after reading about such things as mopaji posted above me where he and Holmgren joked with each other.
This is a recent article off PFT...
Holmgren "pulled rank" to draft Colt McCoy
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 26, 2010 12:17 PM ET
Tom Heckert is the general manager in Cleveland, but there's no question who's in charge.
Mike Holmgren says he tried to run the Browns draft over the weekend like Ron Wolf used to, with everyone contributing. But the Big Show is clearly atop the flow chart.
When Colt McCoy was still on the board at No. 85, Holmgren jokingly told SI's Peter King that he "pulled rank" to get the selection done.
The Browns had Kentucky defensive tackle Corey Peters and Arizona State tackle Shawn Lauvao atop their draft board, but Peters was selected at No. 83 by Atlanta. Holmgren decided then to deviate some from Heckert's plan.
"Then,'' Holmgren said. "the fates were telling me something. We had to pick [McCoy]. I said to Tom, 'Let's pull the trigger.'" (The Browns got Lauvao anyway later.)
Holmgren also confirmed that Jon Gruden's recommendation of McCoy was a factor in the pick.
I don't even see the point in this article. Of course when McCoy was still there at #85 we pulled the trigger. Great value pick. A late 1st/early 2nd round talent for a late 3rd round pick. No reason not to since it was pretty guaranteed that we would be grabbing a QB sometime in this draft.
Gotta love that little shot thrown in there at the end about Gruden. You should see the comments on that article. All these people bashing Holmgren and Mangini. Many saying that Gruden is gonna be our coach in 2011... just really stupid stuff.
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So it seems that Holmgren wasn't lying about his feeling about McCoy. He does really like the kid and wanted him in a Browns uniform bad. He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking. That is great stuff. I guess since he deferred to Heckert and Mangini if this draft class ends up being dissapointing on the field Holmgren will have no problem showing Mangini to the door. I am really shocked though that they didn't take him sooner, and I wonder what QB they would have drafted later in the draft if they didn't take Tebow. I felt like they had to draft a QB no matter what to let him start to develop. Maybe they didn't feel that way.
So it seems that Holmgren wasn't lying about his feeling about McCoy. He does really like the kid and wanted him in a Browns uniform bad. He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking. That is great stuff. I guess since he deferred to Heckert and Mangini if this draft class ends up being dissapointing on the field Holmgren will have no problem showing Mangini to the door. I am really shocked though that they didn't take him sooner, and I wonder what QB they would have drafted later in the draft if they didn't take Tebow. I felt like they had to draft a QB no matter what to let him start to develop. Maybe they didn't feel that way.
Ive said all along this was mangini's draft minus McCoy...and its the right way to run things for once, im all for the prez allowing the GM to work with the coach to deliver exactly what coach and his coordinators feel they need to win and im also for the coach taking the heat or the glory based on how it turns out..honestly i dont have high expectations this year we should land around 6-10 maybe 8-8 if things start clicking..but what i do expect to see is a coaching staff and players giving it everything they have to win and i expect to see progress that can be built on this year not the dilly dallying around we saw the first half of last year..
Mangini has divorced and remarried and gets a new honeymoon as far as im concerned lets hope he makes good responsible use of it because i can tell you holmgren and heckert have give him what he wants now he has to make it work in a way that we all can see great progress being made....
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Great post, mopaji!
My favorite quote of this past week:
Holmgren says, "I made the decision to keep Eric [Mangini] and every day I know I did the right thing."
As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.
Coach Holmgren: "I made the decision to keep Eric [Mangini] and every day I know I did the right thing." -
Excellent post.
I would agree that Holmgren gives the team the credibility to say "I made this decision and that's that..." whereas Mangini would have been endlessly barraged with the same inane questions regarding the most minor things. The buck stops with The Big Show.
I think that Mangini's vision must be one hell of an organized and logical one because Holmgren bought into it when we were all led to believe that Mangini was a goner.
When you look at this roster you think of how many cancers were excised. You look at what's there and you see guys who are pros and who fit their roles. You see guys who reflect the blue collar town of Cleveland and you're proud that they represent you.
You look at this front office and you say to yourself that they are starting to resemble the Green Bays or the Philadelphias (obviously) and that's a GOOD thing. No longer are we going to be held hostage by the malcontents. No longer are we going to blow a draft-gasm to move up and select a choice that makes zero sense. Looking back on this draft, we see players that perhaps confused us at first but on the whole, it makes a lot of sense. We got tougher. We got more aggressive. We got faster. We got smarter.
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additionally, we'd be screwed this year if Mangini didn't stockpile the picks and dump the cap hazard cancers. he laid the foundation to make MH's job easier, hence turn this train wreck around.
kudos.....despite the haters. makes them look all the more foolish.
kudos.....despite the haters. makes them look all the more foolish.
Which includes everyone at WKNR.
Apart from empty platitudes, I haven't heard anything reasonable on that station regarding the Browns in so long. I couldn't believe how every last one of them was set against Mangini, and their arguments were terrible! Grossi is a genuis by comparison. -
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Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
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Great post, mopaji!
My favorite quote of this past week:
Holmgren says, "I made the decision to keep Eric [Mangini] and every day I know I did the right thing."
As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.
As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.
WOW!
can't decide if that says a lot for EM or not much for our team.
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Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
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Great thread!
Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.
We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.
Mike
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.
I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???
Mike
IN DORSEY I TRUST -
He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking.
i'm curious about the tone here, assuming it to be more "So Eric, what are you thinking here at this pick?" as opposed to "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!? TAKE HIM NOW!!!"
i suspect no conspiracy, no "hahaha! if he makes bad picks i am free from responsibility, let's see if he falls on his face!!!"
i believe Holmgren is genuinely happy to have EM and has full confidence in him, and he's fortunate to have him as well imo...Holmgren just gets all the credit.
also after adding Jake and Seneca i feel the QB position was serviceable and not a huge need on their board, more of a situation where if a guy they valued really fell they'd consider taking him. this seems to be the exact situation they were faced with.
--in Mangini i trust--
i'm curious about the tone here, assuming it to be more "So Eric, what are you thinking here at this pick?" as opposed to "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!? TAKE HIM NOW!!!"
i suspect no conspiracy, no "hahaha! if he makes bad picks i am free from responsibility, let's see if he falls on his face!!!"
i believe Holmgren is genuinely happy to have EM and has full confidence in him, and he's fortunate to have him as well imo...Holmgren just gets all the credit.
also after adding Jake and Seneca i feel the QB position was serviceable and not a huge need on their board, more of a situation where if a guy they valued really fell they'd consider taking him. this seems to be the exact situation they were faced with.
--in Mangini i trust--
I agree. I don't think the browns had to take a qb just to take one. It doesn't make any sense to select one to season if you don't think seasoning is going to help. You can season a tough piece of meat to make it taste ok, but you can't get it to taste like a prime steak, and you sure as heck don't want to eat it every night.
I think by the 3rd round the potential of McCoy and the pick started to match...the risk/reward started to balance.
I don't think McCoy is ever going to be the best QB in the league, but he has a chance of being pretty solid to very good...or, not so good...as a 3rd rounder....not the first one taken, it won't kill us if he flops.
We hope he doesn't, but it won't cripple us if he goes the route of most of the other qbs we have drafted.
Stick him on the bench with open ears and open mind for a year or two, then see if he is the guy or not, but i don't look at him as the heir apparent....he is a player on the team who has to show what he has.
Let's put it this way, I don't know who all the top QB prospects are next year, but if the top one or two fell in to our laps, i don't think McCoy would be the reason we might pass on them. I don't think Colt is that type of prospect in the minds of the team. Nice prospect?? You bet. The guy you have inked in as your QB the next 12 years??? No.
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i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.
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i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....
BTW...Great post mopaji
I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.
I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.
I'll go somewhere between you guys and say 76%.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.
If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?
I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.
I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???
Mike
I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.
I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???
Mike
I know it's all speculation but I am really convinced that Lerner wanted Brady in there to stir up support from the fans. I think the short leash was a result of Mangini saying "see Randy, the kid can't do it". This hunch of mine grew stronger after I saw just how resalute and decisive EM has been with everything else. There was some tugging going on in the background early last year and Kokinis was a casualty of that. EM knew how to fix it and Lerner wasn't comfortable with all of the quick change. Coach knew what he was doing all along and it took Holmgren singing Mangini's praises for everyone else to get in line and let the guy work. It's a shame it took some people so long but at least it happened.
"Chances are, if you think Jay Leno is funny, I don't care for you as a person" - Peter Griffin -
I think you could be right, Mo.
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