So Who Starts Next Week?
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"At the QB position we have a deposed starter in DA and a third time starter in Quinn. Neither played well. How does that reflect on DA's potential as the long term starter? It doesn't. All it tells us is that he can play on par with a 3rd time starter. We know who/what DA is. We have 3 games of evidence with Quinn and its been up and down. (Shocker)"
he came in in the 4th and Dawg his qb rating as a GAME STARTER not down 10 in the 4th. DA on par with a 3 time starter because of coming in on obvious passing situtations and the FACT that his TD strike was dropped greatly affecting his "ability to play on par" with a 3rd time starter one who has not thown a TD in 2 games against average to sub par defenses.
Greythan did you not read this in my post:
"Currently The system either qb is playing in is obviously the REAL causal factor in either production."
or even this:
"Quinn is bombing because of the same factors and not only bombing but posted a worse QB rating than even DA. Its three games we need more time because obviously this is all about next year now. Looking at BQ small sample against crappy defenses now that he has to face similar defenses DA did in the first half does not look very promising for BQ or the team."
your sarcastic innuendo of self stylized intellectual is noted, I understand you dont obviously agree with my positions.
Did you forget this part of my post which has been a constant theme in my supposed "defense of DA"
"No one enjoys watching a debacle, I still blame our lack consistent rushing, lack of skill players outside of KW, predictable play calling on our offensive side"
Remember you were accusing me of covering for DA and asking whaT DA should be responsible for and many others talking about DA's comp rating and QB rating is terrible and its him not the team that has the flaws.
Evidently even with BQ which I think is more conservative and efficient that DA his comp ratings and QB ratings are suffering from obvious (imo) other factors. The "qoutient" of change is seemingly actually making us offensively worse than with DA at this point against weaker defenses.
I think the last two games teams watched film on BQ and his quick small throws and are playing tight pressure and bump and run in order to throw off his timing and challenging him to throw mid to deep. Unfortunately that is not his game and our skill players outside of Winslow are not consistent enough so defenses are able to load up to stop the run and blitz.
With DA teams had to respect his almost reckless gunslinger mentality and downfield accuracy but he was lacking a true number 2 reciever to relieve pressure from doubling winslow and edwards. Lack of rushing also put more stress on the passing game which coupled with obvious playcalling was his downfall (and some key drops from BE and company).
We will see if the same formula from the last two games against Quinn will stay the same and if he adjusts. He has to be able to throw midrange accurate strikes to relieve this tight /bump pressure or secondary defensive schemes will continue to bog down our entire offense.
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At the risk of trying to have a conversation with you...
DA threw a great pass. That should have been caught for a TD. Period. Great ball.
DA also....
- didn't have enough athleticism to execute a sprint draw resulting in a fumble
- didn't have enough athleticism to sidestep pressure and instead threw a horrid pass behind Wright resulting in a pick
Bottom line however, and this is ultimately a bottom line game, he fared no better than the guy he replaced.
At the risk of trying to have a conversation with you...
DA threw a great pass. That should have been caught for a TD. Period. Great ball.
DA also....
- didn't have enough athleticism to execute a sprint draw resulting in a fumble
- didn't have enough athleticism to sidestep pressure and instead threw a horrid pass behind Wright resulting in a pick
Bottom line however, and this is ultimately a bottom line game, he fared no better than the guy he replaced.
The bottom line is the guy DA replaced only has 3 pro games under his belt whats DAs excuse for sucking with 24 nfl starts?
Besides edwards who is killing this team with drops and an organization who wont bench or trade him at any level..
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Now, with the BE and company still shitting the bed...it is easier to see that DA may in fact deserve a second chance...but it is also a difficult position as we may need the picks from a trade to get the WR we need to replace BE.
Too gracious.
Look at it through this lens.
At the QB position we have a deposed starter in DA and a third time starter in Quinn. Neither played well. How does that reflect on DA's potential as the long term starter? It doesn't. All it tells us is that he can play on par with a 3rd time starter. We know who/what DA is. We have 3 games of evidence with Quinn and its been up and down. (Shocker)
All the other problems (namely BE and playcalling) from yesterday plagued both QB's. If BE catches the ball on his hip, we are 1st and 10/goal. If BE catches the beautiful ball from DA its six. If Chud had noticed that his feature back was averaging 5.6 a pop and stuck with it against a defense with AWFUL stats.....
The beat goes on.
Its questionable what evaluation value we can get under RAC's regime. Seriously. How did this staff let BE turn into Chuck Knoblauch? Unreal.
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Sev...how about we compare DA's 3rd start with BQ's 3rd start? Wanna play that game?
DA 10/27, 123 yds, 0 TD's, 4 INT's, QBR 12.3
BQ 8/18, 94 yds, 0 TD's, 2 INT's, QBR 21.3
both got pulled....and both did it against a crap team....so if DA earned a shot at starting even after that piece of crap performance then BQ has DEFINITELY earned another shot or two....especially considering he WAS injured and he IS a 1st round draft choice.
Enough said.
Are there other things about this team that have to change, get corrected? Yes, but even though DA should get some benefit of the doubt....BQ needs to finish the season as starter so the team can get enough info on him to determine if HE is the answer or we need to move on.
Funny thing about BQ struggling....it actually may HELP the Browns in the long run. Some teams are going to look at this and say the same thing as lummy, sev and ONB are saying....that it was the SURROUNDING CAST that made DA look bad...and they may actually willing to part with MORE to get him in a trade.
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God Sev, give it up. You are coming off as borderline ecstastic that Quinn had a bad game. Also, your defending of DA based on one pass he threw is pathetic. DA sucked too.
Anderson throws the ball toward the end zone, Quinn doesn't. If Braylon would have caught this pass from DA the Browns would have been in good position to win.
Anderson throws the ball toward the end zone, Quinn doesn't. If Braylon would have caught this pass from DA the Browns would have been in good position to win.
Are you serious? You are justifying an incomplete pass as the reason one QB needs to start over the other?
You had zero credibility before, now it's negative.
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so where was the "up" part?
QB ratings of 104, 55, and 21 seem to be a consistent trend in one direction.
Right, up and down. I appreciate your restating my position. Did you have something material to add to this, or any, discussion?
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Sev,
My point is your use of Quinn's failure as some form of justification for DA is flawed. Quinn's a 3rd time starter and he played poorly. A seasoned QB, a ProBowl QB, should have gotten more from the team yesterday. At least, that should be the expectation. After all, if a guy starting his third game is as good as a Pro Bowl starter on his worst day....
So, what we know is that DA did about the same as Quinn on a day where both looked bad. That's vindication for DA how?
For Quinn, he remains largely an unknown. More known that three weeks ago, but hardly the body of work necessary to have a decent read on his ceiling.
As for the non-existant running game you reference, that wasn't the case yesterday. The staff simply decided to abandon the run for some reason.
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Sev,
My point is your use of Quinn's failure as some form of justification for DA is flawed. Quinn's a 3rd time starter and he played poorly. A seasoned QB, a ProBowl QB, should have gotten more from the team yesterday. At least, that should be the expectation. After all, if a guy starting his third game is as good as a Pro Bowl starter on his worst day....
So, what we know is that DA did about the same as Quinn on a day where both looked bad. That's vindication for DA how?
For Quinn, he remains largely an unknown. More known that three weeks ago, but hardly the body of work necessary to have a decent read on his ceiling.
As for the non-existant running game you reference, that wasn't the case yesterday. The staff simply decided to abandon the run for some reason.
A seasoned QB, a ProBowl QB, should have gotten more from the team yesterday.
Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
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Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
Well, seeing as how the pro-bowl QB actually had a LOWER rating than the 3 game starter...I think that question is answered. And before you go saying how he was in a pass only situation...he took over at the end of the 3rd Q and turned the ball over 2x...so quit whining!!! A GOOD QB would have at least done SOMETHING!
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Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
You've really lost a step. You're not only boring but dense.
Your phone call to RAC yesterday obviously got through and he inserted DA at your bidding. (You know, DA being a Pro Bowler and all.)
DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
You are getting good at answering your own questions at least. Must be hard having all those voices in your head at once.
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Exactly.
So why is Quinn playing?
You've really lost a step. You're not only boring but dense.
Your phone call to RAC yesterday obviously got through and he inserted DA at your bidding. (You know, DA being a Pro Bowler and all.)
DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
You are getting good at answering your own questions at least. Must be hard having all those voices in your head at once.
DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
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the kid has played 3 pro games. give him a break. ask any pro what the difference is between division one and pros and they will tell you the speed of the game. it takes time. hes gonna make mistakes. whats da's excuse for playing like crap. after 20 something starts he should know the game by now.
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Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Snaps in practice? The guy's had a year+ worth of snaps with the guys on the field. You're pulling the rusty card after a couple of weeks? Seriously? That's your excuse?
Did you actually watch him stumbling around back there before he rocketed the ball of Wright's back side? Did you actually watch his painfull attempt to get the ball to Lewis? Did you see him throw the laser on a short in to BE?
Oh, and as we know, starting DA against an inferior team is a recipe for a guaranteed victory. Sorta like last year's Cincy game? Maybe Oakland earlier in that year?
I will say this. DA came in throwing some good looking passes yesterday. The guy throws a great looking ball.
However, the results are what they are. His lack of athleticism really hurts him. (Fumble because he couldn't get there and his awful footwork on the INT.) His horrendous short passing (too hard and too often off target) really hurt him. And finally, when things don't go perfectly (i.e., BE's dropped TD), DA goes down with the ship.
We need more from the QB position than what DA brings. If yesterday turns out to be a common outcome with Quinn, then we're back in the market for a QB. Nothing has changed: a 3rd time starter struggled and the guy he replaced struggled in relief. Result? See more Quinn because we already know DA.
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Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Snaps in practice? The guy's had a year+ worth of snaps with the guys on the field. You're pulling the rusty card after a couple of weeks? Seriously? That's your excuse?
Did you actually watch him stumbling around back there before he rocketed the ball of Wright's back side? Did you actually watch his painfull attempt to get the ball to Lewis? Did you see him throw the laser on a short in to BE?
Oh, and as we know, starting DA against an inferior team is a recipe for a guaranteed victory. Sorta like last year's Cincy game? Maybe Oakland earlier in that year?
I will say this. DA came in throwing some good looking passes yesterday. The guy throws a great looking ball.
However, the results are what they are. His lack of athleticism really hurts him. (Fumble because he couldn't get there and his awful footwork on the INT.) His horrendous short passing (too hard and too often off target) really hurt him. And finally, when things don't go perfectly (i.e., BE's dropped TD), DA goes down with the ship.
We need more from the QB position than what DA brings. If yesterday turns out to be a common outcome with Quinn, then we're back in the market for a QB. Nothing has changed: a 3rd time starter struggled and the guy he replaced struggled in relief. Result? See more Quinn because we already know DA.
Did you see him throw the laser on a short in to BE?
You mean the one that bounced off of Braylon's hands?
Spare me BQ Luver. You've been in here pounding the O-line for not picking up the blitz when BQ plays and excusing his lame ducks that he throws up because of the blitz.
Then Anderson gets an unblocked blitzer up the middle, puts one on the money to the hot receiver, and you bitch because you think he threw it too hard.
Gay.
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DA proceeded to post a lower passer rating than the guy he replaced.
That's why Quinn is playing.
Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Deny it all you want but you know that if Anderson had gotten snaps in practice and started the game then the Browns would have won.
This is after all a team that Anderson beat last year 27-17.
Up until midway through this season, I was a DA supporter as well. But, Lum, deep in your heart....you have to know that DA is not a franchise QB and never will be. He's had enough time to prove that. Is BQ? Don't know. Do I hope he is? Absolultely. Because that means we waisted a draft pick and it will be another setback in that position.
I was hoping DA would come in yesterdays game and light a fire under the offenses ass. But it turned out to be more of the same.
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You mean the one that bounced off of Braylon's hands?
Spare me BQ Luver. You've been in here pounding the O-line for not picking up the blitz when BQ plays and excusing his lame ducks that he throws up because of the blitz.
Then Anderson gets an unblocked blitzer up the middle, puts one on the money to the hot receiver, and you bitch because you think he threw it too hard.
Gay.
Wrong play. This was the one that Edwards knocked down with one hand because it was too far in front of him to get 2 on. It was a 3 step drop and DA had time to deliver the ball.
Also, no need to get hostile. You're awfully fragile.
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Greythan I can see how my post could be construed as a justification for DA. It really is not meant that way.
In a small sample of three games is not enough to examine what BQ may or may not be, he is not trending well but that can reverse. I am using Quinns failure to illustrate a much deeper flaw in our SYSTEM that has greatly affected TWO qbs now.
If BQ can deliver on midrange precision throws that will loosen the tight short coverage, the problem BQ faces that DA did also was CONSISTENCY with other contributing skill players. Outside of Winslow who BQ locks on just like DA did for one simple reason..... He consistently actually delivers. NO ONE ELSE DOES in the WR corps.
I am not saying our running game was not working last game more of how and often it was utilized by Chud, Harrison was used more often and early and Jamal is great in bursts.
Outside of Winslow BQ or DA has: BE........ Stallworth(recently for BQ not much for DA), steptoe, sanders, cribbs. Jamal numbers are WAY down and Harrison under utilized. That is not a recipe for success for any QB.
The hyper criticism of DA imho was not really accurate and now with Quinn who I think is actually more efficient in terms of comp ratings now tanking only further illustrates to me the same premise I had this entire season. When I was accused of being and apologist for DA because I talked about lack of consistent skill players and predictable Play calling from Chud along with decreased rushing contribution.
Remember the "cockpit" theory? Or locking onto and forcing it to Winslow to often, poor decsions making not route running or playcalling?
DA is not perfect by a mile but this BQ debacle only strengthens the systematic skill player plus oc play calling and rushing game decrease failure. I dont really blame BQ yesterday for much except for one pick. Stallworth is a bit mystifying in his disapperance or that might be Quinn not looking for him.
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Sev, its comments like this that make it hard to give credence to your position.
First:
In a small sample of three games is not enough to examine what BQ may or may not be
Then:
The hyper criticism of DA imho was not really accurate and now with Quinn who I think is actually more efficient in terms of comp ratings now tanking only further illustrates to me the same premise I had this entire season.
DA is not perfect by a mile but this BQ debacle only strengthens
The rest of your post is based upon the following premise:
1) Quinn's results have been poor; therefore
2) Holding DA accountable for his results is faulty: its not DA its the supporting cast.
You can't have it both ways.
If you want to use Quinn's results to compare to DA then you are, in fact, acknowledging your expectations for a fourth year player with 25 starts is the same for a second year player in his third starts. Potentially worse, is the assumption that Quinn's play these last two weeks is typical when it may simply be part of the new QB learning process.
After all, if the cockpit is as flawed as you say, then you should compare Quinn's third start to DA's where DA threw 0 TD's and 4 INT's.
Point is, good QB'ing should be getting more out of this team. Will Quinn be the answer? Not sure. I feel that we know DA isn't.
Finally, the cockpit has some problems. No argument there. I still don't think its the worst cockpit in the league and yet that's where our starting QB rating dwells.
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greythan you are cutting and pasting only half of the comments instead of the premise that is explicity explained constantly. A flawed system that is not beneficial for QB production.. for EITHER qb.
You cut our only half statements. I am not having it both ways reread the post. I am using BQ problems to illustrate the same systematic failure that is greatly affecting either QB.
You cant go back and compare singular games against different opponents with different contributing players from one or two years ago to find an average fair mean.
The arguments you and others used to criticize DA and anyone who was pointing to other contributing factors dont seem to hold up much water right now considering what is happening to BQ. The QB can only work with what they have and what and how the coaches gameplan and call plays.
I think BQ is suffering from the exact same problems DA did and his numbers are reflecting that. It is worse because of the level of competitiion we are playing defensively is poor also so it only further illustrates our systematic failure.
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You cut our only half statements. I am not having it both ways reread the post. I am using BQ problems to illustrate the same systematic failure that is greatly affecting either QB.
I'll try to be concise.
What I am saying is that you should NOT use BQ problems to illustrate some justification for DA's poor play. Why? Because a) the comparative sample size is way too small (3 starts and you said this yourself, yet go on to use the information) and
we have no idea if this is Quinn's worst or is truly indicative of his ability.Yet, you keep trying to use Quinn's last 2 games as evidence to support your claim which seems to be DA should not be held accountable for his play.
Sorry if I'm not following. Really.
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