Miserable city?

[The Gipper]

OK, so let's move along in this analysis. The next criteria on Forbes list is: Weather.

Here are several sources on weather: First, The Farmer's Almanac ( a pretty reliable source, fair to say?) Here are their top worst weather cities in America:

Quillayatte. Washington

Astoria, Oregon

Marquette, Michigan

Syracuse, NY

Elkins WVa

New Orleans

Eugene, Ore.

Hilo, Hawaii. (doing a double take? Yea, Hawaii)

The Farmer's Almanac takes in all criteria: obviously including snow, Cloudy days, and humidity. the Oregon locations suffer from the cloudy, humid issue...as does Hilo. Syracuse and Marquette obviously get the snow and cold.

Another poster noted the cities in America that are cold. I will simply reference that post to show how we here are not nearly as cold as many, many other places around. And I have always said, I would rather spend a winter around here than a summer in Florida. And you can add several other locatins to that phrase.

Citydata.com gave this list of the cities with the worst, hottest/muggiest summer weather:

Brownsville, Texas

Columbia, SC

Ft. Meyers Fla.

Houston

Jackson, Miss.

Laredo Texas

Miami

New Orleans

Oklahoma City

Palm Springs

Phoenix

Yuma

Why on earthe would Forbes not do a list of worst overall weather?

Forbes did do a "Worst Winter Weather" list. Notice they only did "winter". Here was their list:

10. Baltimore

9. Detroit

8. Columbus

7. Indianapolis

6. Minneapolis

5. Chicago

4. Minneapolis

3. New York

2. Boston

1. Cleveland

OK, so they have Cleveland on this list because we get a lot of snow in winter. (I notice that Buffalo, which gets more snow is not on here...but I am not here to pile on Buffalo)

But, note this, the following cities all get more snow in the winter on average than Cleveland: Denver, Anchorage, Portland,Maine; Salt Lake City. So, what? If you get a lot of snow but you have some nice ski resorts nearby they think that somehow the Winter weather doesn't suck just as bad there? Pretty arbitrary in my view.

I am not saying that Cleveland doesn't have bad winters that we would like to do without, but, note, for those areas affected by lake effect snow, Cleveland has about the least amount of snow. Rochester, Buffalo, Sault St. Marie, all up and down the western coast of Michigan there is tremendous snow. And I guess Forbes must exclude Alaska from the "bad weather" thought process...but note: Valdez, Alaska gets an average of 326 inches of snow a year, compared to Cleveland's 57 inches.

So far though, based on their own incestuous ranking, this is the ONLY criteria so far that Forbes can claim that Cleveland has it a bit more miserable than other places.

But still, there must be more to it than that.

[The Gipper]

OK, I see that Forbes final, newly added criteria is "Sports team success".

Now, we know that Cleveland has had poor luck with the success of its sports teams, but what constitutes "success"?

I mean, let's ask this: Is it better to have a team and have it disappoint? Or to not have a team at all?

Let's look at a couple of factors:

1. Yes Cleveland has not had a major team title since 1964...Browns NFL. So, let's compare "misery" along that lines with another city:

Let's take: San Diego!! And compare on all fronts with Cleveland: San Diego has not had a major team title since 1963, when the Chargers last won an AFL title. And San Diego LOST the Clippers to LA. Cleveland kept our team when it tried to move. The San Diego area is quite a bit larger now than the Cleveland, almost twice the size, yet it has only 2 major sports franchises compared to Cleveland's 3.

And how about the others: A. On the Superfund map, San Diego seems to have a couple of major sites. Cleveland has none. B. San Diego has the 10th worst crime rate in the US, Cleveland 33rd. C. San Diego has the 12th worst commute time, Cleveland is not even in the top 30. D. San Diego has a higher unemployment rate than Cleveland. E.On the report that noted that Ohio's tax rate ranked 38th, it also noted that California's effective tax rate was like third highest in the country.

On every criteria...San Diego is worse than Cleveland: pollution, crime, congestion, unemployment, sports team failure, tax rate....every criteria but one: Winter weather.

Does San Diego's nice weather trump ALL the advantages that Cleveland has over it? (Well, maybe...but really?)

On the sports team failure criteria also consider: Is Cleveland's failure to win a title as bad as losing two NFL teams like LA has? I have talked about San Diego which is double the size of Cleveland having only 2 team, and I mentioned LA having no NFL teams, but also consider these:

1. The Seattle area, which is larger than the Cleveland area by far also has only 2 teams, having lost their NBA team (and that city has had no title since 1979).

2. St. Louis..larger than Cleveland... lost their NBA and NFL teams before getting one back.

3. Baltimore...larger than Cleveland has only 2 teams and now has to glom off DC for hockey and NBA.

4. Portland, Oregon, a metro area only about 200,000 people less than Cleve. is a one horse town with only an NBA team

5. The same is true for Sacramento, only about 400K less people than Cleveland.

6. The same is true for San Antonio. If you include the Austin area it is bigger than the Cleveland area...has only 1 horse, the Spurs.

7. Las Vegas, a no horse town is now only about 400K less in population than Cleveland.

8. The same is true for the Virginia Beach/Norfolk area. No teams at all.

Is it better to have a team and lose or to have no team at all?

And, again, what happens if the Cavs win?

Then Forbes will having nothing to fall back on except that we are a town that gets some snow in winter, but less than Denver or Salt Lake.

So much for this analysis.

[ballpeen]

Red dots/green dots can also be perceived as places that still have manufacturing and places that don't....I think Detroit has a green dot.

You can't tell me that place is cleaned up....it just isn't polluting the way it was since everything is shut down..

[The Gipper]

@ballpeen said:

Red dots/green dots can also be perceived as places that still have manufacturing and places that don't....I think Detroit has a green dot.

You can't tell me that place is cleaned up....it just isn't polluting the way it was since everything is shut down..

Well, for this purpose, one of Forbes criteria was the presence of Superfund sites. The map notes in red the sites that are still of concern, and in green the sites they say are cleaned up.

Dots don't represent specific cities...they are physical locations of concern to the Superfund. Theoretically a single city could have 10 or 12 dots I suppose.

[Pumpkin Eater]

excellent analysis, Gip. Who knows what Forbes was thinking. Someone should also tell them that it was municipal stadium that was called the Mistake by the Lake, not Cleveland itself. Morons.

[The Gipper]

@pumpkin-eater said:

excellent analysis, Gip. Who knows what Forbes was thinking. Someone should also tell them that it was municipal stadium that was called the Mistake by the Lake, not Cleveland itself. Morons.

Precisely. I figure that some editor in some building in New York made the decision that because Cleveland was kinda cold and snowy that it should lead the list.

The only other thing the article says about Cleveland is that it is losing population. Yet, overcongestion was one of the factors they cite to make a city miserable. I would think that losing people would lead to less congestion...and thus more happiness.

And I agree. I once spent 4 hours in traffic in rush hour around Washington D.C. Give me a little lake effect snow all winter long as long as I didn't have to deal with that every day.

[The Gipper]

 Wanted to bump this up now to again see how absurd this analysis was. And if you take one factor: team success, since I posted this Cleveland of course has had the Cavs win a championship and the Indians appear in another World Series, and What happened in San Diego? They lost another team that left town. And  another thing is with global warming the winters here are slightly milder than they used to be. No they’re not as good as San Diego but again Cleveland had a better rating than San Diego in 11 out of the 12 criteria. I don’t know if there was ever a follow-up to this in the last five years but But I thought I would dig this up just again to show how idiotic it was

[mjp28]

Well my old favorite Forbes magazine 20 happiest and unhappiest cities in 2019........hello Ohio?  

Top 20 Happiest Cities in America https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2019/03/12/20-happiest-and-20-unhappiest-cities-in-america/#7a6bad483a70

1. Plano, Texas
2. Irvine, California
3. Madison, Wisconsin
4. Fremont, California
5. Huntington Beach, California
6. Fargo, North Dakota
7. Grand Prairie, Texas
8. San Jose, California
9. Scottsdale, Arizona
10. San Francisco, California
11. Bismarck, North Dakota
12. Overland Park, Kansas
13. Santa Rosa, California
14. Austin, Texas
15. Sioux Falls, South Dakota
16. Pearl City, Hawaii
17. Glendale, California
18. San Diego, California
19. St. Paul, Minnesota
20. Charleston, South Carolina

20 Unhappiest Cities in America

1. Detroit, Michigan
2. Toledo, Ohio
3. Charleston, West Virginia
4. Birmingham, Alabama
5. Cleveland, Ohio
6. Gulfport, Mississippi
7. Little Rock, Arkansas
8. Huntington, West Virginia
9. Newark, New Jersey
10. Mobile, Alabama
11. Augusta, Georgia
12. St. Louis, Missouri
13. Fort Smith, Arkansas
14. Cincinnati, Ohio
15. Akron, Ohio
16. Fayetteville, North Carolina
17. Columbus, Georgia
18. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
19. Memphis, Tennessee
20. Shreveport, Louisiana

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I wonder how they came up with 'happiest' city.  What a load of crap.

[The Gipper]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

I wonder how they came up with 'happiest' city.  What a load of crap.

You are right I am sure that this is just a complete pile of horseshit. And not likely having actually used any of the data that they had available to them. 

[mjp28]

@the-gipper said:

You are right I am sure that this is just a complete pile of horseshit. And not likely having actually used any of the data that they had available to them. 

Yeah I'm sure the Dakotas are the happiest places on Earth.  

[TexasAg1969]

@clevelandmilidh said:

Cleveland's not even in the top 40 in terms of crime rate by city

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...s_by_crime_rate

According to that chart you provided Cleveland's crime rate of 1556+ per 100,000 is #7 worst in the country after St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KC and Milwaukee. Read the chart again under "Total" per 100,000.

[The Gipper]

@texasag1969 said:

According to that chart you provided Cleveland's crime rate of 1556+ per 100,000 is #7 worst in the country after St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KC and Milwaukee. Read the chart again under "Total" per 100,000.

I wrote:

Per the FBI's list of cities with the most violent crimes per capita, the following top the list:

1. New York

2. Los Angeles

3. Chicago

4. Houston

5. Phoenix

6. Philadelphia

7. Las Vegas

8. San Antonio

9. Dallas

10. San Diego

11. San Jose

12. Honolulu

Tell me where you think I got this data from

[TexasAg1969]

@the-gipper said:

Tell me where you think I got this data from

Not yours Gip. I was using the total crime rate per 100,000 from the quote I included in my response.

[The Gipper]

@texasag1969 said:

Not yours Gip. I was using the total crime rate per 100,000 from the quote I included in my response.

Well, I used something that said "FBI list of cities with most violent crimes per capita."   I don't know if I used Wikipedia, or the FBI's own website, or something else.   I didn't make it up.  Not sure where I got it. 

(remember also...I did this research in 2010....the stats you reflect are from 2017.   Don't know if things could have changed that drastically in that time.

[mjp28]

@texasag1969 said:

According to that chart you provided Cleveland's crime rate of 1556+ per 100,000 is #7 worst in the country after St. Louis, Detroit, Baltimore, Memphis, KC and Milwaukee. Read the chart again under "Total" per 100,000.

One bad side of town or neighborhood or suburb can kind of ruin things for a ciy or region happens now all over the world.

Just look at South Chicago or the east side of Cleveland or South Central LA or many other cities now. 

[TexasAg1969]

@mjp28 said:

One bad side of town or neighborhood or suburb can kind of ruin things for a ciy or region happens now all over the world.

Just look at South Chicago or the east side of Cleveland or South Central LA or many other cities now. 

There are areas of Houston and Dallas I would definitely have on my concealed 9mm (I have the license to carry).

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Cleveland is definetely a high crime city, the suburbs are mostly safe however.  I wouldn't go to E78th and St. Clair where my dear grandparents lived now or I would probably be killed because I'm white.

[The Gipper]

@diehardbrownsfan said:

Cleveland is definetely a high crime city, the suburbs are mostly safe however.  I wouldn't go to E78th and St. Clair where my dear grandparents lived now or I would probably be killed because I'm white.

You might more likely be killed for some other reasons.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

@the-gipper said:

You might more likely be killed for some other reasons.

Not likely.