3 way deal, Gutz Gone
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Bunker said:
thanks masters. the garko 90 rbis is really good we need 8 in the line up that can do that, and guys getting on base CONSISTANTLY.Last year we had too many low hit games.
Well a healthy Victor will add that and then some. I am not sold on Hafner coming back to form though. He was starting to tail off in 2007.
Certainly need more guys getting on base at the top of the order. I love Grady, but he should not be the lead off guy. I'd love to see CLE get Furcal. He could lead off (gets on base and has speed), then can use Astrubal batting second, allowing Grady to bat 3rd, which I think he'd be fantastic at. It would be like the good years from Robbie Alomar. Grady can hit for power, the gaps, move runners, or drop down that bunt. Then you got Victor, Hafner (for this I'll assume he comes back around), Jhonny P, and Garko. That would be a very deadly 1-7 in the line up.
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Bunker said:
thanks masters. the garko 90 rbis is really good we need 8 in the line up that can do that, and guys getting on base CONSISTANTLY.Last year we had too many low hit games.
Well a healthy Victor will add that and then some. I am not sold on Hafner coming back to form though. He was starting to tail off in 2007.
Certainly need more guys getting on base at the top of the order. I love Grady, but he should not be the lead off guy. I'd love to see CLE get Furcal. He could lead off (gets on base and has speed), then can use Astrubal batting second, allowing Grady to bat 3rd, which I think he'd be fantastic at. It would be like the good years from Robbie Alomar. Grady can hit for power, the gaps, move runners, or drop down that bunt. Then you got Victor, Hafner (for this I'll assume he comes back around), Jhonny P, and Garko. That would be a very deadly 1-7 in the line up.
Masters said:
I'd love to see CLE get Furcal. He could lead off (gets on base and has speed), then can use Astrubal batting second, allowing Grady to bat 3rd, which I think he'd be fantastic at. It would be like the good years from Robbie Alomar.No way that happens though, right? Not after the outlay about to go in Wood's bank account. I'd love it myself, just can't see it happening.
Beanpot
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It'll be interesting. Wood was a pretty crazy free agent signing since players as good as him don't usually get signed for two years and an option. Furcal could be the same thing (maybe three years and an option?). Each would probably make around $10M/year, and remember we were offering CC about $18M/year for four years to stay. If we can fill two (or three really) of our biggest needs in shutdown closer, middle infield, and leadoff hitter, for $20M/year and not be tied up long term...I could see it happening.
I think it's all gonna be about years. If the market for Furcal goes up to 3 or 4 guaranteed years (like Hudson's predicted 5 year/$50M), then there's basically no chance.
The Alomar comparison could be considered blashpemy though. Robbie's first year in Cleveland he hit 24 homers, drove in 120 runs, scored 138, walked more than he struck out, stole 37 bases, and won his 8th gold glove.
Not that I'd be opposed to Furcal repeating that....
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Furcal can't bring that.....but what he can bring is the ability to drop Sizemore down to the 3 hole.
Hitting there will be of big benefit to the team.
Last year GS scored 101 and drove in 91. Simply dropping 2 slots is going to increase on that production...he is still going to score 100 runs, but his RBI numbers will probably hit 115 minimum...a net gain of 24...a sizable gain in total run production for just moving him in the order.
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Masters said:
I'd love to see CLE get Furcal. He could lead off (gets on base and has speed), then can use Astrubal batting second, allowing Grady to bat 3rd, which I think he'd be fantastic at. It would be like the good years from Robbie Alomar.No way that happens though, right? Not after the outlay about to go in Wood's bank account. I'd love it myself, just can't see it happening.
Beanpot
No way that happens though, right? Not after the outlay about to go in Wood's bank account. I'd love it myself, just can't see it happening.
Beanpot
It is a bit of a pipe dream. But the Tribe is rumored to be one of the teams going for him after he spurned an offer from the A's.
CLE's payroll was only 79M last year. Don't know what the guys in the SEA/METs trade cost, so I'll consider them a wash against Gutierrez and Marte (he will not be staying). That puts the payroll around 90M now.
Furcal rejected a 4 year deal worth 35~40M (or lets say 10M a year). The Tribe showed interest in trading for Tejada (why I have no idea), whose contract was much more. If they can move Delucci's contract, a Furcal deal isn't that far fetched.
But I'd agree it isn't the most likely thing to happen.
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It'll be interesting. Wood was a pretty crazy free agent signing since players as good as him don't usually get signed for two years and an option. Furcal could be the same thing (maybe three years and an option?). Each would probably make around $10M/year, and remember we were offering CC about $18M/year for four years to stay. If we can fill two (or three really) of our biggest needs in shutdown closer, middle infield, and leadoff hitter, for $20M/year and not be tied up long term...I could see it happening.
I think it's all gonna be about years. If the market for Furcal goes up to 3 or 4 guaranteed years (like Hudson's predicted 5 year/$50M), then there's basically no chance.
The Alomar comparison could be considered blashpemy though. Robbie's first year in Cleveland he hit 24 homers, drove in 120 runs, scored 138, walked more than he struck out, stole 37 bases, and won his 8th gold glove.
Not that I'd be opposed to Furcal repeating that....
It'll be interesting. Wood was a pretty crazy free agent signing since players as good as him don't usually get signed for two years and an option. Furcal could be the same thing (maybe three years and an option?). Each would probably make around $10M/year, and remember we were offering CC about $18M/year for four years to stay. If we can fill two (or three really) of our biggest needs in shutdown closer, middle infield, and leadoff hitter, for $20M/year and not be tied up long term...I could see it happening.
I think it's all gonna be about years. If the market for Furcal goes up to 3 or 4 guaranteed years (like Hudson's predicted 5 year/$50M), then there's basically no chance.
The Alomar comparison could be considered blashpemy though. Robbie's first year in Cleveland he hit 24 homers, drove in 120 runs, scored 138, walked more than he struck out, stole 37 bases, and won his 8th gold glove.
Not that I'd be opposed to Furcal repeating that....
I was comparing Grady to Alomar, not Furcal. Grady hitting in the 3 hole I think would allow him to put up the numbers and versitility like Alomar did.
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Furcal can't bring that.....but what he can bring is the ability to drop Sizemore down to the 3 hole.
Hitting there will be of big benefit to the team.
Last year GS scored 101 and drove in 91. Simply dropping 2 slots is going to increase on that production...he is still going to score 100 runs, but his RBI numbers will probably hit 115 minimum...a net gain of 24...a sizable gain in total run production for just moving him in the order.
Furcal can't bring that.....but what he can bring is the ability to drop Sizemore down to the 3 hole.
Hitting there will be of big benefit to the team.
Last year GS scored 101 and drove in 91. Simply dropping 2 slots is going to increase on that production...he is still going to score 100 runs, but his RBI numbers will probably hit 115 minimum...a net gain of 24...a sizable gain in total run production for just moving him in the order.
That is what I was saying (Grady comparison to Alomar). You drop him in the order, he is gonna get to the plate in a lot more situation to move runners and drive them in. With the number of HRs Grady puts up, those RBI numbers will jump when he ain't hitting solo HRs all the time.
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It'll be interesting. Wood was a pretty crazy free agent signing since players as good as him don't usually get signed for two years and an option. Furcal could be the same thing (maybe three years and an option?). Each would probably make around $10M/year, and remember we were offering CC about $18M/year for four years to stay. If we can fill two (or three really) of our biggest needs in shutdown closer, middle infield, and leadoff hitter, for $20M/year and not be tied up long term...I could see it happening.
I think it's all gonna be about years. If the market for Furcal goes up to 3 or 4 guaranteed years (like Hudson's predicted 5 year/$50M), then there's basically no chance.
The Alomar comparison could be considered blashpemy though. Robbie's first year in Cleveland he hit 24 homers, drove in 120 runs, scored 138, walked more than he struck out, stole 37 bases, and won his 8th gold glove.
Not that I'd be opposed to Furcal repeating that....
It'll be interesting. Wood was a pretty crazy free agent signing since players as good as him don't usually get signed for two years and an option. Furcal could be the same thing (maybe three years and an option?). Each would probably make around $10M/year, and remember we were offering CC about $18M/year for four years to stay. If we can fill two (or three really) of our biggest needs in shutdown closer, middle infield, and leadoff hitter, for $20M/year and not be tied up long term...I could see it happening.
I think it's all gonna be about years. If the market for Furcal goes up to 3 or 4 guaranteed years (like Hudson's predicted 5 year/$50M), then there's basically no chance.
Excellent point. I especially agree about years being the determining factor and that Wood was a crazy FA signing. I never once thought he'd sign here for that sort of deal.
The only thing I'll take exception to is the suggestion that the CC offer has anything to do with the Tribe's budget. That offer was given with the realization that it wouldn't be accepted and I wouldn't read much into it beyond that.
Beanpot
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Furcal can't bring that.....but what he can bring is the ability to drop Sizemore down to the 3 hole.
Hitting there will be of big benefit to the team.
Last year GS scored 101 and drove in 91. Simply dropping 2 slots is going to increase on that production...he is still going to score 100 runs, but his RBI numbers will probably hit 115 minimum...a net gain of 24...a sizable gain in total run production for just moving him in the order.
That is what I was saying (Grady comparison to Alomar). You drop him in the order, he is gonna get to the plate in a lot more situation to move runners and drive them in. With the number of HRs Grady puts up, those RBI numbers will jump when he ain't hitting solo HRs all the time.
Masters said:
That is what I was saying (Grady comparison to Alomar). You drop him in the order, he is gonna get to the plate in a lot more situation to move runners and drive them in. With the number of HRs Grady puts up, those RBI numbers will jump when he ain't hitting solo HRs all the time.My bad....I skim a lot when I read these boards...I was thinking the comparison was between Furcal and Alomar.
Sure.....Grady might even do better than that.
His on base percentage might drop as his walks will surely drop as he looks for more pitches to drive early in the count v looking to work the pitcher....but I don't think his average will suffer much...and he knows how to put on a power stroke by dropping the hands a bit....he might have some BIG numbers if we can get some table setters hitting before him.
Add in whoever hits behind him is going to offer more protection that who has been hitting behind him and it seems like a natural move to me.
He can still hit like a leadoff if needed....get on base, steal a sack, then score on a single.
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Masters said:
That is what I was saying (Grady comparison to Alomar). You drop him in the order, he is gonna get to the plate in a lot more situation to move runners and drive them in. With the number of HRs Grady puts up, those RBI numbers will jump when he ain't hitting solo HRs all the time.My bad....I skim a lot when I read these boards...I was thinking the comparison was between Furcal and Alomar.
Sure.....Grady might even do better than that.
His on base percentage might drop as his walks will surely drop as he looks for more pitches to drive early in the count v looking to work the pitcher....but I don't think his average will suffer much...and he knows how to put on a power stroke by dropping the hands a bit....he might have some BIG numbers if we can get some table setters hitting before him.
Add in whoever hits behind him is going to offer more protection that who has been hitting behind him and it seems like a natural move to me.
He can still hit like a leadoff if needed....get on base, steal a sack, then score on a single.
My bad....I skim a lot when I read these boards...I was thinking the comparison was between Furcal and Alomar.
Sure.....Grady might even do better than that.
His on base percentage might drop as his walks will surely drop as he looks for more pitches to drive early in the count v looking to work the pitcher....but I don't think his average will suffer much...and he knows how to put on a power stroke by dropping the hands a bit....he might have some BIG numbers if we can get some table setters hitting before him.
Add in whoever hits behind him is going to offer more protection that who has been hitting behind him and it seems like a natural move to me.
He can still hit like a leadoff if needed....get on base, steal a sack, then score on a single.
I am not sure his OBP will drop that much. I actually think it might go up. The last couple of years his strike outs have been up, but so has his power. I'd rather see that free swinging w/ men on base.
Yeah, who ever hits behind him in that scenario (which I think would be Martinez) will certainly offer the opportunity for Grady to see better pitches.
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