Underwhelmed
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In "another forum" I was RIPPED to SHREDS because I said this was a stupid move. Yeah Holmgren is who is he is, yeah he has a major history in football. That means everything he says or does is perfect? NOPE! In fact, the guy has had losing seasons as well.......Cleveland will never be a complete team, the desire for the "winner" is so bad in Cleveland that no HC or set of FO people will ever have enough time to actually build it. That makes is REAL tough for the guys waiting around and hoping for that year after year awesome team. It takes time, but the city of Cleveland will never allow that time IMO.
Just frustrated, take it for what it is....
Agree 100% Holmgren may not want to coach but he wants to get credit for it if it comes. Mangini actually had the ship going in the right direction and then it was time to make another change. I've lost a lot of interest that isn't going to come back and I am about ready to just say SCREW IT and not bother following the nfl. I won't be a hypocrit and follow the steelers, just find something else to do with my time
Agree 100% Holmgren may not want to coach but he wants to get credit for it if it comes. Mangini actually had the ship going in the right direction and then it was time to make another change. I've lost a lot of interest that isn't going to come back and I am about ready to just say SCREW IT and not bother following the nfl. I won't be a hypocrit and follow the steelers, just find something else to do with my time
I think alot of us are kind of feeling the same way. I guess we are fair weather fans.....even though it took me over 50 years of passionate fandom to get to this point. There is nothing, really to make me think Holmgren is committed to making this team a winner. While I wanted Mangini to return for at least one more season, I would have been okay with it, if there was a better option. I don't think Holmgren will coach, just because of the risk that it will damage his reputation....to fail here. Hiring somebody else, he can always place the blame elsewhere next season when we go 5 - 11 again. He wouldn't do that publicly....he would take the blame and say that he is ultimately responsible, but most of the fans would just blame the coach....as usual. Maybe I'm wrong about Holmgren...I sure hope so....but based on what I'm seeing and hearing regarding his search for a HC., I'm not impressed. In fact....I was more excited about Romeo Crennel as HC, than I am about any of these guys. Like I said....I hope I'm wrong.
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How do we know the next coach isn't better than Mangini? John Harbaugh and Mike Smith weren't sexy picks, but they look pretty damn smart now. The coach that's "better than Mangini" is the coach that tops his 5-11 high water mark, period. Not that tough.
This is Holmgren's team. The sense at OBR is exactly what I've been saying, that he's absolutely going to do things his way with people who run his systems and he won't be "hands off" in any way, shape or form. He won't take on the 15 hour days of a head coach but he'll be pulling all the strings. Considering Mangini is NEVER mentioned in the same breath with Holmgren, well... that's a HUGE upgrade.
That means two guys make sense: Shurmur and Mornhinweg... and the latter hasn't been interviewed. There's also Mike Sherman getting some light play, but I think Holmgren likes that Shurmur is "fresh" and only 45, and won't object to being mentored. I also expect our new DC to be a bit sage, like John Fox, to help support Shurmur.
I'm totally down with all of this. I think everybody else will be pretty soon. I love Heckert at GM and I like the idea of Holmgren finally making the Browns HIS team.
How do we know the next coach isn't better than Mangini? John Harbaugh and Mike Smith weren't sexy picks, but they look pretty damn smart now. The coach that's "better than Mangini" is the coach that tops his 5-11 high water mark, period. Not that tough.
Shep, you know it isn't just looking at the record. The schedule will be easier next year. McCoy will have a full off season to polish his skills. If it weren't for Fujita and Robaire being injured we would probably have had a couple of extra wins. Bring in a new guy with our schedule next year and 7-9 or 8-8 is equivalent. 8-8 might be a slight improvement. But, I would have expected at least 8-8 from mangini next year and actually would have given him an ultimatum.
Holmgren didn't like mangini's style and it is his team. He now owns everything and will be fired if this doesn't work.
But, Holmgren probably bought some time. There will be posturing "We need to run a 4-3 to be champions and because of the past years with mangini it will take some time to switch. blah blah blah"
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Cant look at it that way, if 5-11 is 5-11, Cribbs bad year is Cribbs sucks. Black and white, thats the way of these guys...
You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
Who wanted Hillis? Hmmm?
If at first you dont succeed, skydiving is not for you. -
Cant look at it that way, if 5-11 is 5-11, Cribbs bad year is Cribbs sucks. Black and white, thats the way of these guys...
You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
Take the other side of the pendulum, without the 2 fumbles and one pick 6, we're 8 and 8.
Ifs and buts. The one thing I know, record or not, we improved each season with Mangini. Where we improved the most was in the draft tho with Heckert and co. We keep getting some good drafts and we'll be really competitive soon.
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FYI, found someone on the Plain Dealer post this about the new head coach Shurmur, YIKES!!!
Offensive Coordinator Rankings (beginning of season 2010)
32. Pat Shurmur / Rams
With Marc Bulger shell-shocked behind a battered offensive line and the Rams forced to finish the season with third-team rookie QB Keith Null, expectations could not be great for an offense that also finished near the bottom of the league a year ago. But the decision to start Jason Smith at right tackle instead of left tackle slowed his development, and collectively, the Rams were forced to rely on their defense to stay competitive.
SCOUT'S TAKE: "They had a lot of injuries, but for a team that had a veteran quarterback and one of the best running backs in the league, I thought they should have been much better. If I'm Steve Spagnuolo, I'm putting Pat Shurmur on notice. They never moved the ball with any consistency or scored any points. They were atrocious on offense. I like Pat — he has a lot of good qualities as a position coach — but I'm just calling it like it is. A lot of position coaches cannot coordinate, and a lot of coordinators cannot be head coaches, and there are head coaches that cannot be coordinators. The jury is still out on whether Pat can coordinate. ... In the court of public opinion in St. Louis, if he were a steak, he'd be well-done."
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You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
Take the other side of the pendulum, without the 2 fumbles and one pick 6, we're 8 and 8.
Ifs and buts. The one thing I know, record or not, we improved each season with Mangini. Where we improved the most was in the draft tho with Heckert and co. We keep getting some good drafts and we'll be really competitive soon.
Take the other side of the pendulum, without the 2 fumbles and one pick 6, we're 8 and 8.
Ifs and buts. The one thing I know, record or not, we improved each season with Mangini. Where we improved the most was in the draft tho with Heckert and co. We keep getting some good drafts and we'll be really competitive soon.
i'll take reality-- 5-11 and 5-11 with a bright outlook whoever coaches next year.
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Cant look at it that way, if 5-11 is 5-11, Cribbs bad year is Cribbs sucks. Black and white, thats the way of these guys...
You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
So does that mean if we add one more person to the equation we become 10-6? People can arguee all they want but we had tons of injuries and mistakes made by both the players and coaches so this falls on everyone, including Holmgren and the GM for not getting us better back ups in the offseason. We can play the what if game all day but it wont change anything.
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You're dreaming if you think Browns fans aren't smarter than that.
You guys are making Mangini out to be much smarter than he is. Take one person out of the equation - Peyton Hillis - and we win 2 games max.
So does that mean if we add one more person to the equation we become 10-6? People can arguee all they want but we had tons of injuries and mistakes made by both the players and coaches so this falls on everyone, including Holmgren and the GM for not getting us better back ups in the offseason. We can play the what if game all day but it wont change anything.
So does that mean if we add one more person to the equation we become 10-6? People can arguee all they want but we had tons of injuries and mistakes made by both the players and coaches so this falls on everyone, including Holmgren and the GM for not getting us better back ups in the offseason. We can play the what if game all day but it wont change anything.
Yes, and because of multiple mistakes by all these people, you can make a case for getting rid of the head coach.
And Holmgren and Heckert can't flip the entire roster over that Mangini built, and then blame him for the losses by stripping him of "his guys." Make no mistake about it, Mangini had more to do with the lack of depth on this team than anyone. He could have brought in more depth, but his "process" and his love of ST's guys gutted the opportunity's for depth on this team.
The first things Holmgren said was he and Heckert are here to give the HC what he needs. You think Mangini told them he has no depth, "please get rid of all these mediocre guys who buy into my system?"
Yeah that happened.
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Who wanted Hillis? Hmmm?
And Heckert made it happen. Look who took out Hillis in the first game vs TB. We didn't do much without him did we? So instead of sticking with the guy and giving him some confidence, you bench him in the first game. Mangini mishandled a lot of players on game day (or making them inactive.)
But sure, I give props to Eric for getting Heckert to grab him. +1 to Mangini.
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Who wanted Hillis? Hmmm?
And Heckert made it happen. Look who took out Hillis in the first game vs TB. We didn't do much without him did we? So instead of sticking with the guy and giving him some confidence, you bench him in the first game. Mangini mishandled a lot of players on game day (or making them inactive.)
But sure, I give props to Eric for getting Heckert to grab him. +1 to Mangini.
And Heckert made it happen. Look who took out Hillis in the first game vs TB. We didn't do much without him did we? So instead of sticking with the guy and giving him some confidence, you bench him in the first game. Mangini mishandled a lot of players on game day (or making them inactive.)
But sure, I give props to Eric for getting Heckert to grab him. +1 to Mangini.
Holy bloody hell, you spin EVERYTHING into a negative with Mangini dont you? do something personally against you or something? LOL! How about how much BETTER this team has been with penalties, points allowed, started Colt after healthy didnt he? How many backup QBs can come in and win in the NFL by the way?
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And Heckert made it happen. Look who took out Hillis in the first game vs TB. We didn't do much without him did we? So instead of sticking with the guy and giving him some confidence, you bench him in the first game. Mangini mishandled a lot of players on game day (or making them inactive.)
But sure, I give props to Eric for getting Heckert to grab him. +1 to Mangini.
Holy bloody hell, you spin EVERYTHING into a negative with Mangini dont you? do something personally against you or something? LOL! How about how much BETTER this team has been with penalties, points allowed, started Colt after healthy didnt he? How many backup QBs can come in and win in the NFL by the way?
Holy bloody hell, you spin EVERYTHING into a negative with Mangini dont you?
Mangini just got axed by his 2nd organization in his 2nd season - again. There is a lot of negatives.
Sure, none of this is his fault.
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Holy bloody hell, you spin EVERYTHING into a negative with Mangini dont you?
Mangini just got axed by his 2nd organization in his 2nd season - again. There is a lot of negatives.
Sure, none of this is his fault.
Mangini just got axed by his 2nd organization in his 2nd season - again. There is a lot of negatives.
Sure, none of this is his fault.
First, he was after his 3rd season with the Jets.....second, fired means everything was his fault? HA! No wonder Browns fans are confused.......
I love the Browns, but the fans CAN BE the dumbest in the NFL sometimes. Not all, but some of you.
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This is all about Holmgren instituting his philosophy and style of play on the team, assisted by people he knows and trusts. I think he gave Mangini and his assistants a chance, but felt like they were not going to get there fast enough (or ever). If any of us was hired to do a job and we gave the people who were on board before we came a chance and, after a year or so, felt (1) we could bring in our own team and (2) our own team had a better shot at getting us to the end goal, we'd all do the same. This isn't E-Harmony, it's the NFL and you either win or you go bye-bye. New boss, new team of coaches.
It's gonna happen, rather than fret and worry and gripe, why not let things unfold and support the folks that get put in place. You can always grumble about the past, but that doesn't do a thing for the future. Embrace the change and hope for the best. Lord knows if these new guys fail we are all great at complaining and saying "I told you so".
The one and only time losing is acceptable is when it involves your virginity. -
This is all about Holmgren instituting his philosophy and style of play on the team, assisted by people he knows and trusts. I think he gave Mangini and his assistants a chance, but felt like they were not going to get there fast enough (or ever). If any of us was hired to do a job and we gave the people who were on board before we came a chance and, after a year or so, felt (1) we could bring in our own team and (2) our own team had a better shot at getting us to the end goal, we'd all do the same. This isn't E-Harmony, it's the NFL and you either win or you go bye-bye. New boss, new team of coaches.
It's gonna happen, rather than fret and worry and gripe, why not let things unfold and support the folks that get put in place. You can always grumble about the past, but that doesn't do a thing for the future. Embrace the change and hope for the best. Lord knows if these new guys fail we are all great at complaining and saying "I told you so".
This is all about Holmgren instituting his philosophy and style of play on the team, assisted by people he knows and trusts. I think he gave Mangini and his assistants a chance, but felt like they were not going to get there fast enough (or ever). If any of us was hired to do a job and we gave the people who were on board before we came a chance and, after a year or so, felt (1) we could bring in our own team and (2) our own team had a better shot at getting us to the end goal, we'd all do the same. This isn't E-Harmony, it's the NFL and you either win or you go bye-bye. New boss, new team of coaches.
It's gonna happen, rather than fret and worry and gripe, why not let things unfold and support the folks that get put in place. You can always grumble about the past, but that doesn't do a thing for the future. Embrace the change and hope for the best. Lord knows if these new guys fail we are all great at complaining and saying "I told you so".
Bottom line, FIRE MANGINI! BRING IN A PROVEN HEAD COACH LIKE GRUDEN! OH, I MEAN SHURMUR! HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!
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...and if Shurmur gets us to the playoffs, Holmgren was right.....I wouldn't care if Carrot Top came in to coach if he got us to have the best record in the division.
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...and if Shurmur gets us to the playoffs, Holmgren was right.....I wouldn't care if Carrot Top came in to coach if he got us to have the best record in the division.
...and if Shurmur gets us to the playoffs, Holmgren was right.....I wouldn't care if Carrot Top came in to coach if he got us to have the best record in the division.
Odds that Shurmur getting us to the playoffs next year are WAY less than the odds that Mangini would have. This was ego, plain and simple.
If at first you dont succeed, skydiving is not for you. -
For folks in Mangini's corner, if our record is a lot better next year it will be because we had a much easier schedule. We'll never be able to get all of us to agree on much other than the Browns are the greatest NFL team ever, Pittsburgh fans suck donkey dangles, and WRREBEL really did sleep with Gruden.
The one and only time losing is acceptable is when it involves your virginity. -
For folks in Mangini's corner, if our record is a lot better next year it will be because we had a much easier schedule. We'll never be able to get all of us to agree on much other than the Browns are the greatest NFL team ever, Pittsburgh fans suck donkey dangles, and WRREBEL really did sleep with Gruden.
For folks in Mangini's corner, if our record is a lot better next year it will be because we had a much easier schedule. We'll never be able to get all of us to agree on much other than the Browns are the greatest NFL team ever, Pittsburgh fans suck donkey dangles, and WRREBEL really did sleep with Gruden.
Wow. Talk about stacking the deck. If we lose a lot is it Mangini's fault? Or is this all Bill Clinton's fault, too?
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For folks in Mangini's corner, if our record is a lot better next year it will be because we had a much easier schedule. We'll never be able to get all of us to agree on much other than the Browns are the greatest NFL team ever, Pittsburgh fans suck donkey dangles, and WRREBEL really did sleep with Gruden.
Wow. Talk about stacking the deck. If we lose a lot is it Mangini's fault? Or is this all Bill Clinton's fault, too?
Wow. Talk about stacking the deck. If we lose a lot is it Mangini's fault? Or is this all Bill Clinton's fault, too?
Did you know Bush caused the brown spot in my back yard? Wasnt the dog, it was Bush pissing by the tree........
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How do we know the next coach isn't better than Mangini? John Harbaugh and Mike Smith weren't sexy picks, but they look pretty damn smart now. The coach that's "better than Mangini" is the coach that tops his 5-11 high water mark, period. Not that tough.
This is Holmgren's team. The sense at OBR is exactly what I've been saying, that he's absolutely going to do things his way with people who run his systems and he won't be "hands off" in any way, shape or form. He won't take on the 15 hour days of a head coach but he'll be pulling all the strings. Considering Mangini is NEVER mentioned in the same breath with Holmgren, well... that's a HUGE upgrade.
That means two guys make sense: Shurmur and Mornhinweg... and the latter hasn't been interviewed. There's also Mike Sherman getting some light play, but I think Holmgren likes that Shurmur is "fresh" and only 45, and won't object to being mentored. I also expect our new DC to be a bit sage, like John Fox, to help support Shurmur.
I'm totally down with all of this. I think everybody else will be pretty soon. I love Heckert at GM and I like the idea of Holmgren finally making the Browns HIS team.
Thank you, Mrs. Holmgren!
Thank you, Mrs. Holmgren!
That... was funny. Said like Chelsea Handler. Which is who I really am.
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