Tight Ends
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Too bad you closed the other Tight End thread. I was going to add something useful to it. Nevertheless, here you go. Elsewhere there was some discussion about how good the TEs of the AFCN actually were. Of course the subject may in fact be a matter of opinion, but YAHOO.com put out their opinion on who the best TEs in the league were going into the 2011 season (and we will assume there will be one). I suspect these were done for fantasy football purposes, but I am not sure where else you can go to get player rankings any more besides fantasy BS. Here were their rankings:
1. Dallas Clark, Indy
2. Antonio Gates, SD
3. Vernon Davis, SF
4. Jason Witten, Dallas
5. Jermichael Finley, GB
6. Owen Daniels, Houston
7. Tony Gonzales, ATL
8. Zach Miller, OAK
9. Dustin Keller, NYJets
10. Brent Celek, Philly
11. K2, TB
12. Mercedes Lewis, Jax
13. Chris Cooley, Wash.
14. Greg Olsen, CHI
15. Jermaine Gresham, Cincy
16. Heath Miller, Pitt.
17. Brandon Pettigrew, DET.
18. Visanthe Shiancoe, Minn.
19. Kevin Boss, NY Giants
20. Tony Scheffer, Det.
21. Ben Watson, CLE
22. Rob Gronkowski, NE
23. Dante Rosario, Carolina
24. Todd Heap, BALT
25. Aaron Hernandez, NE
So, as I see it there is plenty of room for debate about the qualities of the TEs in the AFCN.
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I don't feel like making a list but #1 is Antonio Gates and it is by a very very wide margin.
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OK, now, lets just look at some raw statistics. Here are the top 18 TEs by number of catches last year, 2010. I will put their name then 3 figures like this: 99/999/9 that will represent simply the number of catches, yards, and TDs:
Witten 94/1002/9
Cooley 77/849/3
Pettigrew 71/722/4
Gonzales 70/656/6
Watson 68/763/3
K2 66/730/5
Z. Miller 60/685/5
M. Lewis 58/700/10
Davis 56/914/7
Keller 55/687/5
Gresham 52/471/4
Gates 50/782/10
Shiancoe 47/530/2
Hernandez 45/563/6
Celek 42/511/4
Gronkowski 42/546/10
H. Miller 42/512/2
Olsen 41/404/5
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That does look like a Fantasy ranking list. The league I play in doesn't make you have a TE so they are lunmped into the reciever catagory so usually there is only 5-6 TE picked at all.
As for the AFCN TE position.2 are decent-good and the other 2 are bad-old. Heath Miller can't stay on the field beacuse of injury.Todd Heap is washed up and might want to consider retirement. Ben Watson just had his career year, he's probably the best right now but Gresham is the youngest, and is pretty good but he plays in Cincy. Who knows who will be throwing him the ball?
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
I don't feel like making a list but #1 is Antonio Gates and it is by a very very wide margin.
I don't feel like making a list but #1 is Antonio Gates and it is by a very very wide margin.
In an effort to keep it simple I didn't do a ypc figure, but you can see from Gates numbers he certainly would be very high in that category. But going back and looking at it, of the TEs listed Gates is 2d in ypc with 15.6 behind Vernon Davis who has a 16.3 ypc average. The lowest of these was Gresham actually at 9.1. Watson was pretty average at 11.2.
And Gates was tied with the most TDs with 10.
Maybe the Browns can find another power forward to convert for the position.
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That does look like a Fantasy ranking list. The league I play in doesn't make you have a TE so they are lunmped into the reciever catagory so usually there is only 5-6 TE picked at all.
As for the AFCN TE position.2 are decent-good and the other 2 are bad-old. Heath Miller can't stay on the field beacuse of injury.Todd Heap is washed up and might want to consider retirement. Ben Watson just had his career year, he's probably the best right now but Gresham is the youngest, and is pretty good but he plays in Cincy. Who knows who will be throwing him the ball?
That does look like a Fantasy ranking list. The league I play in doesn't make you have a TE so they are lunmped into the reciever catagory so usually there is only 5-6 TE picked at all.
As for the AFCN TE position.2 are decent-good and the other 2 are bad-old. Heath Miller can't stay on the field beacuse of injury.Todd Heap is washed up and might want to consider retirement. Ben Watson just had his career year, he's probably the best right now but Gresham is the youngest, and is pretty good but he plays in Cincy. Who knows who will be throwing him the ball?
Miller has missed 4 games in 6 years, I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. Heap just had a solid year, the knock on him is the same one you used for Miller. Watson is an average TE and the jury is still out on Gresham.
Miller
Heap
Watson
Gresham
That is how I would rank them.
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I don't feel like making a list but #1 is Antonio Gates and it is by a very very wide margin.
In an effort to keep it simple I didn't do a ypc figure, but you can see from Gates numbers he certainly would be very high in that category. But going back and looking at it, of the TEs listed Gates is 2d in ypc with 15.6 behind Vernon Davis who has a 16.3 ypc average. The lowest of these was Gresham actually at 9.1. Watson was pretty average at 11.2.
And Gates was tied with the most TDs with 10.
Maybe the Browns can find another power forward to convert for the position.
In an effort to keep it simple I didn't do a ypc figure, but you can see from Gates numbers he certainly would be very high in that category. But going back and looking at it, of the TEs listed Gates is 2d in ypc with 15.6 behind Vernon Davis who has a 16.3 ypc average. The lowest of these was Gresham actually at 9.1. Watson was pretty average at 11.2.
And Gates was tied with the most TDs with 10.
Maybe the Browns can find another power forward to convert for the position
.Don't forget that Gates missed basically half of the season. He had 9 TDs in his first 8 games before the injury and was about to blister all TE records for a season. It is a shame that he got hurt.
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That does look like a Fantasy ranking list. The league I play in doesn't make you have a TE so they are lunmped into the reciever catagory so usually there is only 5-6 TE picked at all.
As for the AFCN TE position.2 are decent-good and the other 2 are bad-old. Heath Miller can't stay on the field beacuse of injury.Todd Heap is washed up and might want to consider retirement. Ben Watson just had his career year, he's probably the best right now but Gresham is the youngest, and is pretty good but he plays in Cincy. Who knows who will be throwing him the ball?
Miller has missed 4 games in 6 years, I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. Heap just had a solid year, the knock on him is the same one you used for Miller. Watson is an average TE and the jury is still out on Gresham.
Miller
Heap
Watson
Gresham
That is how I would rank them.
Miller has missed 4 games in 6 years, I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. Heap just had a solid year, the knock on him is the same one you used for Miller. Watson is an average TE and the jury is still out on Gresham.
Miller
Heap
Watson
Gresham
That is how I would rank them.
Watson is a good TE and a complete tight end. he is one of the top blocking TE in the NFL and he will catch anything that comes to him.
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Miller has missed 4 games in 6 years, I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. Heap just had a solid year, the knock on him is the same one you used for Miller. Watson is an average TE and the jury is still out on Gresham.
Miller
Heap
Watson
Gresham
That is how I would rank them.
Watson is a good TE and a complete tight end. he is one of the top blocking TE in the NFL and he will catch anything that comes to him.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Watson is a good TE and a complete tight end. he is one of the top blocking TE in the NFL and he will catch anything that comes to him.You do realize that Watson is in fact known for his drops in NE, don't you?
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Watson is a good TE and a complete tight end. he is one of the top blocking TE in the NFL and he will catch anything that comes to him.You do realize that Watson is in fact known for his drops in NE, don't you?
You do realize that Watson is in fact known for his drops in NE, don't you?
Wow because he didn't really drop that many with us this year did he. I just don't understand how he can be one of the best run blockers as a TE in the league and have the production that he had this season and only be considered average. I would defiantly take him over Heap or Miller and I think at worst he is just as good as those two.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
That does look like a Fantasy ranking list. The league I play in doesn't make you have a TE so they are lunmped into the reciever catagory so usually there is only 5-6 TE picked at all.
As for the AFCN TE position.2 are decent-good and the other 2 are bad-old. Heath Miller can't stay on the field beacuse of injury.Todd Heap is washed up and might want to consider retirement. Ben Watson just had his career year, he's probably the best right now but Gresham is the youngest, and is pretty good but he plays in Cincy. Who knows who will be throwing him the ball?
That does look like a Fantasy ranking list. The league I play in doesn't make you have a TE so they are lunmped into the reciever catagory so usually there is only 5-6 TE picked at all.
As for the AFCN TE position.2 are decent-good and the other 2 are bad-old. Heath Miller can't stay on the field beacuse of injury.Todd Heap is washed up and might want to consider retirement. Ben Watson just had his career year, he's probably the best right now but Gresham is the youngest, and is pretty good but he plays in Cincy. Who knows who will be throwing him the ball?
I'm a Steeler homer but where the hell do you get this sh.it? Heath Miller can't stay on the field because of injury? and Todd Heap is washed up? Todd Heap is the one with the injury problems and he's far from washed up. Ben Watson isn't anywhere close to the best in the AFC North. As far as Heath Miller is concerned he's not used in the same passing capacity as most of the tight ends in the league. He had a big year the season before this past season but he's not seeing all the passing love like he did the year before because of the emergence of Sanders and Brown. The ranking is also definitely fantasy football so that's all about big numbers. I mean if we're going to look at this objectively Ben Watson was one of the few options in the Browns passing game. However above all else Colt McCoy is a rookie so the TE is the safety valve and Watson's number show that pretty clearly. If Watson were at the top of his game Capt. Hoodie wouldn't have let him walk and turn around and draft two TE's.
Now as far as Gate's is concerned he's a great, great TE but he's also injury prone and Pizza for you to say by a "wide, wide margin" is insane. It's not a wide, wide margin if we're talking pure pass catching te's. However outside of Vincent Jackson who is always in some sort of turmoil Gates is also the only sure thing in that attack as well. Malcom Floyd came on as did Legadu but he gets the looks because it's basically Jackson and Gates. If you're talking tangible football rankings Fantasy football has to be one of the worst ways to measure. It's all about the gawdy numbers and nothing more.
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone is labeling Watson as anything special. Seriously.
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mikeyP72 said:
Lol at Heath Millers amazing receiving stats.Who ever said anything about "amazing receiving stats" Heath Miller does it all and in NFL circles is regarded as one of the better te's. He's not a fantasy football powerhouse so he flies under the radar. It's not much different with Big Ben seeing as a lot of sources put him on the fringe but if you ask the football insiders he's always in the top 5. Ask Bill Polian of the Colts. He recently went on the record and said the same. Find a TE in the NFL that does absolutely everything and is a leader in the locker room. He put up the numbers in 09 because he was used more in the passing game. Fact of the matter is the Steelers have never used the TE as a primary target in the offense. It's the system not Heath Miller because Heath Miller is a beast. Ben xxxxing Watson lmao.
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You do realize that Watson is in fact known for his drops in NE, don't you?
Wow because he didn't really drop that many with us this year did he. I just don't understand how he can be one of the best run blockers as a TE in the league and have the production that he had this season and only be considered average. I would defiantly take him over Heap or Miller and I think at worst he is just as good as those two.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Wow because he didn't really drop that many with us this year did he. I just don't understand how he can be one of the best run blockers as a TE in the league and have the production that he had this season and only be considered average. I would defiantly take him over Heap or Miller and I think at worst he is just as good as those two.You would be downgrading. This is the guy's first above average year in six and it is due to Cleveland's lack of targets. He did look decent compared our other receiving options though. I just think that you guys are severely overrating the guy. Look at the two rookie TEs that came to NE this year, they BOTH equaled or bettered any year that Watson had in NE. That really should shine a light on things.
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mikeyP72 said:
Lol at Heath Millers amazing receiving stats.Who ever said anything about "amazing receiving stats" Heath Miller does it all and in NFL circles is regarded as one of the better te's. He's not a fantasy football powerhouse so he flies under the radar. It's not much different with Big Ben seeing as a lot of sources put him on the fringe but if you ask the football insiders he's always in the top 5. Ask Bill Polian of the Colts. He recently went on the record and said the same. Find a TE in the NFL that does absolutely everything and is a leader in the locker room. He put up the numbers in 09 because he was used more in the passing game. Fact of the matter is the Steelers have never used the TE as a primary target in the offense. It's the system not Heath Miller because Heath Miller is a beast. Ben xxxxing Watson lmao.
Homotron said:
Who ever said anything about "amazing receiving stats" Heath Miller does it all and in NFL circles is regarded as one of the better te's. He's not a fantasy football powerhouse so he flies under the radar. It's not much different with Big Ben seeing as a lot of sources put him on the fringe but if you ask the football insiders he's always in the top 5. Ask Bill Polian of the Colts. He recently went on the record and said the same. Find a TE in the NFL that does absolutely everything and is a leader in the locker room. He put up the numbers in 09 because he was used more in the passing game. Fact of the matter is the Steelers have never used the TE as a primary target in the offense. It's the system not Heath Miller because Heath Miller is a beast. Ben xxxxing Watson lmao.Miller is solid but you really need to pump the brakes on your manlove for him.
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That does look like a Fantasy ranking list. The league I play in doesn't make you have a TE so they are lunmped into the reciever catagory so usually there is only 5-6 TE picked at all.
As for the AFCN TE position.2 are decent-good and the other 2 are bad-old. Heath Miller can't stay on the field beacuse of injury.Todd Heap is washed up and might want to consider retirement. Ben Watson just had his career year, he's probably the best right now but Gresham is the youngest, and is pretty good but he plays in Cincy. Who knows who will be throwing him the ball?
I'm a Steeler homer but where the hell do you get this sh.it? Heath Miller can't stay on the field because of injury? and Todd Heap is washed up? Todd Heap is the one with the injury problems and he's far from washed up. Ben Watson isn't anywhere close to the best in the AFC North. As far as Heath Miller is concerned he's not used in the same passing capacity as most of the tight ends in the league. He had a big year the season before this past season but he's not seeing all the passing love like he did the year before because of the emergence of Sanders and Brown. The ranking is also definitely fantasy football so that's all about big numbers. I mean if we're going to look at this objectively Ben Watson was one of the few options in the Browns passing game. However above all else Colt McCoy is a rookie so the TE is the safety valve and Watson's number show that pretty clearly. If Watson were at the top of his game Capt. Hoodie wouldn't have let him walk and turn around and draft two TE's.
Now as far as Gate's is concerned he's a great, great TE but he's also injury prone and Pizza for you to say by a "wide, wide margin" is insane. It's not a wide, wide margin if we're talking pure pass catching te's. However outside of Vincent Jackson who is always in some sort of turmoil Gates is also the only sure thing in that attack as well. Malcom Floyd came on as did Legadu but he gets the looks because it's basically Jackson and Gates. If you're talking tangible football rankings Fantasy football has to be one of the worst ways to measure. It's all about the gawdy numbers and nothing more.
I'm still trying to figure out why anyone is labeling Watson as anything special. Seriously.
Homotron said:
Now as far as Gate's is concerned he's a great, great TE but he's also injury prone and Pizza for you to say by a "wide, wide margin" is insane. It's not a wide, wide margin if we're talking pure pass catching te's.Before this year he had played every game in the previous 4 years. Before that he missed 3 games in three years.
Look at what the man has done. He played six less games than other TEs this year and finished 4th in yards and 1st in TDs
Again, it is Gates>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everyone else.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Wow because he didn't really drop that many with us this year did he. I just don't understand how he can be one of the best run blockers as a TE in the league and have the production that he had this season and only be considered average. I would defiantly take him over Heap or Miller and I think at worst he is just as good as those two.You would be downgrading. This is the guy's first above average year in six and it is due to Cleveland's lack of targets. He did look decent compared our other receiving options though. I just think that you guys are severely overrating the guy. Look at the two rookie TEs that came to NE this year, they BOTH equaled or bettered any year that Watson had in NE. That really should shine a light on things.
You would be downgrading. This is the guy's first above average year in six and it is due to Cleveland's lack of targets. He did look decent compared our other receiving options though. I just think that you guys are severely overrating the guy. Look at the two rookie TEs that came to NE this year, they BOTH equaled or bettered any year that Watson had in NE. That really should shine a light on things.
Something that is bound to happen when you draft two recieving tight ends on a team that has Tom Brady as a QB and lost their #1 receiver (Moss due to age/stupidness) and were never able to replace him (Branch isn't the answer). If you put Watson on that team and make him a legit starting TE that doesn't line up in the slot he does as good if not better.
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Homotard is still trying to justify his man-love for Miller...incredible...Id take BW over him anyday of the year...
Homotard is still trying to justify his man-love for Miller...incredible...Id take BW over him anyday of the year...
lol and you'd be a moron. Watson is a Brown for a reason. He couldn't sign a contract anywhere else and had to know he'd be a primary option in easily one of the weakest receiving cores in the league. If we really wanna go there and with the "homo-tard" stuff does that mean I can start using "Retard" again? Because believe it or not I purposely stop my self from using it out of respect for whomever took issue with it previously. My posts would be just "a tick" faster if I could start throwing it around again.
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Homo... you realize that "tight end" is just the name of his position, don't you? I know how you Squeeler fags love your "tight ends."
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You would be downgrading. This is the guy's first above average year in six and it is due to Cleveland's lack of targets. He did look decent compared our other receiving options though. I just think that you guys are severely overrating the guy. Look at the two rookie TEs that came to NE this year, they BOTH equaled or bettered any year that Watson had in NE. That really should shine a light on things.
Something that is bound to happen when you draft two recieving tight ends on a team that has Tom Brady as a QB and lost their #1 receiver (Moss due to age/stupidness) and were never able to replace him (Branch isn't the answer). If you put Watson on that team and make him a legit starting TE that doesn't line up in the slot he does as good if not better.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Something that is bound to happen when you draft two recieving tight ends on a team that has Tom Brady as a QB and lost their #1 receiver (Moss due to age/stupidness) and were never able to replace him (Branch isn't the answer). If you put Watson on that team and make him a legit starting TE that doesn't line up in the slot he does as good if not better.Wow. Just wow.
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