Randy Lerner Losing Popularity At Aston Villa

villa til i die

Gipper, you said

"I don't know if it goes that far. Very few cities in America have more than 1 team per town in the major sports. Only NYC, Chicago and LA do"

In England its more like 2 or 3, maybe more teams in a city and its outskirts (within 30 miles of each other). Rivalry in English 'soccer' is something very different to what you experience over in the US. When Aston Villa play our main rival, Birmingham City (who's former coach Randy Lerner is trying to employ) it is always on a Sunday at midday and the police presence is increased 10fold.

This is typical of a 'Second City Derby' as its known.

It's not banter, its not a laugh, a couple of years ago a Villa fan was killed after Aston Villa beat Birmingham City 5-1, i'm not trying to glorify the violence i just think you need to know the importance of local pride in English football (soccer).

villaqnois

Zombo said:

Ya, well, soccer's gay.

Zombo

still lmao.

Not wanting a debate on football versus american football, it's a cultural thing. Just seriously wondering whether as an owner of the Browns Randy has encountered or if such appointment was made would encounter a hostile backlash. Don't get me wrong by the way, I would still say that Randy has the backing of the majority of supporters, they just think he's temporarily gone insane

villa til i die

@villa-til-i-die said:

Gipper, you said

"I don't know if it goes that far. Very few cities in America have more than 1 team per town in the major sports. Only NYC, Chicago and LA do"

In England its more like 2 or 3, maybe more teams in a city and its outskirts (within 30 miles of each other). Rivalry in English 'soccer' is something very different to what you experience over in the US. When Aston Villa play our main rival, Birmingham City (who's former coach Randy Lerner is trying to employ) it is always on a Sunday at midday and the police presence is increased 10fold.

This is typical of a 'Second City Derby' as its known.

It's not banter, its not a laugh, a couple of years ago a Villa fan was killed after Aston Villa beat Birmingham City 5-1, i'm not trying to glorify the violence i just think you need to know the importance of local pride in English football (soccer).

Well, the "hooliganism" of English soccer fans is well renowned. I am not sure it is a thing to be proud for some of these guys, even though they may think it is. They may as well wear a sign around their necks saying "I'm a F****ing Idiot". Fair to say?

DieHardBrownsFan

Zombo said:

Lerner made a bit of a strange selection when chose Eric Mangini as head coach, the story goes that one of the reporters said that Randy perked up at a press conference when he was told Mangini was fired, then he went out and hired him when there were more "savory" guys available. He also hired a guy to be GM that was gone in 6 months which left the team rudderless with only poor Mangini in charge. Mangini is a good enough football guy, but he had no chance. Then, finally, Lerner signed Mike Holmgren as President and to handle all football operations, including hires, and Lerner goes off to England and meddles with your soccer team instead. Best thing Lerner ever did was hand the reigns over to Holmgren and get out of the way. He's got deep pockets (thanks to Daddy), but he's not much of an administrator.

He does seem to be a loyal guy that cares about the fans though.

Zombo

Exactly. His old man was a Marine, and a Marine Flag flies above Browns Stadium. But his son, the current owner is kind of a puss--y. Probably grew up a rich boy and never new anything hard. That being said, he did inherit the team and I think he is doing his best.

The Gipper

Zombo said:

Lerner made a bit of a strange selection when chose Eric Mangini as head coach, the story goes that one of the reporters said that Randy perked up at a press conference when he was told Mangini was fired, then he went out and hired him when there were more "savory" guys available. He also hired a guy to be GM that was gone in 6 months which left the team rudderless with only poor Mangini in charge. Mangini is a good enough football guy, but he had no chance. Then, finally, Lerner signed Mike Holmgren as President and to handle all football operations, including hires, and Lerner goes off to England and meddles with your soccer team instead. Best thing Lerner ever did was hand the reigns over to Holmgren and get out of the way. He's got deep pockets (thanks to Daddy), but he's not much of an administrator.

He does seem to be a loyal guy that cares about the fans though.

Zombo

Yea, that is why I said originally that you need to tell us whether or not Randy learned his lesson from the Browns and applied it over there. Possibly not by what you are saying.

I think he means well, but just has had trouble getting the right people in place on his teams.

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

Well, the "hooliganism" of English soccer fans is well renowned. I am not sure it is a thing to be proud for some of these guys, even though they may think it is. They may as well wear a sign around their necks saying "I'm a F****ing Idiot". Fair to say?

If i were you i would be thinking exactly that. However, as someone that has been to many of these games i have to admit that no matter how calm and non-violent a person you are, it is hard to keep control of your emotions. It is absolute hatred, that is the one word that sums it up... Hatred!

Back on topic, Randy has really betrayed the fans on this one. I honestly dont know what the equivalent would be for you guys... An englishman buying your team then appointing the worst possible coach he can think of, despite protests at the Stadium from fans, players saying it would be bad for team morale, death threats to owner and coach, getting sued by your bitter rivals and fans burning their season tickets and jerseys! It is a complete mind f**k that he has chosen this guy, it will lead to riots in the city!

For the record, i know nothing about NFL, i like to watch it occasionally, but i joined to know how you guys feel about Lerner... Good night one and all

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

Well, the "hooliganism" of English soccer fans is well renowned. I am not sure it is a thing to be proud for some of these guys, even though they may think it is. They may as well wear a sign around their necks saying "I'm a F****ing Idiot". Fair to say?

If i were you i would be thinking exactly that. However, as someone that has been to many of these games i have to admit that no matter how calm and non-violent a person you are, it is hard to keep control of your emotions. It is absolute hatred, that is the one word that sums it up... Hatred!

Back on topic, Randy has really betrayed the fans on this one. I honestly dont know what the equivalent would be for you guys... An englishman buying your team then appointing the worst possible coach he can think of, despite protests at the Stadium from fans, players saying it would be bad for team morale, death threats to owner and coach, getting sued by your bitter rivals and fans burning their season tickets and jerseys! It is a complete mind f**k that he has chosen this guy, it will lead to riots in the city!

For the record, i know nothing about NFL, i like to watch it occasionally, but i joined to know how you guys feel about Lerner... Good night one and all

villaqnois

Zombo said:

Lerner made a bit of a strange selection when chose Eric Mangini as head coach, the story goes that one of the reporters said that Randy perked up at a press conference when he was told Mangini was fired, then he went out and hired him when there were more "savory" guys available. He also hired a guy to be GM that was gone in 6 months which left the team rudderless with only poor Mangini in charge. Mangini is a good enough football guy, but he had no chance. Then, finally, Lerner signed Mike Holmgren as President and to handle all football operations, including hires, and Lerner goes off to England and meddles with your soccer team instead. Best thing Lerner ever did was hand the reigns over to Holmgren and get out of the way. He's got deep pockets (thanks to Daddy), but he's not much of an administrator.

He does seem to be a loyal guy that cares about the fans though.

Zombo

I live in hope then that he's on a learning curve at the Villa. He has the equivalent of club president he leaves to run the club who a lot of fans are laying the blame on. He's considered an American pr guy with no knowledge of "soccer" (by Villa fans) who I guess is a guy Randy trusts. Appreciate all the replies and good luck to The Browns from The Limeys

villaqnois

@villaqnois said:

My link

Randy Lerner is expected to name a new manager who was allegedly

'tapped up" from Aston Villa's fiercest rivals.

Randy should keep his priorities in order. If you can throw money around in soccer you need to be buying the building blocks for your real "football" team. No one around here gives rats azz about his kick ball team winning or losing.

Speedyd900rr

Some of you are a little harsh on these guys who are just looking for information. I think you forget that they are just as passionate about they're sport as we are about ours.

I would bet everything I own that if one of them were to tell you how stupud american football is you would take offense and start trash taking them.

No wonder everyone hates Americans.

villaqnois

@villaqnois said:

I live in hope then that he's on a learning curve at the Villa. He has the equivalent of club president he leaves to run the club who a lot of fans are laying the blame on.

Well, he has done the same thing here....hired a well respected Club President. A former Super Bowl winning coach and GM. Doesn't the guy he hired for AV have a similar type background?

He's considered an American pr guy with no knowledge of "soccer" (by Villa fans) who I guess is a guy Randy trusts. Appreciate all the replies and good luck to The Browns from The Limeys

Refresh our memories: who is the American PR guy that Lerner hired to run AV?

Sometimes, over here, a team will hire a "Club President" whose only real job is to run the club finances and PR, but not to run the football operations. That is what the "General Manager" does. In the past the Browns have had that model, but not now. Now they have hired Holmgren, the Super Bowl coach/GM, as Club President, and Tom Heckert as GM. Heckert's job is primarily talent acquisition. Together they have hired a new Head Coach, Pat Shurmur.

All these guys are "Football" guys, not accountants or PR types, though that certainly falls within their duties.

The Gipper

Zombo said:

They know we're just xxxxing with them. It's mid-June and there's a lockout ... we're getting antsy.

Besides we don't include the English as "Euro Sofites", the Limeys have proven their metal over and over, they are tough SOBs and their soccer league is the best.

Zombo

--that said, soccer is gay.

Although, Andrew Jackson with only about 4000 men, did open a can of whoopass on the British who had about 20,000 men at the Battle of New Orleans.

And don't forget Saratoga and Yorktown. And the Cowpens.

And don't forget about the Battle of Lake Erie.

Westide Steve can tell you about it:

http://www.westsidesteve.com/

The Gipper

Zombo said:

Well, they're not AMERICAN tough ... but those mofos never backed down to Hitler, while the Frenchies rolled over like ... well, like a French whore.

Zombo

OK, but remember, it was the French that helped us defeat Britain and gain our independence.

Think about it though: I don't believe the US has ever fought a war against the French. We have had wars with most other major European countries: Britain twice. Spain, Italy, Germany twice, Austria/Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, even a cold war with Russia.

Though, apparently there was some kind of "Quasi-War", undeclared between the US and France from 1798-1800 over French Privateers attacking American shipping. Apparently Revolutionary France was angry that the US declared its neutrality in it conflict with Britain.

They were also angry that the US didn't repay its monetary debt to France from the American Revolution. Apparently the US claimed it owed the government of the French Royal Crown that had been deposed, not the new French Revolutionary government. There were really only a few minor skirmishes that occurred in this "war", mainly over French ships attacking merchant vessels and attempting to impress US citizens into its navy. The French would grab these ships, and the US would try to grab them back. The whole "conflict" ended when Napolean came to power and made peace with the US.

hoorta

Zombo said:

They know we're just xxxxing with them. It's mid-June and there's a lockout ... we're getting antsy.

Besides we don't include the English as "Euro Sofites", the Limeys have proven their metal over and over, they are tough SOBs and their soccer league is the best.

Zombo

--that said, soccer is gay.

Hey Z you don't have to like it- just try to understand it- slow motion hockey.

And after watching some of the clips- I proclaim that baseball is pretty gay too. Must take drugs to up home run count.

Some pu$$y catcher's agent is whining because a guy slid into him too hard? How about Buckner losing the World Series flubbing a ball with a mistake that pee-wee league kids are taught to avoid?

PS I'm all for taking flares and baseball bats to Browns Steelers games.

villaqnois

Zombo said:

They know we're just xxxxing with them. It's mid-June and there's a lockout ... we're getting antsy.

Besides we don't include the English as "Euro Sofites", the Limeys have proven their metal over and over, they are tough SOBs and their soccer league is the best.

Zombo

--that said, soccer is gay.

We do know you're xxxxing with us and it's all good. I've had a good laugh at most the comments on here.

As for everybody hates the Americans !!! That's just not true I mean there are countries around the world that will support and back an America under attack with their last breath as patriotically as Americans themselves. There's England and then there's ........ well England !

The ceo/president that Randy leaves running the club is Paul Faulkner, previous background is that he held some kinda position with mbna.

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

OK, but remember, it was the French that helped us defeat Britain and gain our independence.

Think about it though: I don't believe the US has ever fought a war against the French. We have had wars with most other major European countries: Britain twice. Spain, Italy, Germany twice, Austria/Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, even a cold war with Russia.

Though, apparently there was some kind of "Quasi-War", undeclared between the US and France from 1798-1800 over French Privateers attacking American shipping. Apparently Revolutionary France was angry that the US declared its neutrality in it conflict with Britain.

They were also angry that the US didn't repay its monetary debt to France from the American Revolution. Apparently the US claimed it owed the government of the French Royal Crown that had been deposed, not the new French Revolutionary government. There were really only a few minor skirmishes that occurred in this "war", mainly over French ships attacking merchant vessels and attempting to impress US citizens into its navy. The French would grab these ships, and the US would try to grab them back. The whole "conflict" ended when Napolean came to power and made peace with the US.

So you would choose the French to have your back ?

hoorta

@hoorta said:

Hey Z you don't have to like it- just try to understand it- slow motion hockey.

And after watching some of the clips- I proclaim that baseball is pretty gay too. Must take drugs to up home run count.

Some pu$$y catcher's agent is whining because a guy slid into him too hard? How about Buckner losing the World Series flubbing a ball with a mistake that pee-wee league kids are taught to avoid?

PS I'm all for taking flares and baseball bats to Browns Steelers games.

I can watch baseball no problem, however I cannot understand why it would be used to point out how slow soccer is !!!! Really ? I mean lets throw the ball to first base, then lets fake that we're throwing it to first base...epeat several times then pitch a foul ball, game interrupted while the coach walks into the field and mimicks coaching a 2nd grader by telling him what he's doing wrong, a decent game ? Yes I'm warming to it but faster than soccer ? No

villaqnois

Paul Faulkner's intended role must be the equivalent of the club president. However I guess both Randy and PF have been thrown in at the deep end and have had to get involved in football matters. They have access to "advisors" and hopefully things will work out and Randy will be proven right (He as now gone ahead and appointed McCleish as manager, but he made sure he'd left the country before it was announced).

When RL first took over the club he had a manager in place who ran the football side of things, in fact true to tradition the manager insisted on running the club his way, with an owner/chairman writing the checks or not. Since that manager quit the club the selection methods the club are employing and perhaps lack of contacts within English football that is under fire. I wonder if RL may be looking to create a position at Villa for a Tom Heckert equivalent. The problem that he will encounter is this is the "director of football" position used in european clubs, has been tried in England but met with huge resistance by English managers who see it as interfering with their jobs and fans in turn see it as moving away from the tradition of the English game.

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

Well, the "hooliganism" of English soccer fans is well renowned. I am not sure it is a thing to be proud for some of these guys, even though they may think it is. They may as well wear a sign around their necks saying "I'm a F****ing Idiot". Fair to say?

Fair to say ? yes most certainly. Can you say you've never been to a sporting event where there was a list of candidates present who would qualify for that same sign ? How much provocation from rivals would it take to start a mass fight at say a college game ?

The hooligan era was largely in the late 70's and 80's, while fights between fans were common place between fans, prior to the 70's it was I would imagine, similar to a fight on the ice between players at a hockey game. It would be a "good old scrap" guaranteed of no weapons just punches, I've even witnessed cops get involved in punch ups, with shouts of come on then, no arrests. Fights would run their course and be brief, being not much more than a talking point for the fans.

During the late 70's and 80's it became far more organized. A minority of fans would organize fights with fans of other teams. in city centre's hours before a game, during a game or hours after the game was over. All clubs had an element of these fans and today's equivalents I guess would be fight clubs. Because of close proximity, think of 90 teams within one state, at each game there is usually several thousand supporters of the away side. The away games still are a great time to travel to different cities in large numbers drinking from start to finish and are generally a bachelor weekend every other week. The organizers of the fghts would take advantage of the large number of drunken young males and in pubs before games would start rumours of the other teams fans are on their way. The clashes that followed are well documented.

Since the 80's cops have used cctv placed up to 5 miles around stadiums, computer facial recognition systems, undercover intelligence and early morning swat team raids to break the hooligan element. The rivalry between clubs like Villa and Birmingham are from a far more deep seated hatred of each other. Being only a short distance away from each other travelling to each others ground is not an obstacle, and so there a large numbers of both sets of supporters travelling to an away game. Unlike the lets go the game and have a fight and then go for a beer afterwards, the Villa - B'ham rivalry does not go away in between games, going for a quiet lunchtime drink and venturing into the wrong pub, being recognized as a supporter of the rival team can lead to a very dangerous situation.

WRREBEL

Soccer is gay...