Lessons From History
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I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
I think if they are all busts it's pretty much the same.
No, I think that a bust that costs you 2 first round picks is twice as bad as one that costs you 1 first round pick. Elementary my dear.
I think RG3 is going to be a hit so I think we should do what it takes to get him.
If I were on the ropes about him I would not trade up for him or draft him if he is there at four.
I would demand that you have verified certification from Nostradamus himself that RG is going to be all that before I would want to spend 2 1st round picks on him. And since Nostradamus is dead, I don't think you can deliver on that requirement..
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What you said is true. But THAT browns team has moved to Baltimore. This Browns have no history of success finding a QB. So based on history we should not be drafting a QB
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
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Fuck Off with the "Browns moved to Baltimore" bullshit.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
Not sure why you're arguing this. The browns DID move to Baltimore and became the ravens. We got an expansion team and called them the browns. They ARE two different teams.
I argue it because you are legally, and factually wrong. Do I really have to explain it to YOU now after 17 years?
The Cleveland Browns franchise did not move the distance of one pubic hair. It stayed right here.
A new Ravens franchise was created in Baltimore. IT was the expansion franchise, not the Browns. The contracts of certain employees of the Browns was assigned to the Ravens franchise. In essence, they were traded en masse to the Ravens.
When we traded Brady Quinn to the Broncos did the Cleveland Browns become the Denver Broncos? No. And when we traded Vinny Testaverde et al to the Baltimore Ravens, the Cleveland Browns did not become the Baltimore Ravens.
And you may ask about ownership...didn't Art Modell keep ownership? The answer is no.
First off, Robert Gries and Al Lerner were part owners of the Browns. Those guys never became owners of the Ravens. So ownership was different.
And those are just a couple of the factors into why the Cleveland Browns never "became" the Ravens.
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Definition of Assignment:
a. The transfer of a claim, right, interest, or property from one to another.
The contracts, i.e. the "claim, right or interest" the Browns had in certain players were assigned to the Ravens.
Players in the NFL (and in other leagues) are essentially property which can be sold, transferred or exchanged among franchises. It happens all the time. Usually not in the scale in which the transfer of contracts were made from the Cleveland Browns to the Baltimore Ravens, but it does happen.
Similar example: Robert Irsay, owner of the Rams and Carrol Rosenblum, owner of the Colts traded franchises in the early 1970s. When that happened the Rams didn't become the Colts and the Colts didn't become the Rams, though there was some finagling going back and forth:
http://iqfb.com/league-facts/colts-and-rams-biggest-trade-in-nfl-history/
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The Browns coming back from the dead has been like the sports version of pet cemetery.
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Zombo said:
Quite simply, the Cleveland Browns didn't field a team from 1996-1998, while the Baltimore franchise began operations in 1996.
We fought hard for the team, the history and the colors to stay in Cleveland.
The Browns are the Browns. The Ravens are the Ravens.
Zombo
Yes sir.
Edit to read Ravens are the Ratbirds
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Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
The former Browns players became players for the new Ravens franchise. Why is that so hard to understand?
Wrong again regarding history . The history of the Browns stayed here too. Go look up who's listed as the Ravens all time leading rusher- I'll spare you the time- it's Jamaal Lewis, not Jim Brown. Ditto the leading passer- Joe Flacco, not Otto Graham.
Totally different situation when the Colts moved to Indianapolis- or the Rams moving to St Louis. The franchise, records, and the players ALL moved.
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Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Ok the name and colors didn't move, but the team, all its management and, functionally, all its history and the lessons that foundation learned from that history DID leave. The browns returned to existence with a completely new base from the owner down.
To me, its splitting hairs. The browns became the ravens. Therefore the team did move. The franchise stayed, but the franchise is just name and colors.
Did you see Billy Connolly's Fuck Off video? Watch it. Learn from it.
The management left? Good. Art Modell and his son. That is it. And PR guy Kevin Byrne.
The football brains left too....because they didn't stay with Modell. There was no "base" with Modell in place dipshit.
Were you even around then? Even Ozzie Newsome was hired by Modell only after he had moved to Baltimore.
Trust me, the FOUNDATION of the Cleveland Browns did not move to Baltimore with Modell.
We have to deal with fucking stupid Steeler fans over this issue.....are you a fucking stupid Steeler fan? You are beginning to sound seriously like one.
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Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Those people ended up getting kicked the fuck out of the NFL. Did you forget about that?
That is the "functionality" that you would have had to look forward to.
Modell didn't "learn what he did wrong in the past and correct it". After he got bailed out financially by the 75 mill he got from Baltimore, he went right back into a whirlpool of debt. That is why he was tertiarily removed from the league.
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Everything you're saying is just a technicality. I love the browns old and new. The old te left. Go "new" browns. Why do I have to be a steeler fan to disagree with you? If you think I am please research my posts and furnish one instance where I've ever complemented the steelers on anything. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
The foundation didn't move? And here I thought CLE had to start all over in 1999 as an expension franchise from the ground up.
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Read again, hoorta, I didn't say the history moved I said the functional history, I.e. the movers and the shakers. The people whose jobs were to learn what they did wrong in the past and correct it. The people with experience.
Those people ended up getting kicked the fuck out of the NFL. Did you forget about that?
That is the "functionality" that you would have had to look forward to.
Modell didn't "learn what he did wrong in the past and correct it". After he got bailed out financially by the 75 mill he got from Baltimore, he went right back into a whirlpool of debt. That is why he was tertiarily removed from the league.
Those people ended up getting kicked the fuck out of the NFL. Did you forget about that?
That is the "functionality" that you would have had to look forward to.
Modell didn't "learn what he did wrong in the past and correct it". After he got bailed out financially by the 75 mill he got from Baltimore, he went right back into a whirlpool of debt. That is why he was tertiarily removed from the league.
His team has since won the superbowl and has multiple playoff appearances. Not bad for an expansion team with no foundation or functionality.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
LOL - I don't even see how this is an argument.
The Browns moved to Baltimore changed their colors,logo,name and became the Ravens.
Cleveland filed a lawsuit against the Browns to keep the history,colors,name etc.
The Ravens are not an expansion team if they were they'd of gotten the number one pick in 1996, like the expansion Browns did in 1999.
They would not have carried over rosters,coaching staff,management.
The new Browns are an expansion team that inherited the cities former teams identity, albeit under unique circumstances.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer -
Everything you're saying is just a technicality. I love the browns old and new. The old te left. Go "new" browns. Why do I have to be a steeler fan to disagree with you? If you think I am please research my posts and furnish one instance where I've ever complemented the steelers on anything. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass.
Everything you're saying is just a technicality. I love the browns old and new. The old te left. Go "new" browns. Why do I have to be a steeler fan to disagree with you? If you think I am please research my posts and furnish one instance where I've ever complemented the steelers on anything. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass.
Because it it usually only Steeler fans....and Ghoolie who come up with that "the real Browns are in Baltimore" BS. If you are to mimic their crapola, why not be lumped in with them?
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Those people ended up getting kicked the fuck out of the NFL. Did you forget about that?
That is the "functionality" that you would have had to look forward to.
Modell didn't "learn what he did wrong in the past and correct it". After he got bailed out financially by the 75 mill he got from Baltimore, he went right back into a whirlpool of debt. That is why he was tertiarily removed from the league.
His team has since won the superbowl and has multiple playoff appearances. Not bad for an expansion team with no foundation or functionality.
His team has since won the superbowl and has multiple playoff appearances. Not bad for an expansion team with no foundation or functionality.
See how little you know about the situation? It wasn't his team, it was Biscotti's team.
When the Ravens won the SB the league had already ejected him from the league and allowed him only the courtesy of finding a new owner. In came Biscotti. The deal for the sale had been made, the money had been paid, Biscotti was running things, and Modell was merely allowed to be a caretaker for a couple of years.
The foundation and functionality for that winning team was brought in by Biscotti.
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LOL - I don't even see how this is an argument.
The Browns moved to Baltimore changed their colors,logo,name and became the Ravens.
Cleveland filed a lawsuit against the Browns to keep the history,colors,name etc.
The Ravens are not an expansion team if they were they'd of gotten the number one pick in 1996, like the expansion Browns did in 1999.
They would not have carried over rosters,coaching staff,management.
The new Browns are an expansion team that inherited the cities former teams identity, albeit under unique circumstances.
LOL - I don't even see how this is an argument.
The Browns moved to Baltimore changed their colors,logo,name and became the Ravens.
Cleveland filed a lawsuit against the Browns to keep the history,colors,name etc.
The Ravens are not an expansion team if they were they'd of gotten the number one pick in 1996, like the expansion Browns did in 1999.
They would not have carried over rosters,coaching staff,management.
The new Browns are an expansion team that inherited the cities former teams identity, albeit under unique circumstances.
Clearly, you are as dumb a fuck as the Cysco Kid. Are you Pancho?
How much money are you willing to wager that the NFL, the Cleveland Browns, the City of Cleveland, the Baltimore Ravens, the City of Baltimore, the states of Ohio and Maryland agree with me on this matter and not with you?
Again, assets were assigned to the new expansion franchise, just like transferring property.
If I sell you my car and my couch and my candelabra that doesn't also mean that I have also transferred the deed to my house to you.
The Browns transferred some pots and pans to the Baltimore Ravens (players), and maybe that candelabra (some front office personell), and a car (their draft picks). They did not sell the house. Through a third party intermediary, the Browns received a new car (different draft choices) with which we bought a new Couch (literally) to fit in the living room.
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Sure legally the Ravens are considered an expansion team. (wink wink)
This is like trying to argue with a woman.
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And the current Browns are to some extent considered an expansion team (I mean they did get an expansion draft).
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