Psl's No Longer Required At Stadium
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If my PSL's have zero value, thhe Browns will be hearing from my lawyer
I'm sure they are terrified.
I'm sure they are terrified.
They will be when 20,000 people file a law suit against them
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I just talked to my Ticket rep. and the conversation went as follows:
ME: What's going on with new season ticket buyers NOT having to buy PSL's?
Ticket rep: you will not have to purchase PSL's with 2013 season tickets
ME: I already have season tickets, but now the PSL's I HAD to buy in 1999 are worthless?
Ticket rep: No, they will end up being worth more, we are just not selling them any more, so we are cutting them off, your psls will actually go up in value because we will not be selling any more and you will need PSL seats in order to have the best locations
ME: so if someone who has tickets next to me stops buying them, those seats will not need psl's to be bought by someone else?
Ticket rep: if they were PSL's, someone with a PSL will move to them, through our relocation process. What section do you sit in?
ME: 149
Ticket rep: oh yea, nobody without a PSL will be in the lower level. The lower level has been sold out of PSLs since 1999. The value in your PSL's will go up for sure
ME: what if no one moves to the seats next to me? will they be sold without psl's then?
Ticket rep: yes, but that will not happen
ME: How is my PSL's going to be worth more? I won't be able to sell them to anyone, when they can just buy season tickets without a PSL. Or if someone moves to my seats, they won't have to pay me for the PSL either?
Ticket rep: They will not be able to buy tickets in the lower level
Ticket rep: so anyone who wants to sit in the lower level will have to buy a PSL from our current PSL holders
Then he ended the chat session.
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If my PSL's have zero value, thhe Browns will be hearing from my lawyer
I'm sure they are terrified.
I'm sure they are terrified.
I agree, the psl agreement clearly states they hold no inherent value.
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Do you not get what he's saying or what? That seems pretty straight forward to me and it makes perfect sense. People with PSL's are going to be in the lower levels, and the last thing you said was right. The lower level PSL's have been sold out for years and years and another PSL owner gets first crack at them which you know someone will take if another guy stops buying.
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That is kind of how my conversation went.
I paid my seats in full this morning, but if I can't get the seats I want by paying them another $1000 so some dude off the street can get them before me, the Browns can suck my dick.
Check that, I wouldn't allow them the pleasure of sucking my dick.
If this happens, when I get my tickets I just paid $1404 for, I'll rip them up and never spend another dime in the state Ohio the rest of my life. Screw it. I've lost way more than $1400 in a single shot in my life.
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The problem is that if I want to sell my PSL's no one is going to buy them. Why would someone pay me the $1000 per seat for the PSL's and then buy tickets, when they can just buy the tickets in another section?
Also, if I give up the tickets and another PSL owner gets them, that person doesn't have to pay for the new PSL.
So basically, they are worthless pieces of paper now. Even though they were worth $2000 yesterday
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The problem is that if I want to sell my PSL's no one is going to buy them. Why would someone pay me the $1000 per seat for the PSL's and then buy tickets, when they can just buy the tickets in another section?
Also, if I give up the tickets and another PSL owner gets them, that person doesn't have to pay for the new PSL.
So basically, they are worthless pieces of paper now. Even though they were worth $2000 yesterday
The problem is that if I want to sell my PSL's no one is going to buy them. Why would someone pay me the $1000 per seat for the PSL's and then buy tickets, when they can just buy the tickets in another section?
Also, if I give up the tickets and another PSL owner gets them, that person doesn't have to pay for the new PSL.
So basically, they are worthless pieces of paper now. Even though they were worth $2000 yesterday
What aren't you understanding? The entire 100 level is SOLD OUT via PSLs. If you drop your seats- it's a virtual certainty they're going to go to another PSL holder, who incidentally DID pay for a seat license.
Let me give you a couple practical examples. You're in 149, corner end zone. I'm in 111, 20 yard line sideline. If I ever dropped my seats (of course I never will) think there wouldn't be a stampede from your section to get seat improvement? BTW, we've put in for seat improvement for years, we were only asking for one section over, and 10 rows higher. Trust me, unless you're willing to shell out $10,000 a seat on Craiglist or eBay- in between the 25 yard lines lower deck ain't happening. Those seats literally get handed down in wills.
If you ever dropped your seats- believe me, there's plenty of folks who own PSL nosebleeds who would be more than happy to move down. Now if you want to grouse that they didn't get upcharged for the move, you have a point.
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The problem is that if I want to sell my PSL's no one is going to buy them. Why would someone pay me the $1000 per seat for the PSL's and then buy tickets, when they can just buy the tickets in another section?
Also, if I give up the tickets and another PSL owner gets them, that person doesn't have to pay for the new PSL.
So basically, they are worthless pieces of paper now. Even though they were worth $2000 yesterday
What aren't you understanding? The entire 100 level is SOLD OUT via PSLs. If you drop your seats- it's a virtual certainty they're going to go to another PSL holder, who incidentally DID pay for a seat license.
Let me give you a couple practical examples. You're in 149, corner end zone. I'm in 111, 20 yard line sideline. If I ever dropped my seats (of course I never will) think there wouldn't be a stampede from your section to get seat improvement? BTW, we've put in for seat improvement for years, we were only asking for one section over, and 10 rows higher. Trust me, unless you're willing to shell out $10,000 a seat on Craiglist or eBay- in between the 25 yard lines lower deck ain't happening. Those seats literally get handed down in wills.
If you ever dropped your seats- believe me, there's plenty of folks who own PSL nosebleeds who would be more than happy to move down. Now if you want to grouse that they didn't get upcharged for the move, you have a point.
What aren't you understanding? The entire 100 level is SOLD OUT via PSLs. If you drop your seats- it's a virtual certainty they're going to go to another PSL holder, who incidentally DID pay for a seat license.
Let me give you a couple practical examples. You're in 149, corner end zone. I'm in 111, 20 yard line sideline. If I ever dropped my seats (of course I never will) think there wouldn't be a stampede from your section to get seat improvement? BTW, we've put in for seat improvement for years, we were only asking for one section over, and 10 rows higher. Trust me, unless you're willing to shell out $10,000 a seat on Craiglist or eBay- in between the 25 yard lines lower deck ain't happening. Those seats literally get handed down in wills.
If you ever dropped your seats- believe me, there's plenty of folks who own PSL nosebleeds who would be more than happy to move down. Now if you want to grouse that they didn't get upcharged for the move, you have a point.
That's part of my point. If the new owner of my seats doesn't have to pay more for a better psl then it's wrong. Also there is no guarentee that if someone moves from my section that those seats will be bought by a current psl owner. The sales rep told me so. The Browns should stipulate that if you are a new season ticket buyer and somehow seats become available in a PSL location, the new buyer has to buy the current PSL. AT this point, the new buyer does NOT have to buy the PSL It is TOTALLY unfair for me a PSL owner to sit next to someone who DIDN'T have to buy the PSL.
Seats have come open in my section every year. I get calls from the Browns asking, all the time, to buy them. Now, if I take them up on this offer, will I have to buy the PSL for those seats? I thought about buying 2 more seats in my section last year, and I would've had to buy the PSL for those seats, now I don't? If not then it's not fair to others in the same section to have to sit next to me if I didn't have to buy a PSL for those seats, like they did. And like I did back in 1999.
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The problem is that if I want to sell my PSL's no one is going to buy them. Why would someone pay me the $1000 per seat for the PSL's and then buy tickets, when they can just buy the tickets in another section?
Also, if I give up the tickets and another PSL owner gets them, that person doesn't have to pay for the new PSL.
So basically, they are worthless pieces of paper now. Even though they were worth $2000 yesterday
What aren't you understanding? The entire 100 level is SOLD OUT via PSLs. If you drop your seats- it's a virtual certainty they're going to go to another PSL holder, who incidentally DID pay for a seat license.
Let me give you a couple practical examples. You're in 149, corner end zone. I'm in 111, 20 yard line sideline. If I ever dropped my seats (of course I never will) think there wouldn't be a stampede from your section to get seat improvement? BTW, we've put in for seat improvement for years, we were only asking for one section over, and 10 rows higher. Trust me, unless you're willing to shell out $10,000 a seat on Craiglist or eBay- in between the 25 yard lines lower deck ain't happening. Those seats literally get handed down in wills.
If you ever dropped your seats- believe me, there's plenty of folks who own PSL nosebleeds who would be more than happy to move down. Now if you want to grouse that they didn't get upcharged for the move, you have a point.
What aren't you understanding? The entire 100 level is SOLD OUT via PSLs. If you drop your seats- it's a virtual certainty they're going to go to another PSL holder, who incidentally DID pay for a seat license.
Let me give you a couple practical examples. You're in 149, corner end zone. I'm in 111, 20 yard line sideline. If I ever dropped my seats (of course I never will) think there wouldn't be a stampede from your section to get seat improvement? BTW, we've put in for seat improvement for years, we were only asking for one section over, and 10 rows higher. Trust me, unless you're willing to shell out $10,000 a seat on Craiglist or eBay- in between the 25 yard lines lower deck ain't happening. Those seats literally get handed down in wills.
If you ever dropped your seats- believe me, there's plenty of folks who own PSL nosebleeds who would be more than happy to move down. Now if you want to grouse that they didn't get upcharged for the move, you have a point.
Larry, what aren't you understanding? PSL's have been sold all over the stadium. In many of those situations you aren't going to have other PSL owners swooping in.....why should I buy your PSLs when I can sit for free (no PSL) a few rows higher or a section over? There is more to the stadium than section 100 if you didn't know that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Look I said before, but for those with psl's not in the bottom levels you're right. Unfortunately that's just life sometimes. I mean think about people like my brother who bought homes in 2007. He paid peak market price at almost 250k. Now the EXACT same house in the same neighborhood is around 150-170k. Of course it sucks but does that mean the realtors should try and sell at a price no one will buy?
That same brother just bought psl's for the panthers. They told him at the beginning this is a sunk cost and has no value. It's a risk everyone ran when you bought tickets.
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As I understand it, the PSLs were sold initially to help with the owners cost to construct the Stadium.
I personally never did nor ever would pay for a PSL....but that is because I have only gone to a few games live over the years. I learned early on that the best seat in the house was the one in my house, not Al and Randy Lerners house.
Nevertheless I sympathize with all of you who laid out these bucks. I don't know how many PSL owners there are, but in my view all of you who did buy them should have an exclusive place in the stadium that are the best seats and that only you can sit in. You should all be granted an upgrade to club seat level or something for only the extra cost of the tickets.
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What aren't you understanding? The entire 100 level is SOLD OUT via PSLs. If you drop your seats- it's a virtual certainty they're going to go to another PSL holder, who incidentally DID pay for a seat license.
Let me give you a couple practical examples. You're in 149, corner end zone. I'm in 111, 20 yard line sideline. If I ever dropped my seats (of course I never will) think there wouldn't be a stampede from your section to get seat improvement? BTW, we've put in for seat improvement for years, we were only asking for one section over, and 10 rows higher. Trust me, unless you're willing to shell out $10,000 a seat on Craiglist or eBay- in between the 25 yard lines lower deck ain't happening. Those seats literally get handed down in wills.
If you ever dropped your seats- believe me, there's plenty of folks who own PSL nosebleeds who would be more than happy to move down. Now if you want to grouse that they didn't get upcharged for the move, you have a point.
Larry, what aren't you understanding? PSL's have been sold all over the stadium. In many of those situations you aren't going to have other PSL owners swooping in.....why should I buy your PSLs when I can sit for free (no PSL) a few rows higher or a section over? There is more to the stadium than section 100 if you didn't know that.
Larry, what aren't you understanding? PSL's have been sold all over the stadium. In many of those situations you aren't going to have other PSL owners swooping in.....why should I buy your PSLs when I can sit for free (no PSL) a few rows higher or a section over? There is more to the stadium than section 100 if you didn't know that.
Of course I know that 'Peen. I sat in the Upper Level for a few years, and I can certainly understand why there isn't a big demand for those seats, and yes, it is unfair to us guys who initially bought in. I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
As I understand it, the PSLs were sold initially to help with the owners cost to construct the Stadium.
I personally never did nor ever would pay for a PSL....but that is because I have only gone to a few games live over the years. I learned early on that the best seat in the house was the one in my house, not Al and Randy Lerners house.
Nevertheless I sympathize with all of you who laid out these bucks. I don't know how many PSL owners there are, but in my view all of you who did buy them should have an exclusive place in the stadium that are the best seats and that only you can sit in. You should all be granted an upgrade to club seat level or something for only the extra cost of the tickets.
What I got out of buying in initially is my name is up there on the wall- along with all the other guys who bought in on the first offering.
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Well I'm in one of the lower levels, but I still don't think it's right for the rest of the PSL owners who aren't. Are the Browns going to notify every PSL owner of seats that open up on the lower level? How are they going to determine who gets those seats?
If it's being discussed on all of the boards, ther must be alot of people that don't like the decision. That's the last thing new management should want to do......piss off the people who have supported their lowsy product for so many years. Maybe Kevin Costner can talk them out of it.
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Larry, what aren't you understanding? PSL's have been sold all over the stadium. In many of those situations you aren't going to have other PSL owners swooping in.....why should I buy your PSLs when I can sit for free (no PSL) a few rows higher or a section over? There is more to the stadium than section 100 if you didn't know that.
Of course I know that 'Peen. I sat in the Upper Level for a few years, and I can certainly understand why there isn't a big demand for those seats, and yes, it is unfair to us guys who initially bought in. I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
As I understand it, the PSLs were sold initially to help with the owners cost to construct the Stadium.
I personally never did nor ever would pay for a PSL....but that is because I have only gone to a few games live over the years. I learned early on that the best seat in the house was the one in my house, not Al and Randy Lerners house.
Nevertheless I sympathize with all of you who laid out these bucks. I don't know how many PSL owners there are, but in my view all of you who did buy them should have an exclusive place in the stadium that are the best seats and that only you can sit in. You should all be granted an upgrade to club seat level or something for only the extra cost of the tickets.
What I got out of buying in initially is my name is up there on the wall- along with all the other guys who bought in on the first offering.
I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
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I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
I couldn't agree with you more and frankly can't understand why some others don't get it just because they sit in the lower level.
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i bought 12 seats in 1999, 4 clubs and 8 in my current section. They were discounted because i was a long time season ticketholder before the move, but you can imagine that it was still a lot of cash. Like most, i was hoping the team would be a great success and i would be able to recover my cost some day (or better).
Reality set in about 5 years ago when i decided to unload my clubs. i contacted many well-known and lesser-known businesses looking for a buyer. Nobody wanted them. After several months of effort, i ended up turning them back over to the team- PSL lost.
i'm down to 6 seats and haven't recovered a dime. The reality is that if there are no buyers, then your PSL isn't worth jack shit. Period. That's the way it is. My net worth in my seats was $0 before the announcement, and remains $0 after the announcement. i am unaffected.
If anyone is looking for a silver lining, here it is. When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them. That is my contractual right, and the Browns have not taken that away. So i've got that to look forward to......
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When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
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When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
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When the Browns become a consistent NFL powerhouse and people are falling all over themselves to buy tickets, i'll still be allowed to sell my PSLs at whatever price i'm able to get for them.
By then all the people around you will have bought their season tickets WITHOUT PSL's
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
Dude, I'm sorry for you that you haven't caught on to the concept of sarcasm. I even tried to help you out with the wink.
That aside, I stand by my comment that my PSLs were worth nothing before this announcement, so this means nothing to me. The bottom line is that the Browns and I entered into a signed contract. Neither of us have violated any parts of that contract. They provided no guarantees, and I knew that when I signed on. So did you (unless you didn't read it).
so be happy when someone NEW gets tickets in your section, and they DON'T have to pay the PSL price you had to pay for THE SAME TICKETS.
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I definitely feel bad for nephew Dan, who just bought in last year for upper level end zone- if he had waited until this year, he could have had the same seats without buying a PSL. If there's ever a case for "I want my money back" that has to be it.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
No doubt. Make no mistake. I knew all along the PSL's weren't worth a whole heck of a lot. I factored that in when I bought them. I figured if I got 10 years out of them, I was good, and I really feel that way. I don't have to have or count on getting the $3000 back, or even some portion. That is spent money. Anything I get back is simply bonus money....maybe all on Green in Vegas. (That could up the wine selection at a dinner or two)
It's more about guys like Dan who had to pay last year, or 2-3 years ago. My worry is I am afraid someone who has a few bucks has already snatched up seats I was wanting to have. Someone who didn't spend a damn dime to support the team a week ago, but today gets to slide in front of me because he/she can walk up to the window so to speak and secure the tickets, and I have to go through a process of seat relocation. That pisses me off.
Those of you who know me know I don't cuss much and type it less, but this has me aggravated. I'll wait for the process to unfold before my final feelings are expressed.
Well said Ballpeen
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