Minicamp Reports, 5-23
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Skeptical2013 said:
Yes, an "effective" management approach -- let's throw a lot of things at a wall and see if anything sticks.
Tannahill is a guy I'm keeping an eye on -- first team all Big 12. At least he made his conference's all first team -- the Brown's first draft pick wasn't even first team all SEC last season.
You are the one who is impressed merely by numbers. You have acted like Dudley from the Harry Potter movie and gone postal because you only got 36 birthday presents and not 37 when it came to draft choices.
The Browns collected baubles and baubles at the TE spot. That should make you happy since collecting baubles is what you seem all about.
You are the one who is impressed merely by numbers. You have acted like Dudley from the Harry Potter movie and gone postal because you only got 36 birthday presents and not 37 when it came to draft choices.
The Browns collected baubles and baubles at the TE spot. That should make you happy since collecting baubles is what you seem all about.
The Browns have one of the weakest groups of tight ends of any team in pro football. The inability to go out and get a good, proven pass receving tight end in free agency -- to add to Weeden's arsenal of weapons and help the kid be successful -- is unconscionable. They did add Bess and Nelson to help, and like both moves, but they also should have gotten a TE.
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Most tight ends aren't really TEs, but really big, physical WRs who can run and create mismatches. Ain't like New England asks Gronk or Hernandez to block much.
So when you have WRs the size of any of these guys, you can create the same situation by putting two big guys in the slot... say, Nelson and Little but there are other combos... and Gordon and Benjamin on the outside.
Gordon is 6'5 220. Nelson is 6'6 220. Little is 6'3 220.
I think we're more than big enough at the WR position. Even Seattle can't match that - height yes but size no.
Our 5WR formation may not have a TE.. Bess and Benjamin both have better hands than Cameron.
Most tight ends aren't really TEs, but really big, physical WRs who can run and create mismatches. Ain't like New England asks Gronk or Hernandez to block much.
So when you have WRs the size of any of these guys, you can create the same situation by putting two big guys in the slot... say, Nelson and Little but there are other combos... and Gordon and Benjamin on the outside.
Browns plan to use Nelson in some tight end formatins and that's a really smart move.
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Skeptical2013 said:
I love Turner's approach to moving the TE's all over the place, but it's a shame he doesn't have better talent. When the Browns put Bandridge and Davis out as receivers, I think DBs and safeties will simply break out with laughter.
Well, maybe that's a good thing.
I think you'll see very little of those two guys as receivers unless Barnidge is the breakout surprise of camp. I heard he looks good in shorts (DOH!). But seriously, that he can run and catch.
With Little, Gordon, Bess, Benjamin, Cameron, and Nelson, I think we have a lot of guys who shouldn't cause guffaws. Davis will mostly block.
Well, maybe that's a good thing.
I think you'll see very little of those two guys as receivers unless Barnidge is the breakout surprise of camp. I heard he looks good in shorts (DOH!). But seriously, that he can run and catch.
With Little, Gordon, Bess, Benjamin, Cameron, and Nelson, I think we have a lot of guys who shouldn't cause guffaws. Davis will mostly block.
The Browns' receiving corps is NFL average. Little and Gordon still have problems running routes, Benjamin and Cameron didn't show a lot as receivers last year, and Nelson is coming off a bad injury. I do think Little and Gordon can get better, but I am prediciting that Little's dropsy problem will resurface this season.
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Most tight ends aren't really TEs, but really big, physical WRs who can run and create mismatches. Ain't like New England asks Gronk or Hernandez to block much.
So when you have WRs the size of any of these guys, you can create the same situation by putting two big guys in the slot... say, Nelson and Little but there are other combos... and Gordon and Benjamin on the outside.
Browns plan to use Nelson in some tight end formatins and that's a really smart move.
Skeptical2013 said:
Browns plan to use Nelson in some tight end formatins and that's a really smart move.
Right, so quicher bitchin', bitch.
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Well, maybe that's a good thing.
I think you'll see very little of those two guys as receivers unless Barnidge is the breakout surprise of camp. I heard he looks good in shorts (DOH!). But seriously, that he can run and catch.
With Little, Gordon, Bess, Benjamin, Cameron, and Nelson, I think we have a lot of guys who shouldn't cause guffaws. Davis will mostly block.
The Browns' receiving corps is NFL average. Little and Gordon still have problems running routes, Benjamin and Cameron didn't show a lot as receivers last year, and Nelson is coming off a bad injury. I do think Little and Gordon can get better, but I am prediciting that Little's dropsy problem will resurface this season.
Skeptical2013 said:
The Browns' receiving corps is NFL average. Little and Gordon still have problems running routes, Benjamin and Cameron didn't show a lot as receivers last year, and Nelson is coming off a bad injury. I do think Little and Gordon can get better, but I am prediciting that Little's dropsy problem will resurface this season.
Yea, I am sure your Madden 2013 tells you everything you know about it.
You know, if we all ranked the patrons/posters on this board like we do football players, you would be an Undrafted FA on the verge of being cut.
One Trick Ponies don't make it in this league.
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Why would Little's "dropsy problem? reemerge? Why would you predict that coming off a back half of 2013 with 42 catches and only 2 drops? Did you know Mayock said Greg Little had the best hands of the top WR prospects in that draft?
Seems like the dropsy problem was the anomaly, not the catchy problem.
And if you aren't excited about Gordon and Little... well, it's because you just don't wanna be excited about anything.
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that's why you don't pick one at 3.
If the Browns knew what they know now about Richardson, I wonder what would have happened in the first round?
So many good RBs have been taken in later rounds, it makes you re-think the process. TRich is an outstanding talent. It's a shame he and Hardesty haven't been able to show fans the "wow factor" they displayed for SEC fans.
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Why would Little's "dropsy problem? reemerge? Why would you predict that coming off a back half of 2013 with 42 catches and only 2 drops? Did you know Mayock said Greg Little had the best hands of the top WR prospects in that draft?
Seems like the dropsy problem was the anomaly, not the catchy problem.
And if you aren't excited about Gordon and Little... well, it's because you just don't wanna be excited about anything.
Why would Little's "dropsy problem? reemerge? Why would you predict that coming off a back half of 2013 with 42 catches and only 2 drops? Did you know Mayock said Greg Little had the best hands of the top WR prospects in that draft?
Seems like the dropsy problem was the anomaly, not the catchy problem.
And if you aren't excited about Gordon and Little... well, it's because you just don't wanna be excited about anything.
That really isn't true. I just like to be objective. And Gordon and Little have a lot of work to do to get to the near elite level, although it's not impossible for them to get there. Right now I consider them struggling to reach the average level in relation to starting WR tandems around the league. Hopefully then can get there this season and maybe go a little above average.
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Why would Little's "dropsy problem? reemerge? Why would you predict that coming off a back half of 2013 with 42 catches and only 2 drops? Did you know Mayock said Greg Little had the best hands of the top WR prospects in that draft?
Seems like the dropsy problem was the anomaly, not the catchy problem.
And if you aren't excited about Gordon and Little... well, it's because you just don't wanna be excited about anything.
That really isn't true. I just like to be objective. And Gordon and Little have a lot of work to do to get to the near elite level, although it's not impossible for them to get there. Right now I consider them struggling to reach the average level in relation to starting WR tandems around the league. Hopefully then can get there this season and maybe go a little above average.
Skeptical2013 said:
That really isn't true. I just like to be objective. And Gordon and Little have a lot of work to do to get to the near elite level, although it's not impossible for them to get there. Right now I consider them struggling to reach the average level in relation to starting WR tandems around the league. Hopefully then can get there this season and maybe go a little above average.
Well, then, why don't you go ahead and give us your ranking of what teams indeed have the Top 10 or 12 WR tandems in the league.
Since you claim to have studied this stuff, lets hear it.
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Skeptical2013 said:
That really isn't true. I just like to be objective. And Gordon and Little have a lot of work to do to get to the near elite level, although it's not impossible for them to get there. Right now I consider them struggling to reach the average level in relation to starting WR tandems around the league. Hopefully then can get there this season and maybe go a little above average.
Well, then, why don't you go ahead and give us your ranking of what teams indeed have the Top 10 or 12 WR tandems in the league.
Since you claim to have studied this stuff, lets hear it.
Well, then, why don't you go ahead and give us your ranking of what teams indeed have the Top 10 or 12 WR tandems in the league.
Since you claim to have studied this stuff, lets hear it.
In my assessment, 19 teams have a better 1-2 receiver tandem than the Browns. They are:
Dallas, NYG, KC, St. L, Wash., chicago, Miami, Balt., Philly, G.B., Ariz., Denver, Minn., SF, Atl., Hou, Indy, N.O., T.B. Fans of other teams like Seattle, New England, Pitts. might debate their wideouts are better. Browns fans will argue about a few of the other teams on my list ahead of the Browns.
If Gordon-Little can get up to 13th-14th place by the end of the season, that would be a nice jump for them and would indicate improvement for them and for the team on offense. That's not impossible to expect. Little was a holy terror the one year he played WR at N. Carolina. Gordon and Little just need to play more. Unlike another poster on this board, though, I don't think Little has great hands.
I do expect Brandon Weeden to take a positive step forward in development in 2013. The bad news, though, he's already around 30 and still developing. Browns will draft a QB in the first or second round next year -- take it to the bank.
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Skeptical2013 said:
That really isn't true. I just like to be objective. And Gordon and Little have a lot of work to do to get to the near elite level, although it's not impossible for them to get there. Right now I consider them struggling to reach the average level in relation to starting WR tandems around the league. Hopefully then can get there this season and maybe go a little above average.
Well, then, why don't you go ahead and give us your ranking of what teams indeed have the Top 10 or 12 WR tandems in the league.
Since you claim to have studied this stuff, lets hear it.
Well, then, why don't you go ahead and give us your ranking of what teams indeed have the Top 10 or 12 WR tandems in the league.
Since you claim to have studied this stuff, lets hear it.
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going DeepHow the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years:
Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
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Well, then, why don't you go ahead and give us your ranking of what teams indeed have the Top 10 or 12 WR tandems in the league.
Since you claim to have studied this stuff, lets hear it.
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going DeepHow the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years:
Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
Skeptical2013 said:
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going Deep
How the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years:
Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5
According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
I don't care about that shit. What I want to know is which team's Wide Receiving Corps YOU rank as the best for the upcoming 2013 season.
Can you understand the question?
Is it that difficult for you to do?
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Well, then, why don't you go ahead and give us your ranking of what teams indeed have the Top 10 or 12 WR tandems in the league.
Since you claim to have studied this stuff, lets hear it.
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going DeepHow the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years:
Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
Skeptical2013 said:
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going Deep
How the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years: Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5
According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
Do you think the system they ran last year might have something to do with that? I swear dude, every single post I've read of yours bitches about one thing or another. Now I know as Browns fans we are miserable a lot, but you seriously take it to the next level. Do you even enjoy being a browns fan??
To the mods, IMHO this guys the next candidate for a name change. Please punch me hard in the face.....would be my suggestion. TY
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Skeptical2013 said:
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going Deep
How the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years: Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5
According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
Do you think the system they ran last year might have something to do with that? I swear dude, every single post I've read of yours bitches about one thing or another. Now I know as Browns fans we are miserable a lot, but you seriously take it to the next level. Do you even enjoy being a browns fan??
To the mods, IMHO this guys the next candidate for a name change. Please punch me hard in the face.....would be my suggestion. TY
Do you think the system they ran last year might have something to do with that? I swear dude, every single post I've read of yours bitches about one thing or another. Now I know as Browns fans we are miserable a lot, but you seriously take it to the next level. Do you even enjoy being a browns fan??
To the mods, IMHO this guys the next candidate for a name change. Please punch me hard in the face.....would be my suggestion. TY
Yes, the system was a contributing factor, But I think a lot of factors contributed to the pathetic downfield performance by the receivers, and that includes the play of the receivers themselves!
Obviously Weeden had some problems, but the offensive line blocking was good. Browns receivers, like Gordon and Little, deserve some of the criticism, too, for the team's poor record vs. other teams in downfield receptions. That includes dropped passes and poor route running. Most OBJECTIVE people in football have observed that Gordon and Little are not great route runners, and that has inhibited their performance. Maybe they'll be better this year at route running. Let's hope so.
Bad route running doesn't seem to a problem for the top receivers on other AFC North foes!
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Oh, man... I love Gordon and Little going into 2013. I feel like the ceiling is SO high. Not many teams field a pair of receivers that big and strong and fast. Little does a 41" vertical, Gordon runs like a gazelle. Could be terrorizing defenses for a long time.
Oh, man... I love Gordon and Little going into 2013. I feel like the ceiling is SO high. Not many teams field a pair of receivers that big and strong and fast. Little does a 41" vertical, Gordon runs like a gazelle. Could be terrorizing defenses for a long time.
Interesting item here picks Gordon as the number one Fantasy Sleeper player for 2013.
http://voices.yahoo.com/fantasy-football-sleepers-2013-top-10-nfl-underrated-11952446.html
Despie all the enthusiasm here, Gordon and Little still have a lot to prove that they are one of the better receiving tandems in the NFL. It could happen this year, but then again maybe not.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Interesting stats about the Browns passing game last season and how the WRs fit in all of this.
Going Deep
How the Browns have ranked in yards per pass attempt over the past five years:
Season Rank YPA 2008 32nd 5.2 2009 32nd 5.1 2010 21st 6.7 2011 31st 5.8 2012 27th 6.5
According to ESPN Stats & Information, the Browns threw the ball 10 yards or less downfield on 73.3 percent of their passes last season and threw the ball 20 or more yards downfield on 9 percent of their passes. As a result, Cleveland wide receivers finished 26th with 32 receptions of at least 15 yards last season, and 25th in receptions of at least 30 yards (eight).
I don't care about that shit. What I want to know is which team's Wide Receiving Corps YOU rank as the best for the upcoming 2013 season.
Can you understand the question?
Is it that difficult for you to do?
I don't care about that shit. What I want to know is which team's Wide Receiving Corps YOU rank as the best for the upcoming 2013 season.
Can you understand the question?
Is it that difficult for you to do?
You're not a very nice person, are you? Yesterday I listed 19 teams with wide receiving tandems better than Gordon/Little going in to this season, even though I am hoping for improvement from Gordon/Little this year and hope they move up the list. They offer promise, but you still have to do it on the field of play.
For my money, the best 1-2 receiving punch is in Atlanta. Probably Denver second with Miami and Chicago behind them and then a second tier of good ones in Green Bay, Cincy, Indy and NY Giants. In the AFC North, I'd rate the 1-2 receiving tandems as follows: Cincy, Balt., Cleveland, Pitts.
If Ashon jeffrey of Chicago can stay healthy, he's going to be a terrific NFL receiver. He was fabulous in the SEC. His one drawback is he lacks top line speed, but he knows how to get open better than Gordon does, at least at this point.
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Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago -
Dallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long agoDallas Agree Austin/Bryant are both good
NYG Agree Nicks/Cruz are both good
KC No Bowe is decent; their #2 is Donnie Avery who sucks
St. L No They start rookies
Wash Maybe Garcon and Moss aren't better than Little or Gordon at anything. This isn't about the QB.
chicago No B Marshall is great; Jeffrey might make the Browns roster, maybe. He had 24 catches.
Miami No Wallace is good; Hartline might make the Browns roster, maybe
Balt No Smith is good; Jones is not as good as either Little or Gordon.
Philly No Maclin is good; Riley Cooper has 46 catches over 3 years
G.B. Agree Cobb and Nelson are both good
Ariz. Agree Fitzgerald and Floyd are both good
Denver Agree
Minn. No Jerome Simpson and Jarius Wright are behind Jennings
SF No Lobsterbush is out for 2013 - ACL
Atl. Agree
Hou No Johnson is always injured. Maybe Hopkins is a #2 - maybe
Indy Agree If you include the TE's
N.O. Agree Colston and Moore are decent
T.B. No Vjax is good - M Williams was good long ago
Chicago: Jeffrey was hurt a lot last year -- he'll break out if healthy. I'd start Jeffrey over Little. All I can tell you is that Jeffrey was a man among boys in the SEC and all that despite the fact he had a bad QB throwing to him.
KC: Bowe is better than any Browns receiver
Balt: NFL players voted Jones the #83 best player in the NFL, they think so much of him
Philly: There's a guy named Jackson who plays WR there
Miami: Hartline is an outstanding receiver.
St L: Tavon Austin is going to be the talk of the NFL in 2013
SF: I included Crabtree there, but you may be right, still to be determined.
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