A.f.c.n. Roster Analysis, Offense

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

Training camp is about to open, so I thought it would be a good time to do an AFCN roster analysis. Start here with the Offenses. Rank the talent at each position 1-4

Quarterbacks:

Cin: Andy Dalton

Balt. Joe Flacco

Cle. Brandon Weeden

Pit. Ben Roethlisberger

my rank: 1. Flacco, 2. BR 3. Dalton 4. Weeden Have to go by the record.

Running Backs:

Cin: Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

Balt: Ray Rice

Cle: Trent Richardson

Pit. Leveon Bell

My rank: 1. Rice 2. TR 3. Green-Ellis 4. Bell Veteran Rice still gets the preseason nod, though that could change mid year.

Fullbacks:

Cin: Chris Pressley

Balt. Kyle Juszczyk

Cle: Owen Marecic

Pit: David Johnson

My rank: put them all at #4. Don't really know enough about them to know who would be best. If forced, Marecic sucks hind tit.

Tight Ends:

Cin.: Jermaine Gresham

Balt: Dennis Pitta

Cle: Jordan Cameron

Pit.: Heath Miller

my rank: 1. Gresham 2. Pitta 3. Miller 4. Cameron Our guy has no track record, the others do. Miller trailing off.

Left WR:

Cin: Mohamed Sanu

Balt: Torrey Smith

Cle: Josh Gordon

Pit: Emmanuel Sanders

My rank: Hard choices here, I am going purely by experience level: 1. Smith 2. Sanders 3. Gordon 4. Sanu

Right WR:

Cin: AJ Green

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: Greg Little

Pit: Antonio Brown

My rank: 1. Green 2. Jones...merely because of his playoff performance 3. Brown, merely because of experience 4. Little

Left Tackle:

Cin: Andre Whitworth

Balt: Bryant McKinnie

Cle: Joe Thomas

Pit: Mike Adams

My ranking: 1. JT 2. Whitworth 3.McKinnie 4. Adams

Left Guard:

Cin: Trevelle Wharton

Balt: Kelechie Osemele

Cle: Shaun Lauvao

Pitt: Ramon Foster

my rank: again, not a lot of difference. 1. Osemele 2. Wharton 3. Foster 4. Lauvao....but this would change because I don't think Lauvao will start, Pinkston would, and he would be at #2 or 3.

Center:

Cin: Trevor Robinson

Balt: Gino Gradkowski

Cle: Alex Mack

Pit: Maurkice Pouncey

My rank: 1. Mack 2. Pouncey 3. Robinson 4. Gradkowski. Even though some, not I think Pouncey may be better, he gets demoted for his display of ignorance.

Right Guard:

Cin: Kevin Zeitler

Balt: Marshal Yanda

Cle: John Greco

Pit: David DeCastro

My rank: 1. Yanda 2. Zeitler 3. Greco 4. DeCastro Greco could be challenged for his starting spot. High draft choices don't mean a guy can cut the mustard until he can prove it on the field. DeCastro has to play, and play well, if he wants to move up.

Right Tackle:

Cin.: Andre Smith

Balt: Michael Oher

Cle: The Schwartz

Pit: Marcus Gilbert

My rank: I really want to put The Schwartz #1 because I think he will be #1, but, I still will put it this way: 1. Oher 2. Smith 3 Schwartz 4. Gilbert

Kicker:

Cin: Mike Nugent

Balt: Justin Tucker

Cle: Shayne Graham

Pit.: Shaun Suisam

my rank: 1. Nugent 2. Tucker 3. Suisam 4. Graham. Browns had the #1 guy, but he got away. I have no clue how his replacement will do

Punt Returner:

Cin: Pacman Jones

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: probably Travis Benjamin

Pit: Antonio Brown

my rank: 1. Jacoby Jones 2. Brown 3. Pacman 4. Benjamin....primarily because I don't even know if he will actually have that job.

Kick Returner:

Cin: Brandon Tate

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: ?????

Pitt: Emmanuel Sanders.

My rank: 1. Jones 2. Sanders 3. Tate 4. ????? who the hell is going to return kickoffs for the Browns?

Give your comments. Defense later.

Here is one comment: Browns went from having the best player at several special teams positions to perhaps having the worst. The replacements for Dawson and Cribbs have a lot to prove.

Captain Cheesedick

QB:

Flacco- Rothles

Dalton

Weeden

RB:

Rice

Richardson

Ellis

(haven't seen Bell in NFL yet)

Tight End:

Miller

all (the others)

WR:

Smith

Sanders

Tackle:

Thomas

(all the others)

Centers:

Mack

Pouncey

Zombo

We've got Left Tackle and Center.

We are young everywhere.

Stay tuned.

Z

FairHooker11

@the-gipper said:

Training camp is about to open, so I thought it would be a good time to do an AFCN roster analysis. Start here with the Offenses. Rank the talent at each position 1-4

Quarterbacks:

Cin: Andy Dalton

Balt. Joe Flacco

Cle. Brandon Weeden

Pit. Ben Roethlisberger

Running Backs:

Cin: Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

Balt: Ray Rice

Cle: Trent Richardson

Pit. Leveon Bell

Fullbacks:

Cin: Chris Pressley

Balt. Kyle Juszczyk

Cle: Owen Marecic

Pit: David Johnson

Tight Ends:

Cin.: Jermaine Gresham

Balt: Dennis Pitta

Cle: Jordan Cameron

Pit.: Heath Miller

Left WR:

Cin: Mohamed Sanu

Balt: Torrey Smith

Cle: Josh Gordon

Pit: Emmanuel Sanders

Right WR:

Cin: AJ Green

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: Greg Little

Pit: Antonio Brown

Left Tackle:

Cin: Andre Whitworth

Balt: Bryant McKinnie

Cle: Joe Thomas

Pit: Mike Adams

Left Guard:

Cin: Trevelle Wharton

Balt: Kelechie Osemele

Cle: Shaun Lauvao

Pitt: Ramon Foster

Center:

Cin: Trevor Robinson

Balt: Gino Gradkowski

Cle: Alex Mack

Pit: Maurkice Pouncey

Right Guard:

Cin: Kevin Zeitler

Balt: Marshal Yanda

Cle: John Greco

Pit: David DeCastro

Right Tackle:

Cin.: Andre Smith

Balt: Michael Oher

Cle: The Schwartz

Pit: Marcus Gilbert

Kicker:

Cin: Mike Nugent

Balt: Justin Tucker

Cle: Shayne Graham

Pit.: Shaun Suisam

Punt Returner:

Cin: Pacman Jones

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: probably Travis Benjamin

Pit: Antonio Brown

Kick Returner:

Cin: Brandon Tate

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: ?????

Pitt: Emmanuel Sanders.

Give your comments. Defense later.

thenew23

@the-gipper said:

My pure talent rankings...

Quarterbacks:

1. Flacco

2. Roethlisberger

3. Weeden

4. Dalton

Running Backs:

1. T Rich

2. Rice

3. Green-Ellis / Bernard

4. Bell / Dwyer

Fullbacks:

Wash... maybe Marecic is the worst

Tight Ends:

1. Pitta

2. Miller

3. Gresham

4. Cameron

Left WR:

1. Gordon

2. Smith

3. Sanders

4. Sanu

Right WR:

1. Green

2. Brown

3. Little

4. Jones

Left Tackle:

1. Thomas

2. Whitworth

3. McKinnie

4. Adams

Left Guard:

1. Osemele

2. Wharton

3. Foster

4. Lauvao

Center:

1. Mack

2. Pouncey

3. Robinson

4. Gradkowski

Right Guard:

1. Yanda

2. DeCastro

3. Zeitler

4. Greco

Right Tackle:

1. Schwartz

2. Smith

3. Oher

4. Gilbert

Kicker:

1. Nugent

2. Tucker

3. Graham

4. Suisham

Punt Returner:

1. J. Jones

2. P. Jones

3. Benjamin

4. Brown

Kick Returner:

1. J. Jones

2. Tate

3. Bademosi / Benjamin / Skrine

4. Sanders

calfoxwc

I'm rating the players according to how this season will end:

Quarterbacks:

Cle. Brandon Weeden Lightbulb goes on full bright, has the offense around him

Cin: Andy Dalton Dalton has the offense around him, but the Browns are better, and Dalton doesn't have the arm

Balt. Joe Flacco Joltin Joe Flatulence was overrated, still is. Had the offense around him, not so much this coming year.

Pit. Ben Roethlisberger Stupidass Ben Rothlicksbooger won't have stars around him - he'll be seeing them.

Running Backs:

Cle: Trent Richardson The entire Browns offense will hit all cylinders - often be unstoppable.
Balt: Ray Rice Rice is terrific, but he's no TR

Pit. Leveon Bell Big Stupid Ben's only saving grace will be Bell running a lot.

Cin: Ben Jarvis Green Ellis whatever

Fullbacks:

Cin: Chris PressleyBalt. Kyle JuszczykCle: Owen MarecicPit: David Johnson All tied for second place...@@

Tight Ends:

Cin.: Jermaine GreshamCle: Jordan Cameron Tied for first. Cameron goes wild

Balt: Dennis PittaPit.: Heath Miller Tied for 4th place. "yawn"

Left WR:

Balt: Torrey Smith Smith is one blazing fast wr. Bigtime playmaker.

Cle: Josh Gordon Gordon is a close second, doesn't have Smith's speed, but will be a star.

Pit: Emmanuel SandersCin: Mohamed Sanu These two will be tied for 4th place. No, they don't deserve third, dammit.

Right WR:

Cle: Greg Little - Will also go wild, with Cameron, Gordon, Benjamin, the whole offense will be great.

Cin: AJ Green Green is hard to stop - He's a very close second.

Balt: Jacoby JonesPit: Antonio Brown Tied for third. Ben won't get the ball to him often.

Left Tackle:

Cle: Joe Thomas JT rules. Nobody does it better.

Cin: Andre Whitworth Huge, solid player. A distant second place. Can't stop the Browns rush, though. Not quick enough.

Balt: Bryant McKinnie Will get holding calls vs the Browns

Pit: Mike Adams Plays for a crappy offense this coming year. Pittsburg fans stay home. All 50 of them.

Left Guard:

Cin: Trevelle Wharton Clear favorite

Balt: Kelechie Osemele Solid, mean player. Not that quick, feet wise.

Cle: Shaun Lauvao Probly backs up Greco...

Pitt: Ramon Foster If there was a fifth place, I'd put him in it.

Center:

Cle: Alex Mack Mack also rules

Pit: Maurkice PounceyCin: Trevor RobinsonBalt: Gino Gradkowski All three tied for third place. Whatever

Right Guard:

Balt: Marshal YandaCle: John GrecoPit: David DeCastro Depends. DeCastro is probly one, except their

offense will suck. Yanda is good, but Greco will be solid.

Cin: Kevin Zeitler who?

Right Tackle:

Cle: The Schwartz Great pick, if I may say so myself.... He may end up all pro. He's that good.

Cin.: Andre Smith Tough, very good. He's no Schwartz.

Balt: Michael Oher Gettin up there.

Pit: Marcus Gilbert Will hate Big Stupid Ben holding onto the ball by midseason.

Kicker:

Cin: Mike Nugent He's number one.

Balt: Justin TuckerCle: Shayne Graham Tied for second.

Pit.: Shaun Suisam Will kick a lot of field goals. Will miss half of them, because Big Stupid Ben

will keep staggering around the field right in the middle of a the kick.

Punt Returner:

No idea.

Cin: Pacman JonesBalt: Jacoby JonesCle: probably Travis BenjaminPit: Antonio Brown

Kick Returner:

All tied...for second place....

Cin: Brandon TateBalt: Jacoby JonesCle: ?????Pitt: Emmanuel Sanders.

Vagitron

I dont have time to fully respond but will johnson is our fullback and antonio brown wont be returning kicks. Oh and heath miller had a career year before getting hurt. Im not sure how that implies he will be trailing off unless you assume he wont recover from injury.

Flacco also isnt better than ben. He had a strong playoff, the guy needs to do it again before hes crowned anything.

miktoxic

i'm not ranking players but with all the additions and subtractions throughout the division, i think it's up for grabs.

UNLESS

weeden sucks ass again and that means we will be the cellar dweller once again.

choco

Ben went from clutch to crunch. He's not as good as you hope him to be. Besides....these rankings are for this year....not 2009.....when Ben was actually good.

calfoxwc

It's easy to be "good" when you have 8 secs to throw and a Hinesend Ward to make you look like a genius on

a 10 yard pass. Big Stupid Ben has a hell of an arm, and no longer has outstanding talent around him.

"poof" went the playoffs with a defense that isn't what it used to be either.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:

I dont have time to fully respond but will johnson is our fullback and antonio brown wont be returning kicks. Oh and heath miller had a career year before getting hurt. Im not sure how that implies he will be trailing off unless you assume he wont recover from injury.

Flacco also isnt better than ben. He had a strong playoff, the guy needs to do it again before hes crowned anything.

I took the starter info from the Ourlads Depth Chart guide. So if you have an issue there, take it up with them. Any number of the projected starters on these rosters could change before the season starts.

As for Miller, for some reason I thought he was older than he is. It seems like he has been around forever, but he is only 31.

But, yea, having a debilitating injury is certainly a factor in ranking someone. But, under any circumstance, he is not better than Gresham. Injuries is why BR gets "demoted" under Flacco at this point. Though I might in principle agree that Flacco is not overall as good as BR, the fact is, Flacco has done it lately, and BR hasn't. And Ron Jaworski himself feels that BR is tailing off. Injuries are going to make it that he won't have the escapability that he had before, and that is....or was a big part of his game.

The Gipper

AFCN Offensive players who made last year's Pro Bowl:

Roethlisberger

Dalton

(note: Flacco did not!)

Ray Rice

AJ Green

Gresham

Joe Thomas

Yanda

Ben Grubbs

Pouncey

Antonio Brown, KR

The Gipper

@the-gipper said:

Training camp is about to open, so I thought it would be a good time to do an AFCN roster analysis. Start here with the Offenses. Rank the talent at each position 1-4

I will do the same here as I did for the defense and give the PFR Season Productivity average from last year. Again, it is a single digit representing that players productivity in the 2012 season.

Quarterbacks:

Cin: Andy Dalton

Balt. Joe Flacco

Cle. Brandon Weeden

Pit. Ben Roethlisberger

Dalton 13, Flacco 13, Roethlisberg 10, Weeden 8

Running Backs:

Cin: Ben Jarvis Green Ellis

Balt: Ray Rice

Cle: Trent Richardson

Pit. Leveon Bell

Rice 13, Green-Ellis 8, Richardson 6, Bell NR

Fullbacks:

Cin: Chris Pressley

Balt. Kyle Juszczyk

Cle: Owen Marecic

Pit: David Johnson

Marecic -0-, Pressley -0-, Johnson NR, Juszczyk NR

Tight Ends:

Cin.: Jermaine Gresham

Balt: Dennis Pitta

Cle: Jordan Cameron

Pit.: Heath Miller

Gresham 7, Miller 7, Pitta 6, Cameron 2

Left WR:

Cin: Mohamed Sanu

Balt: Torrey Smith

Cle: Josh Gordon

Pit: Emmanuel Sanders

Smith 8, Gordon 6, Sanders 5, Sanu 2

Right WR:

Cin: AJ Green

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: Greg Little

Pit: Antonio Brown

Green 13, Jones 7, Brown 6, Little 5

Left Tackle:

Cin: Andre Whitworth

Balt: Bryant McKinnie

Cle: Joe Thomas

Pit: Mike Adams

Thomas 11, Whithworth 11, Adams 3, McKinnie 1

Left Guard:

Cin: Trevelle Wharton

Balt: Kelechie Osemele

Cle: Shaun Lauvao

Pitt: Ramon Foster

Lauvao 7, Osemele 7, Foster 7, Wharton -0-

Center:

Cin: Trevor Robinson

Balt: Gino Gradkowski

Cle: Alex Mack

Pit: Maurkice Pouncey

Pouncey 11, Mack 7, Robinson 4, Gradkowski 1

Right Guard:

Cin: Kevin Zeitler

Balt: Marshal Yanda

Cle: John Greco

Pit: David DeCastro

Yanda 10, Zeitler 8, Greco 5, DeCastro 1

Right Tackle:

Cin.: Andre Smith

Balt: Michael Oher

Cle: The Schwartz

Pit: Marcus Gilbert

Smith 7, Schwartz 7, Oher 7, Gilbert 2

Kicker:

Cin: Mike Nugent

Balt: Justin Tucker

Cle: Shayne Graham

Pit.: Shaun Suisam

Tucker 5, Suisham 4, Graham 3, Nugent 2

Punt Returner:

Cin: Pacman Jones

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: probably Travis Benjamin

Pit: Antonio Brown

Kick Returner:

Cin: Brandon Tate

Balt: Jacoby Jones

Cle: ?????

Pitt: Emmanuel Sanders.

Returners not ranked because they hold other positions.

Give your comments. Defense later.

Unsympathetic

Pinkston was the starter from day 2 of camp. Lauvao is the backup to both him and Greco. We don't have a weakness at guard.

Also, Smith is Balt's #1 but Green is Cin's #1.

Flacco, Ben, Weeden, Dalton

Rice, TRich, BJGE, Bell

I refuse to rank FB's.

Gresham Miller Pitta Cameron

Smith Gordon Sanders Sanu

Green Brown Jones Little

Thomas McK Adams Whitworth

Osemele Pinkston Wharton Foster

Mack Pouncey Robinson Gradk

Greco Yanda Zeitler DeCastro

Smith Schwartz Oher Gilbert

The Gipper

Here is how each team fared in the numbers of players ranked at the top spot at each position in the PFR season production average rank. I include ties...but exclude FBs all of who scored -0-:

Baltimore: 7 at top spot: Flacco, Rice, Smith, Osemele, Yanda, Tucker, Oher

Cincy: 5 at top spot: Dalton, Gresham, Green, Whitworth, Smith

Cleve: 3 at top spot: Thomas, Lauvao, Schwartz

Pitt: 2 at top spot: Miller, Foster

The Gipper

Cumulative total PFR season production points for each team's offense. Again, this should, theoretically reflect the strength of each team's offense based on last year's production:

Baltimore 78 points

Cincinati 75 points

Cleveland 64 points

Pittsburgh 56 points

Note that if a rookie was the projected starter then no points were given there. E.g. no points for Leveon Bell, the projected starte at RB for the Steelers. However, for them, if you put Jonathan Dwyer in at RB, the possible starter if Bell doesn't win the job, that would give them 5 additional points.

I actually think that Bell is the ONLY rookie projected to start at any offensive position in the AFC North, besides a fullback for Baltimore...but no fullbacks were awarded any points in the above cumulation.

thenew23

I already posted once, but I have to take another look b/c our 6 divisional games are SOOOO important. We have to start winning them, and we need production in order to do it:

QB - Hard to say. None of these guys are "elite" in my opinion. Sure Flacco has a ring and Ben has 2, but Ben, while he IS a good QB, is the product of having his team's D and Flacco got lucky last year. Dalton seems to have the lowest ceiling of the 4, but he has AJ Green. Weeden is a similar QB to Flacco in that they both have great arm strength, but can make dumb mistakes. Ben and Flacco get the nod b/c of experience and being less likely to make the mistake that costs their team the game. (2013 prediction: Flacco, Ben, Weeden, Dalton)

RB - 2 elite backs in this division, one mediocre, and one rookie. This one is pretty easy. (2013 prediction: Richardson/Hardesty, Rice/Pierce, Bell/Redman, Green-Ellis/Bernard)

WR - Another challenging position to evaluate. It seems the teams with the most talent at WR have the worst QBs, and vice versa. AJ Green IS the best in the division, and easily top 5 in the NFL. Ben lost his top guy. Flacco lost his "Mr. Reliable." Gordon is out 2 games... Evaluating the entire WR corps of these teams, from top to bottom, none are "great" but I can't argue with the top guy putting his team over the edge. The numbers might not end up showing it, b/c of QB play, but the talent is in this order. (2013 prediction: Bengals: AJ Green, Sanu, Hawkins; Browns: Gordon, Little, Bess; Ravens: Smith, Jones, others; Steelers: Brown, Sanders, others)

TE - AFC North TEs scoring TDs is commonplace, especially in division games. Norv loves his TEs, but Dalton doesn't seem to find his. (2013 prediction: Ravens: Pitta, Dickson; Steelers: Miller, Spaeth; Browns: Cameron, Davis; Bengals: Gresham, Eifert)

OLine - The true strength of this division, and what makes these games so good... the trenches!! All 4 teams have good run-blocking, but the Browns take the cake b/c of their excellent pass protection. Weeden should have all the time in the world to make it or break it. It looks like the Steelers plan to start Mike Adams at LT... enough said... (2013 prediction: Browns, Bengals, Ravens, Steelers)

Zombo

@thenew23 said:

I already posted once, but I have to take another look b/c our 6 divisional games are SOOOO important. We have to start winning them, and we need production in order to do it:

QB - Hard to say. None of these guys are "elite" in my opinion. Sure Flacco has a ring and Ben has 2, but Ben, while he IS a good QB, is the product of having his team's D and Flacco got lucky last year. Dalton seems to have the lowest ceiling of the 4, but he has AJ Green. Weeden is a similar QB to Flacco in that they both have great arm strength, but can make dumb mistakes. Ben and Flacco get the nod b/c of experience and being less likely to make the mistake that costs their team the game. (2013 prediction: Flacco, Ben, Weeden, Dalton)

RB - 2 elite backs in this division, one mediocre, and one rookie. This one is pretty easy. (2013 prediction: Richardson/Hardesty, Rice/Pierce, Bell/Redman, Green-Ellis/Bernard)

WR - Another challenging position to evaluate. It seems the teams with the most talent at WR have the worst QBs, and vice versa. AJ Green IS the best in the division, and easily top 5 in the NFL. Ben lost his top guy. Flacco lost his "Mr. Reliable." Gordon is out 2 games... Evaluating the entire WR corps of these teams, from top to bottom, none are "great" but I can't argue with the top guy putting his team over the edge. The numbers might not end up showing it, b/c of QB play, but the talent is in this order. (2013 prediction: Bengals: AJ Green, Sanu, Hawkins; Browns: Gordon, Little, Bess; Ravens: Smith, Jones, others; Steelers: Brown, Sanders, others)

TE - AFC North TEs scoring TDs is commonplace, especially in division games. Norv loves his TEs, but Dalton doesn't seem to find his. (2013 prediction: Ravens: Pitta, Dickson; Steelers: Miller, Spaeth; Browns: Cameron, Davis; Bengals: Gresham, Eifert)

OLine - The true strength of this division, and what makes these games so good... the trenches!! All 4 teams have good run-blocking, but the Browns take the cake b/c of their excellent pass protection. Weeden should have all the time in the world to make it or break it. It looks like the Steelers plan to start Mike Adams at LT... enough said... (2013 prediction: Browns, Bengals, Ravens, Steelers)

Good analysis, a little homerish, but that's why we're here. I thought Gresham was a good tight end and Eifert a good draft pick, I'm a little baffled why you put them last ... they might be first.

Zombo

thenew23

Zombo said:

Good analysis, a little homerish, but that's why we're here. I thought Gresham was a good tight end and Eifert a good draft pick, I'm a little baffled why you put them last ... they might be first.

Zombo

Mostly scheme. It never seems that the Bengals utilize their TEs as they could/should. Eifert and Gresham are talented, but Eifert's a rookie and Gresham has been inconsistent in his career. I see the Steelers/Ravens/Browns using their TEs more this year and putting them in positions to make bigger plays and score more TDs.

The Gipper

Zombo said:

Good analysis, a little homerish, but that's why we're here. I thought Gresham was a good tight end and Eifert a good draft pick, I'm a little baffled why you put them last ... they might be first.

Zombo

Yea, agree. I can't figure him out there.