Eric Barton
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Instead of suffering through a football-free Sunday, I watched a lot of Jets' ILB Eric Barton to see whether he could solidify one of our ILB spots.
Here's a scouting report I put together based on what I saw:
Positives
Smart, technically-sound player who makes very few mistakes...Adept at getting low to avoid blocks and grab ball carriers by the ankles...Decent straight-line speed...Is good at chasing plays and assisting on a tackle...When he's not fighting off blockers, he can be a little explosive...Has experience playing both inside linebacker spots.
Negatives
Can get engulfed by blockers...Once a linemen gets into his chest, he shows marginal ability to shed blocks...A lot of his tackles were 5+ yards beyond the line of scrimmage...More of a drag-down tackler, often giving up an additional 2-3 yards before bringing the ball carrier down...Wasn't consistently effective in coverage and was used less on passing downs late in the season...Can get some push as a blitzer when he hits a lineman while running at full speed, but is otherwise not effective as a rusher.
Conclusions
His experience playing for Mangini makes Barton a likely target in free agency, but his age (31) and below average strength make him more of an insurance policy than a decent starting option. Signing him would put us in a better situation if Aaron Curry is off the board at pick #5, but Barton isn't good enough to justify passing on the Wake Forest product.
Barton's best role for the team may be as a veteran reserve/third linebacker in an ILB rotation, allowing the Browns to give up on the Leon Williams experiment without having to heavily rely on Beau Bell if a starter goes down.
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@shepwrite said:
Well, he did start last year for a Jets team that ranked 7th against the run and he had 119 tackles. I don't see how he feels like backing up for the Browns is a good career move.Based on watching the Jets, I'd say that Kris Jenkins had a lot more to do with them ranking 7th against the run than anything Barton did.
And because FA comes before the draft, it doesn't really make sense to say that he'd be signing to be a backup.
If we end up going ILB in Round 1, Barton would be a relatively high-paid backup, but he could be pretty valuable if DQ or Curry/whoever gets hurt.
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He's quicker and takes better angles, but probably isn't as strong as Andra Davis.
One thing I noticed the past few years is that Davis looked better in snowy/bad weather games: when the game slowed down, he ended up playing better.
Because he's not as strong as Davis, Barton didn't get any better in bad weather: he delivered a mostly nondescript performance (4 tackles) in the Seattle game late in the season.
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@shepwrite said:
I would have to say that Barton and his 119 tackles are better than Andra Davis at this point in their careers. And aren't they the same age?Hmm, yeah I guess so, I didn't realize Davis was already 30 (31 for the upcoming season).
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For a player comparison on Barton, I'd say an older James Laurinaitis.
Crowell actually played in a 3-4 at Virginia, but I think it was at OLB.
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I would only take him if he was available after the draft and he was fairly cheap. He could be an adaquate backup at either ILB spots.
Fact is, you need speed, have to be strong and football smart to play ILB in the 3-4. Most of all, you can't get caught up in traffic and have to be able to get off of blocks.
The main reason Davis was a non-factor in our 3-4 system had nothing to do with his lack of effort. He was just too slow and couldn't ge off blocks. He also took bad angles and never could maintain his gap integrity.
Speed, Strength and Athletic..............Curry seems to fit that bill. Is a Crowder or a Bart Scott a better option so we can use our first pick for a pass rusher?
But, we do need a backup.
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Yeah - if Crowell had a fit in a 3-4, it'd be inside.
I raised the idea of him playing 3-4 ILB with Sobo, who didn't seem to think he'd be a good fit.
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@shepwrite said:
I think Beau Bell would be the backup. Bart Scott might be interesting, then we'd look mostly at pass rushers.BAL is going to keep 2 of the 3 of Lewis, Suggs and Scott.
Two of the 3 are supreme playmakes IMO, and the thrid may be the next Adalius Thomas. Guess which one they're not going to keep?
Hint - his name is above in bold.
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You get pas rushers to stop the Qb from passing, right? Forget Pass rushers for now....We cannot stop the run and haven't since we had earl holmes in the middle. Worry about pass rushers after you fill the gaping hole everybody runs through on us. Everybody worries about a pass rush...James Harrison (defensive MVP)was a UDFA. Woodley a second rounder...Pittsburgh Defense Number 1 against the run!!!!!!! Fill the freaking hole in the ILB positions then get passrushers....Can't anyone see the obvious?
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CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.
Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
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CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.
Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
Masters said:
CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
If you get Curry awesome but if he is Gone....I pray they get Rey!
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Masters said:
CLE certainly needs someone more stout at the SILB position. But it doesn't necessarily mean CLE has to get that guy in round 1 of the draft. To use the PIT example, neither guy in the middle is exactly a guy you fear, nor was either a 1st round pick of PIT. Farrior was a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder of the Jets and a FA signing of PITs.Chances are, if CLE takes Curry, they'd move him to ILB, where he has been projected to play in a 3-4 by a few experts.
If you get Curry awesome but if he is Gone....I pray they get Rey!
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Masters said:
I just can't see the value of Rey at #5 in the 1st round. I also just don't believe he was the best LB or defensive player for USC. Which makes taking a guy like him at #5 even more scary to me.You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
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Masters said:
I just can't see the value of Rey at #5 in the 1st round. I also just don't believe he was the best LB or defensive player for USC. Which makes taking a guy like him at #5 even more scary to me.You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.
Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
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You've made it abundantly clear that you think rey is third best LB on USC's corp. I disagree. And revert back to the Browns not having any better than good ILb's in my lifetime. Value is relative...for example looking back at Troy palamalu....his value ended up being #16 or so in the draft....if you had hindsight then....do you think his Value would be top 5 material? Strickly a value arguement....
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.
Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
Masters said:
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
Guess you missed the last sentence......Strickly a value arguement....
P.S. Rey M will be and is a three down Linebacker.
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and the comments above were why I started the post about best available vs need. We need LBs (both ILB and pass rush OLB) but if Curry is gone, at what point are we reaching for need and passing on the best player available.
I would rather try to grab the best LB I could get through FA and then take the best player available.
I agree with those above that think Rey is a reach with the #5 pick as is every other defensive player except Curry, at this point before the combine and pro days anyway.
If Curry is gone then we will be kicking ourselves that we didn't go hard after a Bart Scott or Crowder.
IMO once you get past Curry then the best defensive players are Jenkins, Everette Brown and Raji. And, they are all need reaches at #5.
Fill your needs in FA and take the best players available in the draft.
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Masters said:
Well, I'd actually say he was the 2nd best LB on USC corps. He is better than Clay Jr. But I don't think better than Cushing.Comparing Troy P to Rey is not apples to apples. We are talking two different positions, including one where the player is there 3 downs and one where the other guy will likely be 2 downs. Then throw in trying to to talk about hindsight about a player w/ success in the NFL vs. a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. You are comparing apples and bananas here.
I'd love to see CLE have a dominant ILB as much as the next guy. But not to the point of throwing caution to the wind to go after a guy just cause I'd want that dream, and have to cross my fingers that he's that. Especially since one of the scouting knocks on Rey is that he misses easy tackles and gets himself out of position trying to just hit. I'd be just as happy having ILB that perform like Foote and Farrior of PIT, Mayo and Bruschi of NE, Cooper and Dobbins of SD, or Harris and Barton of the Jets all performed this season.
Guess you missed the last sentence......Strickly a value arguement....
P.S. Rey M will be and is a three down Linebacker.
Guess you missed the last sentence......Strickly a value arguement....
P.S. Rey M will be and is a three down Linebacker.
I didn't miss it. Strictly value, Troy P was worth better. Rey still isn't. Five years from now it may come to fruition that he was worth better than where he was picked. But I sure won't count on that. If we want to go by that, I can find you guys every year who were drafted much higher than what their value ended up. The only things Troy and Rey have in comon now is the Samoan thing and USC.
Funny, scouts all over seem to disagree with you on that. Not to mention that in just about every 3-4, the guy playing SILB is the one that goes to the sidelines in Nickle and dime packages.
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