Browns waive Owens and Edwards
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Our corners are still too small to matchup with todays big WR's...we really need to get bigger at the position IMHO...
Our corners are still too small to matchup with todays big WR's...we really need to get bigger at the position IMHO...
How do you suggest we do that? No draft-worthy guys upwards of about 6'1, no FAs worth picking up over 6'0 (as far as I can see). Retrain someone's position? Move Mingo to corner? He has the athleticism to play anywhere, apparently. It's easy to say, a lot harder to do.
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More like McFadden stepped in for Owens and played well...get him more experience the rest of the year, no need to draft a CB high in the draft.
Yea, I guess that is confusing. Owens was one of the Browns primary FA pickups this past offseason. Probably #2 in importance behind Kruger. And now he is cut. I know that Skrine beat him out for a starting job...and apparently as noted McFadden has beaten him too.....but the Browns could still use depth. Are they saying that Posey also appears to be better?
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I've been watching McFadden and he can seriously play. Reminds me a little of Skrine last year where the gaffes were the gaffes, but you could tell he could run, he could cover, and he was not only willing to hit, but eager.
Now Jordan Poyer's playing regularly and might swing next year between CB and safety, giving us the size guy we need. With Skrine, McFadden, and Poyer set for the roster along with Haden, Gipson, and I semi-assume T.J. Ward, the Browns could add a depth guy but I don't see a lot of openings.
On defense, I just don't see any starters offering a great opportunity for upgrading. You always wanna get better and you always want competition, but I just don't see anybody I'm eager to sit.
Seems like ILB is a place we could bring a guy in at a fairly high level (2nd round?) who could work his way in like Gipson, McFadden, Robertson, etc., have in previous years.
Robertson and Skrine can both be upgraded instantly.
Robertson is ranked 81st in tackles. As an ILB in the 3-4, that's awful.
Understandably, the Will backer will get slightly more coverage assignments so his tackle numbers will be slightly lower, but Jackson has nearly twice as many tackles. Robertson has missed about 200 defensive snaps this season, but that's only about two more drives per game. He's also recorded zero INT's. He's serviceable, but that's it.
Skrine is a nickel corner. That's just what he is. There's ok shame in it, but he doesn't have the size to constantly match up play for play with a WR. His speed helps, but he also gets flagged too much when he's beaten.
Shayne Skov and Louchiez Purifoy would be fantastic pickups for us in rounds 2 and 3. Both are playmakers with great size and speed and both have been solid performers in the SEC and Pac 12. Both would more than likely be day one starters as well.
There are going to be great players in any conference, but I would feel much better taking defensive players from the SEC, as they seem to have pretty high rates of success lately. AJ Johnson would be a good ILB to look at in later rounds, but he's falling because of his lateral quickness and inability to make plays in space.
Robertson and Skrine can both be upgraded instantly.
Robertson is ranked 81st in tackles. As an ILB in the 3-4, that's awful.
Understandably, the Will backer will get slightly more coverage assignments so his tackle numbers will be slightly lower, but Jackson has nearly twice as many tackles. Robertson has missed about 200 defensive snaps this season, but that's only about two more drives per game. He's also recorded zero INT's. He's serviceable, but that's it.
Skrine is a nickel corner. That's just what he is. There's ok shame in it, but he doesn't have the size to constantly match up play for play with a WR. His speed helps, but he also gets flagged too much when he's beaten.
Shayne Skov and Louchiez Purifoy would be fantastic pickups for us in rounds 2 and 3. Both are playmakers with great size and speed and both have been solid performers in the SEC and Pac 12. Both would more than likely be day one starters as well.
There are going to be great players in any conference, but I would feel much better taking defensive players from the SEC, as they seem to have pretty high rates of success lately. AJ Johnson would be a good ILB to look at in later rounds, but he's falling because of his lateral quickness and inability to make plays in space.
I don't know about taking someone from the SEC just because they played in the SEC. Clifford Charlton played LB in the SEC.....one of the biggest busts in Browns history. Mingo is an SEC LB....and the jury is still out on him.
Gerard Warren...SEC....bust.
How about we get a guy that can play, regardless of conference/school.
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maybe it was more of a financial thing. they are not going to contribute anymore, the season it nearly over no sense in running a charity.
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These guys were both pretty much dead weight. McFadden got screwed on a terrible PI call against NE so I don't hold that against him. Might as well see what the guy can do in a few live games. All my app state friends swore Edwards would be Cleveland's savior, guess not haha. Shame he got hurt, I would have liked to see what he could do in a kickoff return role.
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Not really news. These guys were both done playing this year. They are both UFAs at the end of the season and weren't getting re-signed anyway. Cut them now, or let them walk at the end of the year... doesn't make much of a difference.
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Robertson and Skrine can both be upgraded instantly.
Robertson is ranked 81st in tackles. As an ILB in the 3-4, that's awful.
Understandably, the Will backer will get slightly more coverage assignments so his tackle numbers will be slightly lower, but Jackson has nearly twice as many tackles. Robertson has missed about 200 defensive snaps this season, but that's only about two more drives per game. He's also recorded zero INT's. He's serviceable, but that's it.
Skrine is a nickel corner. That's just what he is. There's ok shame in it, but he doesn't have the size to constantly match up play for play with a WR. His speed helps, but he also gets flagged too much when he's beaten.
Shayne Skov and Louchiez Purifoy would be fantastic pickups for us in rounds 2 and 3. Both are playmakers with great size and speed and both have been solid performers in the SEC and Pac 12. Both would more than likely be day one starters as well.
There are going to be great players in any conference, but I would feel much better taking defensive players from the SEC, as they seem to have pretty high rates of success lately. AJ Johnson would be a good ILB to look at in later rounds, but he's falling because of his lateral quickness and inability to make plays in space.
I don't know about taking someone from the SEC just because they played in the SEC. Clifford Charlton played LB in the SEC.....one of the biggest busts in Browns history. Mingo is an SEC LB....and the jury is still out on him.
Gerard Warren...SEC....bust.
How about we get a guy that can play, regardless of conference/school.
First off, I didn't say take them because they played in the SEC. I said taking SEC players seems to result in a higher chance of them succeeding. And it does.I don't know about taking someone from the SEC just because they played in the SEC. Clifford Charlton played LB in the SEC.....one of the biggest busts in Browns history. Mingo is an SEC LB....and the jury is still out on him.
Gerard Warren...SEC....bust.
How about we get a guy that can play, regardless of conference/school.
SEC Defenders in Rounds 1-3 in 2012 NFL Draft.
Mo Claiborne
Mark Barron
Stephon Gilmore
Fletcher Cox
Michael Brockers
Dre Kirkpatrick
Melvin Ingram
Dont'a Hightower
Courtney Upshaw
Casey Hayward.
Jake Bequette
Any one of those players would start for us with the exception of Michael Brockers, Jake Bequette possibly Fletcher Cox.
SEC Defenders taken in rounds 1-3 in 2011 Draft.
Von Miller
Marcel Dareus
Patrick Peterson
Aldon Smith
Nick Fairley
Justin Houston
Chris Culliver
Drake Nevis
Akeem Dent
3 of them been to the Pro Bowl at least once in their three year careers. Nearly all of them would start for Cleveland.
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Fine....but I wouldn't pass up on the likes of Ryan Shazier LB Ohio St., Dennard CB Mich. St., Khalil Mack LB Buffalo, Barr CB UCLA, Tuitt DE Notre Dame etc. etc......just because they didn't play in the SEC.
Hell, in most quarters Mack is considered Top Ten.....and he played in the MAC (as did last year's #1 overall pick)
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Fine....but I wouldn't pass up on the likes of Ryan Shazier LB Ohio St., Dennard CB Mich. St., Khalil Mack LB Buffalo, Barr CB UCLA, Tuitt DE Notre Dame etc. etc......just because they didn't play in the SEC.
Hell, in most quarters Mack is considered Top Ten.....and he played in the MAC (as did last year's #1 overall pick)
Fine....but I wouldn't pass up on the likes of Ryan Shazier LB Ohio St., Dennard CB Mich. St., Khalil Mack LB Buffalo, Barr CB UCLA, Tuitt DE Notre Dame etc. etc......just because they didn't play in the SEC.
Hell, in most quarters Mack is considered Top Ten.....and he played in the MAC (as did last year's #1 overall pick)
Okay, you can have them. I'll take my guys, and the twenty other SEC defenders taken in the first two rounds of the last two drafts.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Fine....but I wouldn't pass up on the likes of Ryan Shazier LB Ohio St., Dennard CB Mich. St., Khalil Mack LB Buffalo, Barr CB UCLA, Tuitt DE Notre Dame etc. etc......just because they didn't play in the SEC.
Hell, in most quarters Mack is considered Top Ten.....and he played in the MAC (as did last year's #1 overall pick)
Okay, you can have them. I'll take my guys, and the twenty other SEC defenders taken in the first two rounds of the last two drafts.
Okay, you can have them. I'll take my guys, and the twenty other SEC defenders taken in the first two rounds of the last two drafts.
You are missing the point.
I am saying that if your turn for a draft pick comes up....and you have a need, say ILB.....and if you have two guys to perhaps choose from......I am not going to pick the SEC guy just because he played in the SEC. If I think the SEC guy is better, I will pick him. If I think the other guys is better I will pick him. I don't give the SEC bonus points for just having played in that conference.
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Fine....but I wouldn't pass up on the likes of Ryan Shazier LB Ohio St., Dennard CB Mich. St., Khalil Mack LB Buffalo, Barr CB UCLA, Tuitt DE Notre Dame etc. etc......just because they didn't play in the SEC.
Hell, in most quarters Mack is considered Top Ten.....and he played in the MAC (as did last year's #1 overall pick)
Okay, you can have them. I'll take my guys, and the twenty other SEC defenders taken in the first two rounds of the last two drafts.
Okay, you can have them. I'll take my guys, and the twenty other SEC defenders taken in the first two rounds of the last two drafts.
But, lets see how this does work out....just for shits and giggles. Here are the SEC defensive players taken in the 2012 and 2011 drafts in the first 2 rounds. (I thought it best not to evaluate the rookies just yet, fair enough?) and their productivity numbers:
Marcel Dareus 14
Patrick Peterson 33
Nick Fairly 6
Mark Barron 6
Stephon Gilmore 4
Fletcher Cox 5
Michael Brockers 6
Dre Kirkpatrick 0
Melvin Ingram 2
Donta Hightower 7
Courtney Upshaw 5
I am reluctant to include these two guys: Von Miller 27 and Aldon Smith 18.....as though they went to Texas A&M and Missouri....they never played a game while their schools were members of the SEC......they were Big 12 teams then.
Without them, the SEC gets 88 career production average points from these other players.
I am going to compare this with another conference....and I will choose the Pac 12 just for comparison. Lets see how they do:
Cameron Jordan 14
Jimmy Smith 3
Akeem Ayers 14
Brooks Reed 13
Rahim Moore 9
Stephan Paea 9
Nick Perry 2
Michael Kendricks 6
Total points: 70
More production from the SEC first and second rounders
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Sure, lets carry this out further: Big Ten defensive players taken in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft in 2011 and 2012, productivity
Whitney Mercilus 3
Tavon Wilson 4
Jerel Worthy 3
Devon Still 1
Lavonte David 9
Ryan Kerrigan 14
Corey Liguet 12
Prince Amakamura 5
Adrian Clayborn 6
Cameron Heyward 4
Stefan Wisniewski 5
Jonas Mouton 0
Total productivity points: 77
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Big 12:
Von Miller 27
Aldon Smith 18
Phil Taylor 12
Aaron Williams 5
Total productivity points: 62 points
Notes: A. These are the only 4 Big 12 defensive players taken out of the Big 12 in the first two rounds of the 2011/2012 drafts.
B. Millers and Smith's teams joined the SEC (Texas A&M and Missouri), but Miller and Smith never played in the SEC.
C. Miller has proven apparently to have been a steroid freak whose productivity has gone way down since being off the juice.
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ACC:
Zach Brown 7
Chandler Jones 6
Quinton Coples 3
Luke Kuechly 9
Robert Quinn 9
Ras-I-Dowling 1
Jaball Sheard 17
Bruce Carter 6
Jarvis Jenkins 5
Marquess Gilchrist 4
Da'Qwon Bowers 4
Marvin Austin 1
Brandon Harris 1
Total productivity points: 73
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Okay, you can have them. I'll take my guys, and the twenty other SEC defenders taken in the first two rounds of the last two drafts.
You are missing the point.
I am saying that if your turn for a draft pick comes up....and you have a need, say ILB.....and if you have two guys to perhaps choose from......I am not going to pick the SEC guy just because he played in the SEC. If I think the SEC guy is better, I will pick him. If I think the other guys is better I will pick him. I don't give the SEC bonus points for just having played in that conference.
I know the point. You're missing mine. If there are two equal guys available at the same position, I would pick the SEC guy because he played in the SEC. He faced tougher teams week in and week out.You are missing the point.
I am saying that if your turn for a draft pick comes up....and you have a need, say ILB.....and if you have two guys to perhaps choose from......I am not going to pick the SEC guy just because he played in the SEC. If I think the SEC guy is better, I will pick him. If I think the other guys is better I will pick him. I don't give the SEC bonus points for just having played in that conference.
Of course you pick the better prospect. But the tiebreaker is division. The guys I "mocked" were players that would seemingly be available at or around our picks.
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I know the point. You're missing mine. If there are two equal guys available at the same position, I would pick the SEC guy because he played in the SEC. He faced tougher teams week in and week out.You are missing the point.
I am saying that if your turn for a draft pick comes up....and you have a need, say ILB.....and if you have two guys to perhaps choose from......I am not going to pick the SEC guy just because he played in the SEC. If I think the SEC guy is better, I will pick him. If I think the other guys is better I will pick him. I don't give the SEC bonus points for just having played in that conference.
Of course you pick the better prospect. But the tiebreaker is division. The guys I "mocked" were players that would seemingly be available at or around our picks.
I know the point. You're missing mine. If there are two equal guys available at the same position, I would pick the SEC guy because he played in the SEC. He faced tougher teams week in and week out.
Of course you pick the better prospect. But the tiebreaker is division. The guys I "mocked" were players that would seemingly be available at or around our picks.
Yea, OK, you keep Clifford Charlton and Gerard Warren. If I get a Miami guy or a USC guy or an OSU guy....schools that have put more NFL talent on the field than any SEC team.....I will still ignore the conference.
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I know the point. You're missing mine. If there are two equal guys available at the same position, I would pick the SEC guy because he played in the SEC. He faced tougher teams week in and week out.
Of course you pick the better prospect. But the tiebreaker is division. The guys I "mocked" were players that would seemingly be available at or around our picks.
Yea, OK, you keep Clifford Charlton and Gerard Warren. If I get a Miami guy or a USC guy or an OSU guy....schools that have put more NFL talent on the field than any SEC team.....I will still ignore the conference.
Yea, OK, you keep Clifford Charlton and Gerard Warren. If I get a Miami guy or a USC guy or an OSU guy....schools that have put more NFL talent on the field than any SEC team.....I will still ignore the conference.
Yeah, sure, list the two busts you dug up and ignore the fact that there's double digit starting defenders from the conference taken in the last two years.
You're wrong. Again. Like you are on most occasions.
Stick to posting trivia questions.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
So Gip, what you're saying is, average points per player (assuming it's a relavant indicator)
Big10 ~ 6.5
SEC ~ 15.5
ACC ~ 5.5
I believe you may have disproved yourself.
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Yea, OK, you keep Clifford Charlton and Gerard Warren. If I get a Miami guy or a USC guy or an OSU guy....schools that have put more NFL talent on the field than any SEC team.....I will still ignore the conference.
Yeah, sure, list the two busts you dug up and ignore the fact that there's double digit starting defenders from the conference taken in the last two years.
You're wrong. Again. Like you are on most occasions.
Stick to posting trivia questions.
Yeah, sure, list the two busts you dug up and ignore the fact that there's double digit starting defenders from the conference taken in the last two years.
You're wrong. Again. Like you are on most occasions.
Stick to posting trivia questions.
I showed you the comparative productivity of those defensive players taken in the first rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts.
It showed that, yes, overall the SEC produced players that had slightly better production in their careers to date.....but it wasn't that overwhelming such that I would ignore a player's competence and just select a "conference".
Example: The Browns need an inside Linebacker. A couple of good ones that might be available for them are CJ Mosley and Ryan Shazier.
It would be as foolish to say, if given the choice that "I am going to take CJ Mosley over Ryan Shazier because he played in the SEC" as it would be for OSU honks to say "take the Ohio State player".
I will want the Browns to take the guy they think is better because he is better, not because he played in the SEC.
And how about this trivia question: How many SEC defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts: Answer: 11
How many Big Ten defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts? Answer: 12.
Now, does that infer that NFL GMs think that Big Ten defensive players are better than SEC defensive players? After all, they chose more.
So Gip, what you're saying is, average points per player (assuming it's a relavant indicator)
Big10 ~ 6.5
SEC ~ 15.5
ACC ~ 5.5
I believe you may have disproved yourself.
I don't know what kind of math they teach in England....but in the USA 88 pts divided by 11 SEC equals 8. 77 points divided by 12 Big Ten players equals 6.41.
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