Browns waive Owens and Edwards
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So Gip, what you're saying is, average points per player (assuming it's a relavant indicator)
Big10 ~ 6.5
SEC ~ 15.5
ACC ~ 5.5
I believe you may have disproved yourself.
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Yea, OK, you keep Clifford Charlton and Gerard Warren. If I get a Miami guy or a USC guy or an OSU guy....schools that have put more NFL talent on the field than any SEC team.....I will still ignore the conference.
Yeah, sure, list the two busts you dug up and ignore the fact that there's double digit starting defenders from the conference taken in the last two years.
You're wrong. Again. Like you are on most occasions.
Stick to posting trivia questions.
Yeah, sure, list the two busts you dug up and ignore the fact that there's double digit starting defenders from the conference taken in the last two years.
You're wrong. Again. Like you are on most occasions.
Stick to posting trivia questions.
I showed you the comparative productivity of those defensive players taken in the first rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts.
It showed that, yes, overall the SEC produced players that had slightly better production in their careers to date.....but it wasn't that overwhelming such that I would ignore a player's competence and just select a "conference".
Example: The Browns need an inside Linebacker. A couple of good ones that might be available for them are CJ Mosley and Ryan Shazier.
It would be as foolish to say, if given the choice that "I am going to take CJ Mosley over Ryan Shazier because he played in the SEC" as it would be for OSU honks to say "take the Ohio State player".
I will want the Browns to take the guy they think is better because he is better, not because he played in the SEC.
And how about this trivia question: How many SEC defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts: Answer: 11
How many Big Ten defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts? Answer: 12.
Now, does that infer that NFL GMs think that Big Ten defensive players are better than SEC defensive players? After all, they chose more.
So Gip, what you're saying is, average points per player (assuming it's a relavant indicator)
Big10 ~ 6.5
SEC ~ 15.5
ACC ~ 5.5
I believe you may have disproved yourself.
I don't know what kind of math they teach in England....but in the USA 88 pts divided by 11 SEC equals 8. 77 points divided by 12 Big Ten players equals 6.41.
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On a per player basis, the Pac 10 players rate out to an average of 8.5 productivity points....SEC players 8.0.
Also note: of the SEC's 88 points, 37.5% of them belong to one player: Patrick Peterson for whom a lot of his points were made because of his quality as a special teams player, not simply as a defender.
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Sorry, I misread big 12 as sec for some reason. Still, if that's your criteria, average productivity per player, surely big 12 is the way to go?
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Sorry, I misread big 12 as sec for some reason. Still, if that's your criteria, average productivity per player, surely big 12 is the way to go?
Sorry, I misread big 12 as sec for some reason. Still, if that's your criteria, average productivity per player, surely big 12 is the way to go?
Yes, the Big 12 had a few quality players, though as noted the one was suspended due to his steroid use....and it is questionable how good he really is given his use of PEDs.
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Well, then remove him from the sample set, and you have three players for a 35 point total, 11.7 average. Still above the others, but a smaller sample set.
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OK TCPO, I will make your winning argument....somewhat, for you. Instead of using the above "productivity numbers" which is a somewhat nefarious method of doing this, I will simply count the numbers of defensive players that made last years Pro Bowl and tell how many came from each of the "power" conferences. This includes both NFC and AFC defense only players and here are the numbers:
SEC: 11 players
Big Ten: 9 players
Big 12: 9 players*
Pac 12: 5 players
ACC: 5 players
Other: 5 players (smaller conferences/schools including like John Carroll, Troy, Alabama A&M, Idaho)
While the SEC has more defensive players make the Pro Bowl....it is not so significant that it would make me change my tune on a player and pick someone else just because he came from those teams.
*One or two of these players were from Missouri when they played in the Big 12.
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Yeah, sure, list the two busts you dug up and ignore the fact that there's double digit starting defenders from the conference taken in the last two years.
You're wrong. Again. Like you are on most occasions.
Stick to posting trivia questions.
I showed you the comparative productivity of those defensive players taken in the first rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts.
It showed that, yes, overall the SEC produced players that had slightly better production in their careers to date.....but it wasn't that overwhelming such that I would ignore a player's competence and just select a "conference".
Example: The Browns need an inside Linebacker. A couple of good ones that might be available for them are CJ Mosley and Ryan Shazier.
It would be as foolish to say, if given the choice that "I am going to take CJ Mosley over Ryan Shazier because he played in the SEC" as it would be for OSU honks to say "take the Ohio State player".
I will want the Browns to take the guy they think is better because he is better, not because he played in the SEC.
And how about this trivia question: How many SEC defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts: Answer: 11
How many Big Ten defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts? Answer: 12.
Now, does that infer that NFL GMs think that Big Ten defensive players are better than SEC defensive players? After all, they chose more.
So Gip, what you're saying is, average points per player (assuming it's a relavant indicator)
Big10 ~ 6.5
SEC ~ 15.5
ACC ~ 5.5
I believe you may have disproved yourself.
I don't know what kind of math they teach in England....but in the USA 88 pts divided by 11 SEC equals 8. 77 points divided by 12 Big Ten players equals 6.41.
I showed you the comparative productivity of those defensive players taken in the first rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts.
It showed that, yes, overall the SEC produced players that had slightly better production in their careers to date.....but it wasn't that overwhelming such that I would ignore a player's competence and just select a "conference".
Example: The Browns need an inside Linebacker. A couple of good ones that might be available for them are CJ Mosley and Ryan Shazier.
It would be as foolish to say, if given the choice that "I am going to take CJ Mosley over Ryan Shazier because he played in the SEC" as it would be for OSU honks to say "take the Ohio State player".
I will want the Browns to take the guy they think is better because he is better, not because he played in the SEC.
And how about this trivia question: How many SEC defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts: Answer: 11
How many Big Ten defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts? Answer: 12.
Now, does that infer that NFL GMs think that Big Ten defensive players are better than SEC defensive players? After all, they chose more.
I don't know what kind of math they teach in England....but in the USA 88 pts divided by 11 SEC equals 8. 77 points divided by 12 Big Ten players equals 6.41.
Right, but you're assuming I said take a guy solely because he's from the SEC, which I did not.
I simply said that, if there's two guys of equal value at the same position, conference would be my tiebreaker.
As for your Shazier/ Mosley example, I would take Mosley in a heartbeat. Mosley is the pass covering ILB we're lacking, he's a multi-year starter from one of the best teams in the nation, and he has the production you like to see.
If it were between Shazier/Johnson, however, I would take Shazier as he's the better player with higher upside.
If it were a wash, and there were two players with similar skill sets, similar production, and similar size, I would take the SEC guy because they've shown they are able to come in and produce right off the bat.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
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I showed you the comparative productivity of those defensive players taken in the first rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts.
It showed that, yes, overall the SEC produced players that had slightly better production in their careers to date.....but it wasn't that overwhelming such that I would ignore a player's competence and just select a "conference".
Example: The Browns need an inside Linebacker. A couple of good ones that might be available for them are CJ Mosley and Ryan Shazier.
It would be as foolish to say, if given the choice that "I am going to take CJ Mosley over Ryan Shazier because he played in the SEC" as it would be for OSU honks to say "take the Ohio State player".
I will want the Browns to take the guy they think is better because he is better, not because he played in the SEC.
And how about this trivia question: How many SEC defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts: Answer: 11
How many Big Ten defensive players were taken in the first two rounds of the 2011 and 2012 drafts? Answer: 12.
Now, does that infer that NFL GMs think that Big Ten defensive players are better than SEC defensive players? After all, they chose more.
I don't know what kind of math they teach in England....but in the USA 88 pts divided by 11 SEC equals 8. 77 points divided by 12 Big Ten players equals 6.41.
Right, but you're assuming I said take a guy solely because he's from the SEC, which I did not.
I simply said that, if there's two guys of equal value at the same position, conference would be my tiebreaker.
As for your Shazier/ Mosley example, I would take Mosley in a heartbeat. Mosley is the pass covering ILB we're lacking, he's a multi-year starter from one of the best teams in the nation, and he has the production you like to see.
If it were between Shazier/Johnson, however, I would take Shazier as he's the better player with higher upside.
If it were a wash, and there were two players with similar skill sets, similar production, and similar size, I would take the SEC guy because they've shown they are able to come in and produce right off the bat.
Right, but you're assuming I said take a guy solely because he's from the SEC, which I did not.
I simply said that, if there's two guys of equal value at the same position, conference would be my tiebreaker.
As for your Shazier/ Mosley example, I would take Mosley in a heartbeat. Mosley is the pass covering ILB we're lacking, he's a multi-year starter from one of the best teams in the nation, and he has the production you like to see.
If it were between Shazier/Johnson, however, I would take Shazier as he's the better player with higher upside.
If it were a wash, and there were two players with similar skill sets, similar production, and similar size, I would take the SEC guy because they've shown they are able to come in and produce right off the bat.
As my Pro Bowl analysis shows, the SEC may ever so slightly produce a few more defensive players than other leagues.
As for the Mosley/Shazier example....I am not familiar enough with Mosley to know if he may be better. I just know that I would advocate evaluting the player....and not the conference he played in.
I mean, as noted the SEC has produced its share of drek certainly. I mean WTF, it seems that the Browns (and everyone else) evaluation Trent Richardson so high simply because of the team and conference he played in.
So, to me, choosing that guy just because he went to that school/conferece was a major mistake.
I mean, Doug Martin was underevaluated because he went to Boise St.
Yet, who has turned out to be the better player?
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Right, but you're assuming I said take a guy solely because he's from the SEC, which I did not.
I simply said that, if there's two guys of equal value at the same position, conference would be my tiebreaker.
As for your Shazier/ Mosley example, I would take Mosley in a heartbeat. Mosley is the pass covering ILB we're lacking, he's a multi-year starter from one of the best teams in the nation, and he has the production you like to see.
If it were between Shazier/Johnson, however, I would take Shazier as he's the better player with higher upside.
If it were a wash, and there were two players with similar skill sets, similar production, and similar size, I would take the SEC guy because they've shown they are able to come in and produce right off the bat.
As my Pro Bowl analysis shows, the SEC may ever so slightly produce a few more defensive players than other leagues.
As for the Mosley/Shazier example....I am not familiar enough with Mosley to know if he may be better. I just know that I would advocate evaluting the player....and not the conference he played in.
I mean, as noted the SEC has produced its share of drek certainly. I mean WTF, it seems that the Browns (and everyone else) evaluation Trent Richardson so high simply because of the team and conference he played in.
So, to me, choosing that guy just because he went to that school/conferece was a major mistake.
I mean, Doug Martin was underevaluated because he went to Boise St.
Yet, who has turned out to be the better player?
As my Pro Bowl analysis shows, the SEC may ever so slightly produce a few more defensive players than other leagues.
As for the Mosley/Shazier example....I am not familiar enough with Mosley to know if he may be better. I just know that I would advocate evaluting the player....and not the conference he played in.
I mean, as noted the SEC has produced its share of drek certainly. I mean WTF, it seems that the Browns (and everyone else) evaluation Trent Richardson so high simply because of the team and conference he played in.
So, to me, choosing that guy just because he went to that school/conferece was a major mistake.
I mean, Doug Martin was underevaluated because he went to Boise St.
Yet, who has turned out to be the better player?
Well, I don't think Trent was taken solely because of his conference affiliation. It was probably more to do with the fact that he was a physical freak and seemed to be akin to AP, from a production standpoint as well as a physical standpoint. He could have played for any team, in any conference, and those comparisons to AP would have been made. Richardson, while being a mediocre NFL runningback, is still one of the most physically talented players in the league. He just has no ballcarrier vision and is a higher injury risk. For the record, I was adamantly against Richardson in the draft.
As for your example, Martin and Richardson weren't even close to being graded the same and that had less to do with conference as it did with scheme, so that example is not fitting. People didn't disregard Boise players because of conference (well, they did) as much as they did because of their offensive system. And it's so far worked out, as Martin is really the only Boise State skill player to make an impact. Further, Martin has lucked into a great running team, the Buccaneers have seen solid production from different runningbacks, including our former mediocre player Bobby Rainey.
I am familiar enough with both Shazier and Mosley to make the judgment that Mosley will be a better NFL linebacker, depending on the situation he's placed into. If we were to take both Shazier and Mosley, Mosley would most likely be the stronger player.
Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.
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Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.
Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.
So...if you are selecting someone because of conference affiliation....you are giving that person extra bonus evaluation points for being from that conference.
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Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.
Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.
So...if you are selecting someone because of conference affiliation....you are giving that person extra bonus evaluation points for being from that conference.
Quality of competition is definitely a factor when watching film. Thats why so much is on the line for those small school hopefuls when playing the big boys.Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.
Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.
So...if you are selecting someone because of conference affiliation....you are giving that person extra bonus evaluation points for being from that conference.
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Here is something also to consider:
1. Miami, FL-45
2. LSU-44
T3. Texas, Ohio State-42
5. USC-39 - See more at: http://www.holyturf.com/2011/04/nfl-players-conference-affiliation/#sthash.uhkpItbQ.dpuf
So, 4 of the 5 schools most prolific in providing the NFL with players are not SEC.
Maybe, all things being equal, you may want to look at the school, rather than just the conference.
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Quality of competition is definitely a factor when watching film. Thats why so much is on the line for those small school hopefuls when playing the big boys.Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.
Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.
So...if you are selecting someone because of conference affiliation....you are giving that person extra bonus evaluation points for being from that conference.
XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Quality of competition is definitely a factor when watching film. Thats why so much is on the line for those small school hopefuls when playing the big boys.
You know what a lot of scouts/coaches put faith in: Senior Bowl performance (in practice for that game even more so than the game itself)
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Quality of competition is definitely a factor when watching film. Thats why so much is on the line for those small school hopefuls when playing the big boys.
You know what a lot of scouts/coaches put faith in: Senior Bowl performance (in practice for that game even more so than the game itself)
For sure. Imagine if we could get the underclassmen who are declaring in those all star games, or have a combine game. Always nice when you can matchup the best available guys and see who wins those individual battles for a few days.You know what a lot of scouts/coaches put faith in: Senior Bowl performance (in practice for that game even more so than the game itself)
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Once again, in a tie between players, the SEC player gets benefit of the doubt.
Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.
So...if you are selecting someone because of conference affiliation....you are giving that person extra bonus evaluation points for being from that conference.
Well, here is my point.....I do not believe there can ever be a tie.
No ties? In an inexact effort like player evaluation... no ties?
I'd be shocked if there was a single NFL board that did not have at least one tie... especially when you get to the second and third days.
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