Another candidate emerges ....... Bills DC
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never will get why lots like horton yes his d might ranked 9 but they could never hold leads. to me he was most over rated coach on the staff
never will get why lots like horton yes his d might ranked 9 but they could never hold leads. to me he was most over rated coach on the staff
The Ds production rapidly declined in the second half of the year.
But that could be partially due to lack of depth and injuries, like Bryant.
They were bottom 5 in red zone and 3rd down all year though. And Norv Turner and Horton can battle for the overrated award.
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listen. horton changing our scheme prob fucked us more than anything.
the year before playing the 4-3 sheard was a sack master, play that same scheme with mingo on the other side?
c'mon man,
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listen. horton changing our scheme prob fucked us more than anything.
the year before playing the 4-3 sheard was a sack master, play that same scheme with mingo on the other side?
c'mon man,
listen. horton changing our scheme prob fucked us more than anything.
the year before playing the 4-3 sheard was a sack master, play that same scheme with mingo on the other side?
c'mon man,
I 100% agree that the Shurmur regime was actually building something with that 4-3, and yeah Sheard did play better in that scheme but he wasn't a "sack master" back then either. I hated the Shurmur firing cause I knew it was another rebuild, not cause I liked Shurmur that much. But regime change is regime change. And this defense is better against the run. I just think whatever scheme you choose it has to stay for a while, not change every fucking year. I thought Horton did an outstanding job for a first year defense. If they had pulled some of that shit in year 3 though that would be another matter. Oh and we might not have drafted Mingo if we had stayed in the 4-3. Yeah i know it's what he played at LSU but he's not built to be a 4-3 DE in the NFL. He had enough problems holding up at the point in this scheme. If he had to put his hand in the dirt and get grabbed right off the line by a tackle on every play......he'd be on the practice squad by the end of the year. His strength is free ranging to the ball while keeping hands off him. As soon as people put hands on him he's neutralized.
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and norv looks like he's headed to minnesota.
horton did shit for us for the talent we had on D.
hire rob ryan as HC with the long hair. WMMS and the rock and roll hall of fame lookin Nword.
and norv looks like he's headed to minnesota.
horton did shit for us for the talent we had on D.
hire rob ryan as HC with the long hair. WMMS and the rock and roll hall of fame lookin Nword.
Too bad the Jets didn't fire Rex. I'd kind of like to have the Ryan brothers in Cleveland...
No Gipper, not Craig and Ricky...
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
and norv looks like he's headed to minnesota.
horton did shit for us for the talent we had on D.
hire rob ryan as HC with the long hair. WMMS and the rock and roll hall of fame lookin Nword.
Too bad the Jets didn't fire Rex. I'd kind of like to have the Ryan brothers in Cleveland...
No Gipper, not Craig and Ricky...
WSS
Too bad the Jets didn't fire Rex. I'd kind of like to have the Ryan brothers in Cleveland...
No Gipper, not Craig and Ricky...
WSS
I like the Rob brother a lot more than Rex.
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
lol, you forgot to use pink font.
Nah... colorblind...
Zombo said:
Ill take a defensive coach that hires a good OC all day.
Ditto... just not this DC.. Still holding out for Quinn.
Too bad the Jets didn't fire Rex. I'd kind of like to have the Ryan brothers in Cleveland...
The day Rex Ryan comes to CLE is the day I have officially had enough.
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and norv looks like he's headed to minnesota.
horton did shit for us for the talent we had on D.
hire rob ryan as HC with the long hair. WMMS and the rock and roll hall of fame lookin Nword.
Too bad the Jets didn't fire Rex. I'd kind of like to have the Ryan brothers in Cleveland...
No Gipper, not Craig and Ricky...
WSS
Too bad the Jets didn't fire Rex. I'd kind of like to have the Ryan brothers in Cleveland...
No Gipper, not Craig and Ricky...
WSS
But cut from the same cloth.
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Too bad the Jets didn't fire Rex. I'd kind of like to have the Ryan brothers in Cleveland...
No Gipper, not Craig and Ricky...
WSS
I like the Rob brother a lot more than Rex.
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horton did shit for us for the talent we had on D.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/seasontype/2
holy shit dude i've been as critical of the defense as anyone but he did get us to 9th overall in his first fucking year. We completely changed schemes so wtf dude? If 9th overall is "shit" for a 1st year coach then expectations are impossibly high here in Cleveland and no one is ever going to make any traction. You don't tear up a 1 year top 10 defense and you sure as fucking shit don't let the coordinator go who got the defense to that position. Yeah we have holes....which makes it all the more impressive that we were still 9th overall. With 2 more years and more drafts/FA signings Horton could have had us in the top 3 and shitting all over the AFC North. But no ur right he's shit.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/seasontype/2
holy shit dude i've been as critical of the defense as anyone but he did get us to 9th overall in his first fucking year. We completely changed schemes so wtf dude? If 9th overall is "shit" for a 1st year coach then expectations are impossibly high here in Cleveland and no one is ever going to make any traction. You don't tear up a 1 year top 10 defense and you sure as fucking shit don't let the coordinator go who got the defense to that position. Yeah we have holes....which makes it all the more impressive that we were still 9th overall. With 2 more years and more drafts/FA signings Horton could have had us in the top 3 and shitting all over the AFC North. But no ur right he's shit.
We also regressed in key categories and our red zone defense was among the worst in the league.
Yards allowed isn't the end all be all of defensive statistics.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense/seasontype/2
holy shit dude i've been as critical of the defense as anyone but he did get us to 9th overall in his first fucking year. We completely changed schemes so wtf dude? If 9th overall is "shit" for a 1st year coach then expectations are impossibly high here in Cleveland and no one is ever going to make any traction. You don't tear up a 1 year top 10 defense and you sure as fucking shit don't let the coordinator go who got the defense to that position. Yeah we have holes....which makes it all the more impressive that we were still 9th overall. With 2 more years and more drafts/FA signings Horton could have had us in the top 3 and shitting all over the AFC North. But no ur right he's shit.
We also regressed in key categories and our red zone defense was among the worst in the league.
Yards allowed isn't the end all be all of defensive statistics.
We also regressed in key categories and our red zone defense was among the worst in the league.
Yards allowed isn't the end all be all of defensive statistics.
i agree we had issues. Definitely earned himself an extended stay though no question.
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fuck horton. yeah he was good in ARIZ but look at the talent level, certainly a better D backfield.
i'm just not a 3-4 guy. you need pass rushers on both ends which spreads the OL out more so the DL players have a better chance of getting to the QB also. i saw nothing inventive about horton's D. one thing he did succeed is at not knowing how to adjust at halftime and let the opposing team march back from their defecits only for us to lose our halftime lead.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
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fuck horton. yeah he was good in ARIZ but look at the talent level, certainly a better D backfield.
i'm just not a 3-4 guy. you need pass rushers on both ends which spreads the OL out more so the DL players have a better chance of getting to the QB also. i saw nothing inventive about horton's D. one thing he did succeed is at not knowing how to adjust at halftime and let the opposing team march back from their defecits only for us to lose our halftime lead.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
fuck horton. yeah he was good in ARIZ but look at the talent level, certainly a better D backfield.
i'm just not a 3-4 guy. you need pass rushers on both ends which spreads the OL out more so the DL players have a better chance of getting to the QB also. i saw nothing inventive about horton's D. one thing he did succeed is at not knowing how to adjust at halftime and let the opposing team march back from their defecits only for us to lose our halftime lead.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
I agree..I think the 3-4 leaves open the middle of the field too much...incidently...ever notice thats how we get continually toasted?...you need Troy Polamalu,a young Brian Urlacher and fast outside linebackers and safeties to run a proper 3-4...and a Monster NT...we have none.
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I give Sheard a pass cause he had to drop weight and change positions, but if Paul Kruger had put out what he was paid to have in terms of pass rush....this defense would have clicked. He turned around his run defense from his time in Blt so he gets a pass this year but if next year he only gets 4 sacks he's got to go. We can't have a guy pulling 8m to get sacks only getting 4-5 sacks on the season. We can find run stoppers for a fraction of his price. I think we have the ability to run the hybrid 3-4 which is what I hope we stay with. I don't think we have the LB'ing corp to run a 4-3 anymore. If DQ gets hurt, than our 4-3 would fall apart...we have no one ready to step in and play the mike in a 4-3. The scheme wasn't the problem...it was the transition AND certain key players were not playing to their contracts. Our best defense looks this year were when we had 3 DT's in the game and either Kruger or Sheard would come up to the line and put their hands in the dirt depending on the call. Or not drop down if run was expected. That's what I hope we continue with. This is where the league is going....3-4/4-3 doesn't matter, it's all based on reacting to what the offense is doing.
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fuck horton. yeah he was good in ARIZ but look at the talent level, certainly a better D backfield.
i'm just not a 3-4 guy. you need pass rushers on both ends which spreads the OL out more so the DL players have a better chance of getting to the QB also. i saw nothing inventive about horton's D. one thing he did succeed is at not knowing how to adjust at halftime and let the opposing team march back from their defecits only for us to lose our halftime lead.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
I love the 3-4... but the history of standing up DEs to fill out your LB corps is not a good one. Certainly our latest example, standing Sheard up, is not the best use of him, but as an experiment at least it was nowhere near Alvin McKinley bad.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
We'd still be running the 3-4 you don't like... but it'd be a fun 3-4.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I love the 3-4... but the history of standing up DEs to fill out your LB corps is not a good one. Certainly our latest example, standing Sheard up, is not the best use of him, but as an experiment at least it was nowhere near Alvin McKinley bad.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
We'd still be running the 3-4 you don't like... but it'd be a fun 3-4.
I love the 3-4... but the history of standing up DEs to fill out your LB corps is not a good one. Certainly our latest example, standing Sheard up, is not the best use of him, but as an experiment at least it was nowhere near Alvin McKinley bad.
We'd still be running the 3-4 you don't like... but it'd be a fun 3-4.
If mangini was still here wed be using old vets that cant get out of thier own fucking way...no thanks...hes a Dufus...
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I love the 3-4... but the history of standing up DEs to fill out your LB corps is not a good one. Certainly our latest example, standing Sheard up, is not the best use of him, but as an experiment at least it was nowhere near Alvin McKinley bad.
We'd still be running the 3-4 you don't like... but it'd be a fun 3-4.
If mangini was still here wed be using old vets that cant get out of thier own fucking way...no thanks...hes a Dufus...
If mangini was still here wed be using old vets that cant get out of thier own fucking way...no thanks...hes a Dufus...
nope, we'd have been sniffing the AFC championship. I guarantee we'd have won the AFC North at least twice by now, for sure this year. The offense Mangini was building was going to steam roll the North for years, he was just missing a qb.
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fuck horton. yeah he was good in ARIZ but look at the talent level, certainly a better D backfield.
i'm just not a 3-4 guy. you need pass rushers on both ends which spreads the OL out more so the DL players have a better chance of getting to the QB also. i saw nothing inventive about horton's D. one thing he did succeed is at not knowing how to adjust at halftime and let the opposing team march back from their defecits only for us to lose our halftime lead.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
fuck horton. yeah he was good in ARIZ but look at the talent level, certainly a better D backfield.
i'm just not a 3-4 guy. you need pass rushers on both ends which spreads the OL out more so the DL players have a better chance of getting to the QB also. i saw nothing inventive about horton's D. one thing he did succeed is at not knowing how to adjust at halftime and let the opposing team march back from their defecits only for us to lose our halftime lead.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
You realize Ryan primarily adheres to the 3-4, right?
Further, in a typical 3-4, the edge rushing OLB's are lined up equally as wide as typical 4-3 defensive ends.
The problem is that Horton's blitzes were I effective. There was a three game span in which Horton called 56 blitzes and yet we recorded zero sacks on those calls. I believe it was weeks 12-14, but I'm not entirely sure.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
In ascending order I would like the next Browns head coach to be Dan Quinn, Rob Ryan or Mike Pettine. I have always favoured a defensive minded HC.
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If mangini was still here wed be using old vets that cant get out of thier own fucking way...no thanks...hes a Dufus...
nope, we'd have been sniffing the AFC championship. I guarantee we'd have won the AFC North at least twice by now, for sure this year. The offense Mangini was building was going to steam roll the North for years, he was just missing a qb.
the QB thing seems to be a common theme...nope, we'd have been sniffing the AFC championship. I guarantee we'd have won the AFC North at least twice by now, for sure this year. The offense Mangini was building was going to steam roll the North for years, he was just missing a qb.
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fuck horton. yeah he was good in ARIZ but look at the talent level, certainly a better D backfield.
i'm just not a 3-4 guy. you need pass rushers on both ends which spreads the OL out more so the DL players have a better chance of getting to the QB also. i saw nothing inventive about horton's D. one thing he did succeed is at not knowing how to adjust at halftime and let the opposing team march back from their defecits only for us to lose our halftime lead.
wonder what the team would be like if mangini and ryan were still here. hmmmmmm..................
You realize Ryan primarily adheres to the 3-4, right?
Further, in a typical 3-4, the edge rushing OLB's are lined up equally as wide as typical 4-3 defensive ends.
The problem is that Horton's blitzes were I effective. There was a three game span in which Horton called 56 blitzes and yet we recorded zero sacks on those calls. I believe it was weeks 12-14, but I'm not entirely sure.
You realize Ryan primarily adheres to the 3-4, right?
Further, in a typical 3-4, the edge rushing OLB's are lined up equally as wide as typical 4-3 defensive ends.
The problem is that Horton's blitzes were I effective. There was a three game span in which Horton called 56 blitzes and yet we recorded zero sacks on those calls. I believe it was weeks 12-14, but I'm not entirely sure.
yes but it is as hybrid as you can get. sometimes he switches to a 4-3 looking scheme. the guy is all over the board which why i think his defenses are always decent given the right personnel.
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