Extending the Olive Branch
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GuNNerGatSKy said:
Absolutely I support the Bills staying in Buffalo!
Diehardbrownsfan is a jackass don't listen to him. When Art "the traitor" Moddell decided to abandon his Cleveland franchise in favor of owning one in Baltimore, the hearts of millions of Browns fans were broken, particularly those of families such as mine that have bled Brown and orange for decades. You are absolutely right that small market teams are important to the league. Small market teams have the most devout, rabid fans without question. I believe the Browns have the most diehard professional sports fans on planet earth.
This Browns fan stands behind you and your team staying in Buffalo!
GO BROWNS AND BILLS!
I didn't say I wanted them to leave, I said I think they will leave. I think Jacksonville will leave also.
I didn't say I wanted them to leave, I said I think they will leave. I think Jacksonville will leave also.
History lesson- if the NFL had given a expansion franchise Baltimore instead of Jacksonville, History would have been a lot different. Modell wouldn't have sold the team to Weaver. If any team is moving I hope its the Jags- talk about front running fans cover the top of the stadium with tarps to get "sell- outs".
Bills Fan- You're going to have to build a new stadium- it sucks, but it will be the price of keeping the Bills. Crap, First Energy is only 15 years old, and we're already sinking another $100 million into it.
-Our best hope for keeping the team in Buffalo ownership-wise is probably the group associated with Jim Kelly, but he's recently been battling with some really bad cancer so who knows how that will turn out. Donald Trump has expressed interest in keeping the Bills here, but that's a steep price to pay. I can't imagine having someone like that owning my team.
I personally would stop watching the NFL completely if the Bills moved. Forever. Though you'll probably get a kick out of the fact that a lot of fellow Bills fans say they'd become Browns fans if they were forced to root for another team. There was just a big thread about it on a Bills forum not to long ago.
Ditto. In the three years the Browns were gone, I might have watched 3 hours of NFL football- it's amazing the other things you can find to do on nice Sunday fall afternoons.
Only keep the Bills in Buffalo if...
1. There is strong fan support
2. It's profitable
3. There is a strong enough market to support it.
Not ever city deserves an NFL team just because they're some-what large. Green Bay, WI is by far the smallest city in the world to have a sports franchise valued at over $1 billion USD, they hold the distinction by meeting all three criteria listed above.
I would honestly like to see cities like San Antonio, Toronto, and Mexico City get teams if I knew it would be a success. Even if that means watching the Bills or Jaguars move to these places.
The only reason the NFL wants a team in LA is it's the #2 TV market in the country- with #2 fans that don't give a shit- with the number of teams they've lost how can you say they deserve another?
#1 Doubtless
#2 BS- the NFL's primary income stream is TV revenue- To the tune of Directv's $4 BILLION, just to do Sunday Ticket, & I'm too lazy to look up what NBC, CBS and FOX shell out- it's way more than that for sure.
#3 See below-
What makes anyone think L.A. deserves a team? Buffalo has had the Bills since their inception. I've seen at least two teams leave L.A. In my lifetime.
You can bet if it was all about money- the NFL would have moved the Packers out of Green Bay- long ago. Browns fans wanted the same deal- but were refused- let the CITY own the team.
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Only keep the Bills in Buffalo if...
1. There is strong fan support
2. It's profitable
3. There is a strong enough market to support it.
Not ever city deserves an NFL team just because they're some-what large. Green Bay, WI is by far the smallest city in the world to have a sports franchise valued at over $1 billion USD, they hold the distinction by meeting all three criteria listed above.
I would honestly like to see cities like San Antonio, Toronto, and Mexico City get teams if I knew it would be a success. Even if that means watching the Bills or Jaguars move to these places.
Only keep the Bills in Buffalo if...
1. There is strong fan support
2. It's profitable
3. There is a strong enough market to support it.
Not ever city deserves an NFL team just because they're some-what large. Green Bay, WI is by far the smallest city in the world to have a sports franchise valued at over $1 billion USD, they hold the distinction by meeting all three criteria listed above.
I would honestly like to see cities like San Antonio, Toronto, and Mexico City get teams if I knew it would be a success. Even if that means watching the Bills or Jaguars move to these places.
Well, the answer is: 1. There is strong fan support in Buffalo, 2. Its an NFL team dumbass...of course its profitable 2. How is #3 not the same as #1.
I agree that not every city deserves an NFL team......and that is why LA does not have one because they have not shown to deserve one.
FYI, Toronto and Mexico City at this point view the NFL as a novelty...same as London. There is absolutely no evidence that they meet any of your criteria for an NFL team. (other than that they are big North American Cities). I think San Antonio could/would probably be a decent NFL market....and I agree that Jax may be one place where the support for the team may not be strong.
Of course, I also believe that if Pittsburgh would have to endure the same kind of bad on field run that the likes of Cleveland and Buffalo had to endure there would be a lot of talk about moving them.
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As long as you support it, you deserve the team.
I will say sometimes that isn't enough. If your new owner starts talking about a new domed stadium, you might want to listen and not let the city politicians screw it up like they did here.
Had we told Art we were goingf to build a new stadium for the Browns, he would have never left.....and that is the bottom line when you sift through all the finger pointing and verbage.
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Only keep the Bills in Buffalo if...
1. There is strong fan support
2. It's profitable
3. There is a strong enough market to support it.
Not ever city deserves an NFL team just because they're some-what large. Green Bay, WI is by far the smallest city in the world to have a sports franchise valued at over $1 billion USD, they hold the distinction by meeting all three criteria listed above.
I would honestly like to see cities like San Antonio, Toronto, and Mexico City get teams if I knew it would be a success. Even if that means watching the Bills or Jaguars move to these places.
suck a nut bowel breath. if that was a criteria for your team to get pulled then you should be worried in pittsburgh. it's not like your fans from across the country are going to pinch in when the rooneys go belly up.
buffalo is sooo much classier than pitt that it isn't even worth mentioning. it's soo cold when they play in november that you don't have to worry about getting mugged at the bodega getting a pack of cigs at midnight the night before....because we all know cockroaches and samoans hate the cold.
i'd gladly drive up and be in any type of rally to support the bills.
and gladly do a drive by in pittsburgh during a rally of support.
suck a nut bowel breath. if that was a criteria for your team to get pulled then you should be worried in pittsburgh. it's not like your fans from across the country are going to pinch in when the rooneys go belly up.
buffalo is sooo much classier than pitt that it isn't even worth mentioning. it's soo cold when they play in november that you don't have to worry about getting mugged at the bodega getting a pack of cigs at midnight the night before....because we all know cockroaches and samoans hate the cold.
i'd gladly drive up and be in any type of rally to support the bills.
and gladly do a drive by in pittsburgh during a rally of support.
Look, if the Bills moving wasn't a possibility in the next few years we wouldn't be talking about it.
Fact is the Buffalo Bills have a low franchise valuation (30 out of 32, Forbes.com) and no disrespect to the fine citizens of Buffalo, NY but the city is not in the best shape right now either. It's possible Buffalo can keep the Bills but it's going to be an uphill battle to accomplish.
And cool it on the "drive by" talk, let's keep this classy.
“Football is a game played with arms, legs and shoulders but mostly from the neck up” -
Only keep the Bills in Buffalo if...
1. There is strong fan support
2. It's profitable
3. There is a strong enough market to support it.
Not ever city deserves an NFL team just because they're some-what large. Green Bay, WI is by far the smallest city in the world to have a sports franchise valued at over $1 billion USD, they hold the distinction by meeting all three criteria listed above.
I would honestly like to see cities like San Antonio, Toronto, and Mexico City get teams if I knew it would be a success. Even if that means watching the Bills or Jaguars move to these places.
Well, the answer is: 1. There is strong fan support in Buffalo, 2. Its an NFL team dumbass...of course its profitable 2. How is #3 not the same as #1.
I agree that not every city deserves an NFL team......and that is why LA does not have one because they have not shown to deserve one.
FYI, Toronto and Mexico City at this point view the NFL as a novelty...same as London. There is absolutely no evidence that they meet any of your criteria for an NFL team. (other than that they are big North American Cities). I think San Antonio could/would probably be a decent NFL market....and I agree that Jax may be one place where the support for the team may not be strong.
Of course, I also believe that if Pittsburgh would have to endure the same kind of bad on field run that the likes of Cleveland and Buffalo had to endure there would be a lot of talk about moving them.
Well, the answer is: 1. There is strong fan support in Buffalo, 2. Its an NFL team dumbass...of course its profitable 2. How is #3 not the same as #1.
I agree that not every city deserves an NFL team......and that is why LA does not have one because they have not shown to deserve one.
FYI, Toronto and Mexico City at this point view the NFL as a novelty...same as London. There is absolutely no evidence that they meet any of your criteria for an NFL team. (other than that they are big North American Cities). I think San Antonio could/would probably be a decent NFL market....and I agree that Jax may be one place where the support for the team may not be strong.
Of course, I also believe that if Pittsburgh would have to endure the same kind of bad on field run that the likes of Cleveland and Buffalo had to endure there would be a lot of talk about moving them.
Fair enough, cities like Toronto and Mexico City would just think of it as a novelty. But I do think San Antonio would embrace a team.
Second, the Pittsburgh Steelers have endured long stretches of bad seasons. So have the Green Bay Packers, not once has there been any talk of these teams relocating. It all goes to my point that there must be something serious going on to make officials in Buffalo, NY believe it's a possibility.
“Football is a game played with arms, legs and shoulders but mostly from the neck up” -
Only keep the Bills in Buffalo if...
1. There is strong fan support
2. It's profitable
3. There is a strong enough market to support it.
Not ever city deserves an NFL team just because they're some-what large. Green Bay, WI is by far the smallest city in the world to have a sports franchise valued at over $1 billion USD, they hold the distinction by meeting all three criteria listed above.
I would honestly like to see cities like San Antonio, Toronto, and Mexico City get teams if I knew it would be a success. Even if that means watching the Bills or Jaguars move to these places.
Big surprise that a stoolers fan would be an asshole about this.
Big surprise that a stoolers fan would be an asshole about this.
No, I'm being honest about this.
If everything was fine in Buffalo then we wouldn't be talking about this....but we are; the Bills leaving is a scary prospect that is alarmingly a possibility.
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Relocating a team in any sport, any city, any country is a shame and should be forbidden unless there are sound reasons. Make more money is NOT a sound reason. Respect for the fan base is the first thing any team or franchise should show. I voted to support the Bills to stay in Buffalo.
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suck a nut bowel breath. if that was a criteria for your team to get pulled then you should be worried in pittsburgh. it's not like your fans from across the country are going to pinch in when the rooneys go belly up.
buffalo is sooo much classier than pitt that it isn't even worth mentioning. it's soo cold when they play in november that you don't have to worry about getting mugged at the bodega getting a pack of cigs at midnight the night before....because we all know cockroaches and samoans hate the cold.
i'd gladly drive up and be in any type of rally to support the bills.
and gladly do a drive by in pittsburgh during a rally of support.
Look, if the Bills moving wasn't a possibility in the next few years we wouldn't be talking about it.
Fact is the Buffalo Bills have a low franchise valuation (30 out of 32, Forbes.com) and no disrespect to the fine citizens of Buffalo, NY but the city is not in the best shape right now either. It's possible Buffalo can keep the Bills but it's going to be an uphill battle to accomplish.
And cool it on the "drive by" talk, let's keep this classy.
Look, if the Bills moving wasn't a possibility in the next few years we wouldn't be talking about it.
Fact is the Buffalo Bills have a low franchise valuation (30 out of 32, Forbes.com) and no disrespect to the fine citizens of Buffalo, NY but the city is not in the best shape right now either. It's possible Buffalo can keep the Bills but it's going to be an uphill battle to accomplish.
And cool it on the "drive by" talk, let's keep this classy.
I don't think anyone denies the "possibility" that it could happen. We simply say A. that it should never happen, and B. that the support for the Bills is absolutely fine from that local fan base. As good as the support the likes of the Browns/Steelers receive.
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Well, the answer is: 1. There is strong fan support in Buffalo, 2. Its an NFL team dumbass...of course its profitable 2. How is #3 not the same as #1.
I agree that not every city deserves an NFL team......and that is why LA does not have one because they have not shown to deserve one.
FYI, Toronto and Mexico City at this point view the NFL as a novelty...same as London. There is absolutely no evidence that they meet any of your criteria for an NFL team. (other than that they are big North American Cities). I think San Antonio could/would probably be a decent NFL market....and I agree that Jax may be one place where the support for the team may not be strong.
Of course, I also believe that if Pittsburgh would have to endure the same kind of bad on field run that the likes of Cleveland and Buffalo had to endure there would be a lot of talk about moving them.
Fair enough, cities like Toronto and Mexico City would just think of it as a novelty. But I do think San Antonio would embrace a team.
Second, the Pittsburgh Steelers have endured long stretches of bad seasons. So have the Green Bay Packers, not once has there been any talk of these teams relocating. It all goes to my point that there must be something serious going on to make officials in Buffalo, NY believe it's a possibility.
Fair enough, cities like Toronto and Mexico City would just think of it as a novelty. But I do think San Antonio would embrace a team.
Second, the Pittsburgh Steelers have endured long stretches of bad seasons. So have the Green Bay Packers, not once has there been any talk of these teams relocating. It all goes to my point that there must be something serious going on to make officials in Buffalo, NY believe it's a possibility.
The Steelers long stretch of losing occurred before the era of teams wanting a stadium with ever bell, whistle and luxury....and you had (have) a home grown loyal ownership group that wasn't going to move that team come hell or high water. (no Art Modell/Robert Irsay type were the Rooneys). As long as that team is in that family's hands they aren't going anywhere. But what if you did have an asshole for an owner? And a long losing stretch? It is not beyond comprehension that a move could be contemplated. I don't think it would ever happen...nor should it ever happen....but, you get a Bill Bidwill/Georgia Frontiere in there...and you never know. What if Dan Rooney had married a Vegas show girl and she became the owner of your team. Oi!
The Packers are city/citizenry owned and no single owner is in place to make foolish decisions. Plus, yes, the Packers are certainly one of the top 5 most ardent fan bases in all the NFL....so there is obviously no issue there.
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@walterwhite said:
The Bills have some of the coolest and rowdiest fans in the NFL.
Buffalo is a football town.
I agree. LA got the Raiders from Oakland, and then lost them to Oakland because of piss poor attendance. Ditto the Rams to St. Louis. They don't give a damn about Football. But they will get a team because it is the second largest market in the USA.
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suck a nut bowel breath. if that was a criteria for your team to get pulled then you should be worried in pittsburgh. it's not like your fans from across the country are going to pinch in when the rooneys go belly up.
buffalo is sooo much classier than pitt that it isn't even worth mentioning. it's soo cold when they play in november that you don't have to worry about getting mugged at the bodega getting a pack of cigs at midnight the night before....because we all know cockroaches and samoans hate the cold.
i'd gladly drive up and be in any type of rally to support the bills.
and gladly do a drive by in pittsburgh during a rally of support.
Look, if the Bills moving wasn't a possibility in the next few years we wouldn't be talking about it.
Fact is the Buffalo Bills have a low franchise valuation (30 out of 32, Forbes.com) and no disrespect to the fine citizens of Buffalo, NY but the city is not in the best shape right now either. It's possible Buffalo can keep the Bills but it's going to be an uphill battle to accomplish.
And cool it on the "drive by" talk, let's keep this classy.
let's keep this classy.
you're in the wrong place my friend.
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Here's what I can tell you WILL happen within the next 10 years or so. With all this 'global expansion' talks in the NFL, there will be a team out of London or a major Canadian city. The question then becomes does this mean a current NFL team get the chopping block to move to this location? My gut feeling is that, fortunately for the Bills, Jacksonville will move to London. I heard there was a verbal agreement to keep the team in Jacksonville but nothing official. The Bills have a rich NFL history and the Jags just don't. I think there's a lot of respect around the league for that organization and Ralph Wilson so I highly doubt a move would occur in the foreesable future.
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Here's what I can tell you WILL happen within the next 10 years or so. With all this 'global expansion' talks in the NFL, there will be a team out of London or a major Canadian city. The question then becomes does this mean a current NFL team get the chopping block to move to this location? My gut feeling is that, fortunately for the Bills, Jacksonville will move to London. I heard there was a verbal agreement to keep the team in Jacksonville but nothing official. The Bills have a rich NFL history and the Jags just don't. I think there's a lot of respect around the league for that organization and Ralph Wilson so I highly doubt a move would occur in the foreesable future.
Here's what I can tell you WILL happen within the next 10 years or so. With all this 'global expansion' talks in the NFL, there will be a team out of London or a major Canadian city. The question then becomes does this mean a current NFL team get the chopping block to move to this location? My gut feeling is that, fortunately for the Bills, Jacksonville will move to London. I heard there was a verbal agreement to keep the team in Jacksonville but nothing official. The Bills have a rich NFL history and the Jags just don't. I think there's a lot of respect around the league for that organization and Ralph Wilson so I highly doubt a move would occur in the foreesable future.
If the NFL wants to move into those markets then just fucking expand to like 36 teams. Plain, simple, easy. I honestly don't think Toronto wants the Bills. They are happy to have them in Buffalo if they want to see them. Maybe the Buffalonians or the Torontonians if any here can tell us what the situation is with the broadcast of games of the Bills into Toronto. But that is all the NFL should be concerned about: getting TV eyeballs on NFL games.
And the one or two London games? Again, a novelty. Having a full time team in that city may not be that big of a deal. Would people really give that big of a crap if New York City were granted a Premier League team? Ridiculous, and a logistics nightmare.
Mexico City/Monterrey may make a little more sense....but, does the NFL want to delve into the morass of corruption and crime that is Mexico? Really?
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Well, the answer is: 1. There is strong fan support in Buffalo, 2. Its an NFL team dumbass...of course its profitable 2. How is #3 not the same as #1.
I agree that not every city deserves an NFL team......and that is why LA does not have one because they have not shown to deserve one.
FYI, Toronto and Mexico City at this point view the NFL as a novelty...same as London. There is absolutely no evidence that they meet any of your criteria for an NFL team. (other than that they are big North American Cities). I think San Antonio could/would probably be a decent NFL market....and I agree that Jax may be one place where the support for the team may not be strong.
Of course, I also believe that if Pittsburgh would have to endure the same kind of bad on field run that the likes of Cleveland and Buffalo had to endure there would be a lot of talk about moving them.
Fair enough, cities like Toronto and Mexico City would just think of it as a novelty. But I do think San Antonio would embrace a team.
Second, the Pittsburgh Steelers have endured long stretches of bad seasons. So have the Green Bay Packers, not once has there been any talk of these teams relocating. It all goes to my point that there must be something serious going on to make officials in Buffalo, NY believe it's a possibility.
Second, the Pittsburgh Steelers have endured long stretches of bad seasons. So have the Green Bay Packers, not once has there been any talk of these teams relocating. It all goes to my point that there must be something serious going on to make officials in Buffalo, NY believe it's a possibility.
That's because the Steelers haven't been put up for sale. The sole reason there's any relocation talk about the Bills is because Ralph Wilson died and his children don't want to keep the franchise.
Nobody has any doubt about the support of the Bills in and around Buffalo. It's simply a matter of greedy businessmen knowing that they could buy the Bills and move them to a bigger city and make more money. But the same could be said about 90% of the teams in the league. It just so happens that the rest of that 90% of the league isn't up for sale. If they were we'd be having the same relocation discussions about them.
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Either way, I'm really glad to see so much support from the Browns' fanbase. You guys rock.
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Second, the Pittsburgh Steelers have endured long stretches of bad seasons. So have the Green Bay Packers, not once has there been any talk of these teams relocating. It all goes to my point that there must be something serious going on to make officials in Buffalo, NY believe it's a possibility.
That's because the Steelers haven't been put up for sale. The sole reason there's any relocation talk about the Bills is because Ralph Wilson died and his children don't want to keep the franchise.
Nobody has any doubt about the support of the Bills in and around Buffalo. It's simply a matter of greedy businessmen knowing that they could buy the Bills and move them to a bigger city and make more money. But the same could be said about 90% of the teams in the league. It just so happens that the rest of that 90% of the league isn't up for sale. If they were we'd be having the same relocation discussions about them.
That's because the Steelers haven't been put up for sale. The sole reason there's any relocation talk about the Bills is because Ralph Wilson died and his children don't want to keep the franchise.
Nobody has any doubt about the support of the Bills in and around Buffalo. It's simply a matter of greedy businessmen knowing that they could buy the Bills and move them to a bigger city and make more money. But the same could be said about 90% of the teams in the league. It just so happens that the rest of that 90% of the league isn't up for sale. If they were we'd be having the same relocation discussions about them.
Aren't the Titans up for sale? (or did we cover that?)
Edit: whether we did or didn't cover it, here is the situation:
Adams 2 Daughters Susan Adams Smith and Amy Adams Hunt are co-chair of the teams board. Bud's grandson by his deceased son will join the board Kenneth Adams IV.
Tommy Smith, husband of Susan Adams Smith is named CEO and is in day to day control of the team, representing it at owners meetings etc.
So, the Titans stay in the Adams Family. And they have a lease in their stadium until 2028.
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No Bud Adams is passing ownership of the Titans to members of his family.
Ralph probably would have passed ownership to his daughter Linda who loved the Bills and was actively involved in the franchise, but unfortunately she passed away in 2009.
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I say this without any proof--strictly MHO:
This is fallout from Modell moving the team and the other owners (Wilson & Rooney being the exceptions)
allowing it to happen.
One of the reasons (maybe the main reason) Baltiwhore was the destination of Modell was because they agreed to build him a new stadium.
And the other owners realized that allowing him to move would give them a huge bargaining chip--one which we've
seen many of them use over the past 19 years. "Build me a new stadium or I'll move the team to a city that will."
How many new stadiums have been built since 1995 with owners using moving the team as a threat? A very effective threat, because
if they can take Cleveland's team away, a city with one of the most rabid fan bases in sports, then they can certainly move a Jacksonville
or Seattle.
Keep the Bills in Buffalo.
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On the stadium issue: There are only like 10 stadiums in the NFL that are older than the Browns "new" stadium:
Green Bay Lambeau Field...but which has had renovations
Kansas City Arrowhead...not sure if renovated
Miami...whatever its currently called
New Orleans Superdome...undergond renovations after Katrina
Buffalo...renovations/new stadium proposed
Atlanta....Georgia Dome was new in 1992 and they are already talking about replacing
Oakland...Oco.com or whatever...definitely needs work....I believe it is the only dual baseball/football field left
Jacksonville....rebuilt/renovated Gator Bowl in 1995
St. Louis...Edward Jones Dome opened 1995
San Diego...Qualcomm Stad. needs work.
Minnesota....new stadium already under construction. Temporary Stadium at Un. of Minn. is only 5 years old.
So, yea, you see it is the teams with the older stadiums that need work that are being threatened to be moved. I personally would wager that if any team went to LA it would be the Raiders or Chargers....both of which at one time were located there. The league would not have to mess around with the division setup if they moved. Both would stay in AFCWest.
I agree that the NFL should say fuck a bunch of Bon Jovi....if it is his proposal to move the team to LA. Hell, go ahead and give it to Trump....he certainly has the wherewithal to build a new stadium.....but what about that "no casino ownership" rule? He could brag that he owns the only NFL team that plays in New York State.
Jax? I don't think that is the team that the NFL wants in LA...though they could change their name to the Los Angeles Leopards and retain pretty much the same logo. That animal they use looks more like a leopard than a Jaguar to me.
London Calling? I think that idea clashes with reality.
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let's keep this classy.
you're in the wrong place my friend.
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