Football Gameplan's 2014 NFL Team Preview - Browns
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another manziel fan that just totally disregards brian hoyer. i mean i agree totally with everything else you say about the team, but just to hand the starting QB job to JF even before TC leads me to believe that you are just another celeb TMZ fed analyst.
if hoyer starts the season then what you just spent soooo much time on producing is incorrect and you are wrong. right?
Wow, you're really upset about Hoyer possibly not starting aren't you? The fact is that, while Hoyer is a decent player, he doesn't have the playmaking skills of Manziel nor does he have the ability to dictate like Manziel does. Why would you delay the inevitable by having Manziel (whom you just spent a 1st round pick on) sitting on the bench when he's a better football player now, and long term over Hoyer? And don't say he can "learn by sitting" because that's pure mythology. You learn by doing. And the good part about Manziel's game is that while the speed of the game will be too much initially, he has above average mobility to help him out as the game slows down.
If Hoyer was 'that' much of the answer, they wouldn't have spent a 1st Rd pick on a QB and would've taken a WR instead.
Wow, you're really upset about Hoyer possibly not starting aren't you? The fact is that, while Hoyer is a decent player, he doesn't have the playmaking skills of Manziel nor does he have the ability to dictate like Manziel does. Why would you delay the inevitable by having Manziel (whom you just spent a 1st round pick on) sitting on the bench when he's a better football player now, and long term over Hoyer? And don't say he can "learn by sitting" because that's pure mythology. You learn by doing. And the good part about Manziel's game is that while the speed of the game will be too much initially, he has above average mobility to help him out as the game slows down.
If Hoyer was 'that' much of the answer, they wouldn't have spent a 1st Rd pick on a QB and would've taken a WR instead.
Yup, we took a CB first- the only reason we even drafted Jf was he happened to fall into our lap. Not every first round qb starts immediately- especially those drafted in the bottom 1\2 of round 1.
BTW, RE: your last "answer" the Packers did have the ultimate answer- in Farve, and that didn't stop them from drafting Rodgers in the 1st round. That may be the best example off the top of my head, but there's a hell of a lot of others. San Fran with Kapernic when they had Smith, Colts when they had Manning. Called planning for the future.
Here's three reasons why Manziel won't start the season EM- Steelers (away), Saints (home), Ravens (home).
Doubtless, Hoyer has his detractors- but there's no sense rushing Manziel out there until after the bye (at least)- unless you want to see him get killed. He's gonna see blitzes against the Steelers he's hardly imagined in his dreams. You have us pegged @ 8-8? Then there's zero sense rushing JF out there- and Pettine has said as much- when he's ready, he's ready.
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1. Really nice job, as always, Emdig, but this time, a few erroneouses !
2. I also gush about the rb's. They will prove that they are worth gushing about, even this early.
3. I don't fault you for mentioning Gordon and the oline... it's obvious and you'd catch garbage' if you hadn't, eh?
4. I do, for the first time, disagree with you about Broadway JM. There's a lot to learn, and with a new system,
all the rest of the offense makes it tough. Meaning, if the Browns had mostly veterans with a years old established system,
it would have been easier to see Manziel being able to step in. But I believe Hoyer starts. He got hurt last year, making
plays, er...the last one, almost succeeding maybe, like Manziel can. He just slid awkwardly. Manziel is going to have to learn
to slide - like many players have said - in the pros, everybody is fast.
5. The Browns drafted JM as an heir apparent to Hoyer. Without JM, the season could go to hell if Hoyer got hurt again.
They saw that on tape.
And, really, yes, they drafted a top blue chippie cb, instead of a qb, high in the first. I think you underestimate Hoyer. But your appraisal overall is still smart. I do wonder... if they hadn't have
drafted Desir...would they be far more unlikely to have Gilbert returning kicks?
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1. Really nice job, as always, Emdig, but this time, a few erroneouses !
2. I also gush about the rb's. They will prove that they are worth gushing about, even this early.
3. I don't fault you for mentioning Gordon and the oline... it's obvious and you'd catch garbage' if you hadn't, eh?
4. I do, for the first time, disagree with you about Broadway JM. There's a lot to learn, and with a new system,
all the rest of the offense makes it tough. Meaning, if the Browns had mostly veterans with a years old established system,
it would have been easier to see Manziel being able to step in. But I believe Hoyer starts. He got hurt last year, making
plays, er...the last one, almost succeeding maybe, like Manziel can. He just slid awkwardly. Manziel is going to have to learn
to slide - like many players have said - in the pros, everybody is fast.
5. The Browns drafted JM as an heir apparent to Hoyer. Without JM, the season could go to hell if Hoyer got hurt again.
They saw that on tape.
And, really, yes, they drafted a top blue chippie cb, instead of a qb, high in the first. I think you underestimate Hoyer. But your appraisal overall is still smart. I do wonder... if they hadn't have
drafted Desir...would they be far more unlikely to have Gilbert returning kicks?
1. Really nice job, as always, Emdig, but this time, a few erroneouses !
2. I also gush about the rb's. They will prove that they are worth gushing about, even this early.
3. I don't fault you for mentioning Gordon and the oline... it's obvious and you'd catch garbage' if you hadn't, eh?
4. I do, for the first time, disagree with you about Broadway JM. There's a lot to learn, and with a new system,
all the rest of the offense makes it tough. Meaning, if the Browns had mostly veterans with a years old established system,
it would have been easier to see Manziel being able to step in. But I believe Hoyer starts. He got hurt last year, making
plays, er...the last one, almost succeeding maybe, like Manziel can. He just slid awkwardly. Manziel is going to have to learn
to slide - like many players have said - in the pros, everybody is fast.
5. The Browns drafted JM as an heir apparent to Hoyer. Without JM, the season could go to hell if Hoyer got hurt again.
They saw that on tape.
And, really, yes, they drafted a top blue chippie cb, instead of a qb, high in the first. I think you underestimate Hoyer. But your appraisal overall is still smart. I do wonder... if they hadn't have
drafted Desir...would they be far more unlikely to have Gilbert returning kicks?
Thanks Califoxwc! The thing about both Hoyer & Manziel is that who would you rather take your 'lumps' with early? The player that has hit his potential or the player with the biggest upside? And it's not a knock on Hoyer…but I see a lot of Frye in him: Good athlete, good kid, competes hard but is limited in his growth potential. IMO, it's better to take those lumps with the rookie that you know will get better with playing time. I also think the bolded is even more of a reason to start Manziel…if he can't get out of his own way, you have a capable vet that has been used to playing on 'short notice' so it gives you as a team that 'fallback' option.
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1. Really nice job, as always, Emdig, but this time, a few erroneouses !
2. I also gush about the rb's. They will prove that they are worth gushing about, even this early.
3. I don't fault you for mentioning Gordon and the oline... it's obvious and you'd catch garbage' if you hadn't, eh?
4. I do, for the first time, disagree with you about Broadway JM. There's a lot to learn, and with a new system,
all the rest of the offense makes it tough. Meaning, if the Browns had mostly veterans with a years old established system,
it would have been easier to see Manziel being able to step in. But I believe Hoyer starts. He got hurt last year, making
plays, er...the last one, almost succeeding maybe, like Manziel can. He just slid awkwardly. Manziel is going to have to learn
to slide - like many players have said - in the pros, everybody is fast.
5. The Browns drafted JM as an heir apparent to Hoyer. Without JM, the season could go to hell if Hoyer got hurt again.
They saw that on tape.
And, really, yes, they drafted a top blue chippie cb, instead of a qb, high in the first. I think you underestimate Hoyer. But your appraisal overall is still smart. I do wonder... if they hadn't have
drafted Desir...would they be far more unlikely to have Gilbert returning kicks?
Thanks Califoxwc! The thing about both Hoyer & Manziel is that who would you rather take your 'lumps' with early? The player that has hit his potential or the player with the biggest upside? And it's not a knock on Hoyer…but I see a lot of Frye in him: Good athlete, good kid, competes hard but is limited in his growth potential. IMO, it's better to take those lumps with the rookie that you know will get better with playing time. I also think the bolded is even more of a reason to start Manziel…if he can't get out of his own way, you have a capable vet that has been used to playing on 'short notice' so it gives you as a team that 'fallback' option.
Thanks Califoxwc! The thing about both Hoyer & Manziel is that who would you rather take your 'lumps' with early? The player that has hit his potential or the player with the biggest upside? And it's not a knock on Hoyerbut I see a lot of Frye in him: Good athlete, good kid, competes hard but is limited in his growth potential. IMO, it's better to take those lumps with the rookie that you know will get better with playing time. I also think the bolded is even more of a reason to start Manzielif he can't get out of his own way, you have a capable vet that has been used to playing on 'short notice' so it gives you as a team that 'fallback' option.
If I am Pettine, a defensive minded coach, I want a game manager. Who is more likely to fill that bill? An exciting rookie who is competitiveness defined? Or a vet who won a shoot out for one of his two wins in 2013 and played error free in a defensive struggle for his other win? I take the latter, the vet who has achieved his potential.
Frye is perhaps the one QB comparison for Hoyer that I do not remember seeing yet... and I still do not see it. Charlie, as lovable as he was, was limited between the ears as has been the case with most of our young guns. Hoyer looks like he has "gotten it"... at least he did in 2 games plus a piece of a third. Could it be that he "got it" understudying Brady at NE?
Folks who have flooded this forum, ones who know and love JM, have concerns about how he would handle sitting. Not sure how they'd feel JM would handle benching, but I'd bet "not well".
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I think everybody sees JM as a very smart football kid, but in this division, you
could get JM hurt. The first time Troy Pamperiofirpomumu launches his stupid self at
JM while he's turning to jitterbug away from pressure on one side?
I'd rather go with Hoyer who knows pro defenses and pro quarterbacking. The upside is,
JM can be watching, at least for a while.
Emdiggy - since everybody knows that the Browns play the Steelers in their first and fifth
game of the season, and the stupid stinkin ratbirds the third game....
I think Hoyer is far more ready to start this season than JM has any chance of being ready.
But, whatever the Browns decide, will be the smart thing. This staff is pretty clever all around.
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taking lumps would not be a preferred term if i was going to compare QBs big or small. hoyer lumped himself. during his short term as starting QB for the browns i have yet to see him get LUMPED. or squashed or leveled.
same for manziel.
god help us all if that does happen to either one. i think hoyer as a vet knowing people want to take off QBs' heads might just out do JF in that respect.
just my opinion.
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All in all, a pretty solid take on the team considering training camp hasn't even started yet. I think we'll see enough of both Hoyer and JF to determine who has the upper hand. It's good to know we have both for this year at least. I do feel the most important position and the biggest unknown is the coaching staff, and we really won't get a good look at that until the regular season actually starts.
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All in all, a pretty solid take on the team considering training camp hasn't even started yet. I think we'll see enough of both Hoyer and JF to determine who has the upper hand. It's good to know we have both for this year at least. I do feel the most important position and the biggest unknown is the coaching staff, and we really won't get a good look at that until the regular season actually starts.
All in all, a pretty solid take on the team considering training camp hasn't even started yet. I think we'll see enough of both Hoyer and JF to determine who has the upper hand. It's good to know we have both for this year at least. I do feel the most important position and the biggest unknown is the coaching staff, and we really won't get a good look at that until the regular season actually starts.
yeah but you just can't say manziel is the starter and he can electrify the offense when he doesn't even know how to read defenses yet or know the offensive playbook.
that is ridiculous.
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The way I see it is the JFF is right now a hot dog that needs to be put on the grill for a bit, and have some condiments or seasoning first.
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All in all, a pretty solid take on the team considering training camp hasn't even started yet. I think we'll see enough of both Hoyer and JF to determine who has the upper hand. It's good to know we have both for this year at least. I do feel the most important position and the biggest unknown is the coaching staff, and we really won't get a good look at that until the regular season actually starts.
yeah but you just can't say manziel is the starter and he can electrify the offense when he doesn't even know how to read defenses yet or know the offensive playbook.
that is ridiculous.
yeah but you just can't say manziel is the starter and he can electrify the offense when he doesn't even know how to read defenses yet or know the offensive playbook.
that is ridiculous.
Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
I am in charge of me! www.footballgameplan.com www.youtube.com/footballgameplan -
yeah but you just can't say manziel is the starter and he can electrify the offense when he doesn't even know how to read defenses yet or know the offensive playbook.
that is ridiculous.
Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
Ditto.
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yeah but you just can't say manziel is the starter and he can electrify the offense when he doesn't even know how to read defenses yet or know the offensive playbook.
that is ridiculous.
Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
I agree EM, but you have to understand many of these guys don't understand modern football and expect some flat footed Johnny Unitas to line up each week.
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Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
I agree EM, but you have to understand many of these guys don't understand modern football and expect some flat footed Johnny Unitas to line up each week.
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yeah thanks peen you grand gem of a football genius....
like i said in my original post if you would have read it is that manziel is not ready to step on the field yet.
yeah sure he might be christ off his crutch when he learns how to read a defense (do it in college much?). i also stated that hoyer has more above the neck than manziel and won't take that extra step that will get manziel killed. yes i said it. get manziel wiped off the ground like a bug on my fuggin windshield.
but let's see how long he lasts because you blowhards think he can just walk-on and be the next rg3. oh btw, how's that working out for him (robert griffin the 3rd) Em?
exactly.
there's your modern football.
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yeah thanks peen you grand gem of a football genius....
like i said in my original post if you would have read it is that manziel is not ready to step on the field yet.
yeah sure he might be christ off his crutch when he learns how to read a defense (do it in college much?). i also stated that hoyer has more above the neck than manziel and won't take that extra step that will get manziel killed. yes i said it. get manziel wiped off the ground like a bug on my fuggin windshield.
but let's see how long he lasts because you blowhards think he can just walk-on and be the next rg3. oh btw, how's that working out for him (robert griffin the 3rd) Em?
exactly.
there's your modern football.
yeah thanks peen you grand gem of a football genius....
like i said in my original post if you would have read it is that manziel is not ready to step on the field yet.
yeah sure he might be christ off his crutch when he learns how to read a defense (do it in college much?). i also stated that hoyer has more above the neck than manziel and won't take that extra step that will get manziel killed. yes i said it. get manziel wiped off the ground like a bug on my fuggin windshield.
but let's see how long he lasts because you blowhards think he can just walk-on and be the next rg3. oh btw, how's that working out for him (robert griffin the 3rd) Em?
exactly.
there's your modern football.
The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.
And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.
I am in charge of me! www.footballgameplan.com www.youtube.com/footballgameplan -
yeah thanks peen you grand gem of a football genius....
like i said in my original post if you would have read it is that manziel is not ready to step on the field yet.
yeah sure he might be christ off his crutch when he learns how to read a defense (do it in college much?). i also stated that hoyer has more above the neck than manziel and won't take that extra step that will get manziel killed. yes i said it. get manziel wiped off the ground like a bug on my fuggin windshield.
but let's see how long he lasts because you blowhards think he can just walk-on and be the next rg3. oh btw, how's that working out for him (robert griffin the 3rd) Em?
exactly.
there's your modern football.
The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.
And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.
The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.
And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.
I'm a Griffin fan, but he had an 82 rating and a 3-10 record last year, so I'm not sure that it it is a Fact that he played quite well.
Z
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yeah thanks peen you grand gem of a football genius....
like i said in my original post if you would have read it is that manziel is not ready to step on the field yet.
yeah sure he might be christ off his crutch when he learns how to read a defense (do it in college much?). i also stated that hoyer has more above the neck than manziel and won't take that extra step that will get manziel killed. yes i said it. get manziel wiped off the ground like a bug on my fuggin windshield.
but let's see how long he lasts because you blowhards think he can just walk-on and be the next rg3. oh btw, how's that working out for him (robert griffin the 3rd) Em?
exactly.
there's your modern football.
The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.
And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.
He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young.
if you think about that statement right there then........wooh. not much of an analyst.
russell wilson is not a 'running' qb. when things break down he runs to the sidelines to get the first down. he's not the 'uh-oh...no wrs open i'm going to run up the middle and all around and go for 50 yards'. manziel will not last a year doing that in the NFL.
vince young, really?
your legitimacy just flew right out the window along with his career..
ask mike vick how he feels getting pummelled into the turf every season and then having to sit on the bench watching his career 'run away' from him like his talent.
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RGIII went to a team that was in their second or third year.
Not a first year coach, new system situation.
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yeah but you just can't say manziel is the starter and he can electrify the offense when he doesn't even know how to read defenses yet or know the offensive playbook.
that is ridiculous.
Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
Yes you can because of his running ability. Just the THREAT alone will keep that backside defender at home, thus allowing an extra OL to get to the second level which THEN makes the running game more effective. You don't get that type of dictation with Hoyer. And like I mentioned in the video, Manziel won't see a lot of Man or blitzes because of his threat to run. You see the advantage the offense has by having a guy like that in the pocket?
Manziel actually reading a defense at A&M? I saw plenty of jump balls to Evans, or scrambling until someone broke wide open. He won't have that luxury in the NFL.
Zombo said:
Because the two greatest QBs in modern football, Manning and Brady, are speed demons?
Z
hard to believe, Z.
The difference btw he and RG3 is that RG3, like Vick, is a reckless runner. Manziel is not 'as' reckless of a runner. He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young. They don't take as many shots as the aforementioned guys do. Reading a defense is reading a defense if you're a QB. It doesn't matter if you're an option QB, zone read, spread, pro-style-PA or west coast…there's reads that are involved and it's your job to make decisions & keep the offense on pace. Did he do that at Texas A&M? Yes.
And didn't RG3 lead the Redskins to the playoffs in his 1st season? And despite coming back from injury last year, he played quite well. Those are two facts.
Come on EM- everyone from Bill Parcells on down has concerns about Manziel's potential injury risk. Not as reckless? If Griffin is a 10, Manziel is at least an 8 on that scale. all he needs is one of those ballerina twists at the wrong time with a linebacker coming at him, it's bye-bye ACL.
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He actually runs under more control ala Russell Wilson & Vince Young.
if you think about that statement right there then........wooh. not much of an analyst.
russell wilson is not a 'running' qb. when things break down he runs to the sidelines to get the first down. he's not the 'uh-oh...no wrs open i'm going to run up the middle and all around and go for 50 yards'. manziel will not last a year doing that in the NFL.
vince young, really?
your legitimacy just flew right out the window along with his career..
ask mike vick how he feels getting pummelled into the turf every season and then having to sit on the bench watching his career 'run away' from him like his talent.
if you think about that statement right there then........wooh. not much of an analyst.
russell wilson is not a 'running' qb. when things break down he runs to the sidelines to get the first down. he's not the 'uh-oh...no wrs open i'm going to run up the middle and all around and go for 50 yards'. manziel will not last a year doing that in the NFL.
vince young, really?
your legitimacy just flew right out the window along with his career..
ask mike vick how he feels getting pummelled into the turf every season and then having to sit on the bench watching his career 'run away' from him like his talent.
Your comprehension skills leave me shaking my head.
Not once did I mention that Russell Wilson was a 'running QB'
Vick gets blasted by a defender every game…you can probably count on 2 fingers the times Manziel got 'blasted' at A&M
Oh, and lets act like Vince Young didn't have a 31-19 record as an NFL starter winning rookie of the year honors, taking a team to the playoffs that hasn't sniffed it since he left, while saving Jeff Fisher's job TWICE…all for a coach that didn't want him.
But don't let facts get in the way.
I am in charge of me! www.footballgameplan.com www.youtube.com/footballgameplan
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