Utopia
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Just to be clear here, I'm not saying this is the perfect vision of the future. I'm saying that with technology advances making more people redundant, we seem to be heading towards a society where there will be high unemployment, with little demands for low-skilled jobs, and I'm just wondering what the pitfalls would be.
Everyone seems to be in agreement that entertaining the great unwashed is going to be the biggest problem - so do we need to find 'jobs' that need doing? Do we halt the advances of technology to keep people in jobs?
People will still want to travel the world, so they'll still need hotels and things, so people will still need to pay for things, so they'll still need an income. Or do they get 'travel credits' that allow them to travel wherever they like within a budget?
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Sure people would want to do a lot of shit, Chris! Personally I'd like to fuck Paula Abdul. Of course if 85 percent or more of the population is on the dole then I guess what they want is going to be beyond their means.
WSS
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Well, I like to travel, and I spend my money and free time on travelling - I may even make it to Ohio one day - and currently I'm able to do that. I'm not convinced by your ability to knock boots with paula abdul. Or kereem abdul jabaar. Or even abdul from the shop.
So, given that I currently have a legitimate ability to travel, and that ability might be taken away by advances in technology, should we hold back technology? Or maybe those travelling vouchers, or perhaps I get some token job that pays me some salary that I can spend on discretionary things?
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Where will you get that job chris? We don't need humans anymore remember? And who will pay for your traverage voucher?
Yeah you and I like to spend our money that we earn to buy stuff we like. When we don't work anymore....?
I completely understand that everybody is going to want more than the guy sitting next to them.
just because you think it would be utopia doesnt change human nature.
sure everybody loves free shit but everybody also wants to be better then the next guy. Nobody wants to be equals.
WSS
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Perhaps I should put the name of the thread in quotations to make it clear that this isn't really my vision of utopia.
And to be honest, I'm not so materialistic - I prefer travelling, as I said, over buying a new car or bigger house.
But that's the question, if technology makes us all redundant, shouldn't we have all the extra free time to do exactly what we want?
As for who pays - if we ever get to the point where intercontinental travel can be achieved quickly by vehicles using renewable energy then the transportation costs are negated by more efficient energy collecting. Then you just have the hotel and stuff to pay for.
I hope you realise I'm, just spitballing here, thinking about the practicalities of a future that I'll never see.
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I completely understand what you're doing pal. I'm just tossing some shit back.
Materialism or not traveling the world is something of a luxury that a lot of people would like to indulge in. For instance, we were just looking at a Viking River cruise. Didn't get too deeply into it but close to 4000 bucks and I'm not sure if that's each. I also just got an estimate for swimming pool which comes in around 30 K and doesn't include concrete electric or gas lines.
But if 10 or 15 percent of the people are working to provide all the free shit I'd imagine they are being paid pretty well. How much do you think you would need to tax them to provide luxuries for the 85% of slugs with no visible means of support? That's just something you need to figure out.
WSS
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I completely understand what you're doing pal. I'm just tossing some shit back.
Materialism or not traveling the world is something of a luxury that a lot of people would like to indulge in. For instance, we were just looking at a Viking River cruise. Didn't get too deeply into it but close to 4000 bucks and I'm not sure if that's each. I also just got an estimate for swimming pool which comes in around 30 K and doesn't include concrete electric or gas lines.
But if 10 or 15 percent of the people are working to provide all the free shit I'd imagine they are being paid pretty well. How much do you think you would need to tax them to provide luxuries for the 85% of slugs with no visible means of support? That's just something you need to figure out.
WSS
I completely understand what you're doing pal. I'm just tossing some shit back.
Materialism or not traveling the world is something of a luxury that a lot of people would like to indulge in. For instance, we were just looking at a Viking River cruise. Didn't get too deeply into it but close to 4000 bucks and I'm not sure if that's each. I also just got an estimate for swimming pool which comes in around 30 K and doesn't include concrete electric or gas lines.
But if 10 or 15 percent of the people are working to provide all the free shit I'd imagine they are being paid pretty well. How much do you think you would need to tax them to provide luxuries for the 85% of slugs with no visible means of support? That's just something you need to figure out.
WSS
At that point, the value of money is meaningless. Pay them more, tax them more, you basically just keep the money you need and give them a little of the remainder.
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I completely understand what you're doing pal. I'm just tossing some shit back.
Materialism or not traveling the world is something of a luxury that a lot of people would like to indulge in. For instance, we were just looking at a Viking River cruise. Didn't get too deeply into it but close to 4000 bucks and I'm not sure if that's each. I also just got an estimate for swimming pool which comes in around 30 K and doesn't include concrete electric or gas lines.
But if 10 or 15 percent of the people are working to provide all the free shit I'd imagine they are being paid pretty well. How much do you think you would need to tax them to provide luxuries for the 85% of slugs with no visible means of support? That's just something you need to figure out.
WSS
At that point, the value of money is meaningless. Pay them more, tax them more, you basically just keep the money you need and give them a little of the remainder.
At that point, the value of money is meaningless. Pay them more, tax them more, you basically just keep the money you need and give them a little of the remainder.
sure but I need a number. If you plan to provide luxury for 85% of non working Americans then the percent of tax taken from the 15 that are going to be really really vital to society will have to be huge. And if 15 percent of society provides everything do you think they will be happy making a similar amount to the deadbeats? I sincerely doubt it.
WSS
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Then we need to make sure that everybody contributes at some level, I'm sure plenty of people can be trained to be mechanics fixing the future robot cars. Then they work 5 hours a week for $10k, for example, plus food/travel/health/whatever benefits.
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Then we need to make sure that everybody contributes at some level, I'm sure plenty of people can be trained to be mechanics fixing the future robot cars. Then they work 5 hours a week for $10k, for example, plus food/travel/health/whatever benefits.
Then we need to make sure that everybody contributes at some level, I'm sure plenty of people can be trained to be mechanics fixing the future robot cars. Then they work 5 hours a week for $10k, for example, plus food/travel/health/whatever benefits.
Oh I guess you could actually force people to work. I suppose one job that would be pretty universal would be [insert euphemism for Gestapo here] to enforce that.
Oh and to force them to go to school to learn to service the robots.
This is looking better and better as the discussion goes on...
WSS
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So people, what does your utopia look like? How do you envisage a perfect world?
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As living creatures we are imperfect so there will never be a Utopia.
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In a perfect world instead of regional factions fighting over tracts of land we would be just humans striving to expand our influence into the universe. Anyone besides me ever play mass effect? Basically we should be the systems alliance.
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So people, what does your utopia look like? How do you envisage a perfect world?
this thread makes me think of my favorite movie, Vanilla Sky.
What is happiness to you, David?
The sweet is not as sweet without the bitter.
Utopia is a mindset, People think happiness is an achievement but its a choice.
To go past this becomes scary
You can't organize and fix the world. People are monkeys and sometimes they throw their own shit.
ok, i need sleep.
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Tx! I loved Vanilla Sky!
WSS
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OK, let me rephrase. When technology has advanced so much that we have driverless cars, self-sustaining farms and full clean energy, and jobs are not really something that everyone has anymore, would has to happen for the world to 'work' - no rioting from boredom or lack of possibilities etc.
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Space exploration. Am I the only one who thinks this is our only future?
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind...
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