Hoyer named starting QB
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It's what trolls do
Yeah, but it's a valid question in this case.. just does not need to be in every thread...
Excellent point. Perhaps he should make some adjustments.
My first thought was a stick and a box of dirt to draw in...
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Glad Hoyer got the nod, puts us in the best position to win game 1.
However I dont think alot of you are watching the same practice/preseason footage. Instead of going into a 3 page rant. Know that:
-Hoyer got the job simply because he can get the huddle to the line faster and more accurately (right now). He deserves that and its our best chance to win.
-Hoyer played better in practice. Johnny played BETTER in preason. Yes he got blitzed. No he didnt take weeden sacks. Yes he tried to throw hot receiver. Offense looks confused as a whole.
-Johnny isnt a bust... Yet (Personally, im pretty optimistic)He played pretty well for what he was expected to do. I think hes smart and has a good arm from what ive seen. He needs time to get it together, along with everyone else on the O.
-I expect if things dont go well (1-2 before bye or worse) we will see johnny week 5 or before the jags game when he should be able to competently call plays.
I just expect better thoughts/views out of this board sometimes instead of "yeah johnny clipboard bitch!" or "Hoyer looked so much better!. Watch the games, i dont want debate football with that guy who only watches the superbowl every year. Ya know?
Glad Hoyer got the nod, puts us in the best position to win game 1.
However I dont think alot of you are watching the same practice/preseason footage. Instead of going into a 3 page rant. Know that:
-Hoyer got the job simply because he can get the huddle to the line faster and more accurately (right now). He deserves that and its our best chance to win.
-Hoyer played better in practice. Johnny played BETTER in preason. Yes he got blitzed. No he didnt take weeden sacks. Yes he tried to throw hot receiver. Offense looks confused as a whole.
Watch the games, i dont want debate football with that guy who only watches the superbowl every year. Ya know?
First, there's practice footage?
Agree with a lot of what you said, but not that it was as simple as time-to-the-line. I also disagree that JM played "better" in preseason.
JM made very few reads let alone correct ones and threw the ball poorly. He is still looking for the open guy, occasionally a second open guy. The main difference was that if he stopped at one (Detroit) and took off he'd post some yardage, but if he looked for a second (WSH), then the D ate him up. He simply is not ready...
BH consistently made the proper reads, but threw poorly. He was the "better" option now just as he was in week 3 last year...
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I view these PRESEASON performances purely through the prism of how the QB, or any player, does their job. I put much less emphasis on the result of any play versus the execution of the play. There's so many moving parts in preseason that its hard to make direct comparisons.
Vanilla play calling goes hand in hand with coaches calling plays to check a situation. Creating adversity if you will....
Bubble players constantly in and out of the lineups....
Scrambles put up a better stat line for sure....but that also tells the tale of how stats lie.
Hoyers mid and long range accuracy was piss poor....but he was making the right read, getting the ball out on time, and into a catchable window. He simply missed the throws. That can be cured by reps. While concerning, it demonstrates that execution of a given play is greatly dependent on first and foremost, understanding of the play relative to the defensive scheme. Its impossible to consistently make good decisions if one lacks the knowledge and understanding to process the information at hand to reach a good decision. So while Boyer does not possess the natural athletic gifts of scrambles, he has probably the most important gift to succeeding at the NFL level....the understanding. Without that part, succeeding is so much more difficult. What remains to be seen is whether he can turn understanding into points and wins.
Conversely....the Lil guy just doesn't know what to do with his athleticism. I'll be honest here....while even the stanchest manzealots are cringing an blaming the coaches, I'm become ever more a fan. I like what he says since TC has started. He's much smarter than I thought. I don't think it'll be long before the patterns in the playbook click, the defenses begin to look similar, and movements become predictable. I'm pretty excited to see him if it all comes together for him. I actually think it will....so step away from the ledge at least until next season. Fuck man....weeden got 2 seasons.....right?
I think pettiness has done an admirable job considering the coverage around the browns for a first year HC. He's gonna make mistakes, either we accept that people are fallible and deserve some time to correct those mistakes, or we invite the revolving door that been this FO and team. Chill the fuck out, stop being so knee jerk and fickle and watch what unfolds.
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Word Chico.
I have been cracking the fuck up reading the board today. The majority of the hardcore, kneel down manzealots are hiding in their corners while the more reasonable individuals of our newly acquired manziel fans are beginning to come around and see the sense in Pettines decision.
I agree with the majority of you guys in that they both have EXECUTED very poorly in the first two games.
As has been said, Hoyer continues to demonstrate a thorough understanding of mental quarterbacking such as making great reads and progressions with above average pocket presence. Where he has faltered is with EXECUTING and ACTING on his understanding with accurate throws and loose play. He seems to play very tense to me. He sees the window, gets the ball out very fast, but the throws have been mostly poor to serviceable at best. That indicates a high level of tension and nerves in my opinion. Let's see if he relaxes and returns to his surgical game management we glimpsed in two and a quarter games last year.
Manziel on the other hand has demonstrated, in my opinion, the athletic ability to EXECUTE and PERFORM at high level. What he has lacked happens to be Hoyer s greatest strength: a superb understanding of the mental mechanics to be an efficient and productive starting QB in the NFL. Just like Hoyer s issues can be remedied with a commitment of all first team reps and repetition solely to himself and the removal of what I have termed the "manziel effect' hanging so close over his head, Johnnys woes can cured with a heavy, heavy dose of film and playbook study and extra work with our QB coach Dowell Loggains on his mechanics and maintaining his poise under pressure.
If only we can perform some sort of mind meld with Hoyer and Johnny: infuse Hoyer s superb understanding of the mental aspect with Johnnys supreme athletic abilities and instincts and wah lah we have a real Johnny Cleveland poised to take us to the super bowl.
My only suggestion for all of us is supreme patience. And no, that does not mean tolerate another dumpster fire of a fucking season this year. We just need to be logical creatures while this process plays out. I know that's hard to do as Neanderthal football nuts, but we must persevere.
Anyways, GO BROWNS! FUCK SHITSBURGH! FUCK THE RATBIRDS! AND FUCK THE ORANGE PUSSY CATS ????
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i guess going 3 and out on almost every possession and never scoring a touchdown is what passes for "earning it" in cleveland....but the homey's going to start, so all's good....
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Glad Hoyer got the nod, puts us in the best position to win game 1.
However I dont think alot of you are watching the same practice/preseason footage. Instead of going into a 3 page rant. Know that:
-Hoyer got the job simply because he can get the huddle to the line faster and more accurately (right now). He deserves that and its our best chance to win.
-Hoyer played better in practice. Johnny played BETTER in preason. Yes he got blitzed. No he didnt take weeden sacks. Yes he tried to throw hot receiver. Offense looks confused as a whole.
-Johnny isnt a bust... Yet (Personally, im pretty optimistic)He played pretty well for what he was expected to do. I think hes smart and has a good arm from what ive seen. He needs time to get it together, along with everyone else on the O.
-I expect if things dont go well (1-2 before bye or worse) we will see johnny week 5 or before the jags game when he should be able to competently call plays.
I just expect better thoughts/views out of this board sometimes instead of "yeah johnny clipboard bitch!" or "Hoyer looked so much better!. Watch the games, i dont want debate football with that guy who only watches the superbowl every year. Ya know?
Glad Hoyer got the nod, puts us in the best position to win game 1.
However I dont think alot of you are watching the same practice/preseason footage. Instead of going into a 3 page rant. Know that:
-Hoyer got the job simply because he can get the huddle to the line faster and more accurately (right now). He deserves that and its our best chance to win.
-Hoyer played better in practice. Johnny played BETTER in preason. Yes he got blitzed. No he didnt take weeden sacks. Yes he tried to throw hot receiver. Offense looks confused as a whole.
-Johnny isnt a bust... Yet (Personally, im pretty optimistic)He played pretty well for what he was expected to do. I think hes smart and has a good arm from what ive seen. He needs time to get it together, along with everyone else on the O.
-I expect if things dont go well (1-2 before bye or worse) we will see johnny week 5 or before the jags game when he should be able to competently call plays.
I just expect better thoughts/views out of this board sometimes instead of "yeah johnny clipboard bitch!" or "Hoyer looked so much better!. Watch the games, i dont want debate football with that guy who only watches the superbowl every year. Ya know?
well if you only talk to Super Bowl fans, you sure won't talk to anyone connected to the browns....
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Lol @ Browns fans. You guys are so short sighted. I'm not going anywhere. Have fun taking pictures next to my statue in 10 years.
Lol @ Browns fans. You guys are so short sighted. I'm not going anywhere. Have fun taking pictures next to my statue in 10 years.
How did it take this long for this handle to come up? I'm disappointed it's taken this long.
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Glad Hoyer got the nod, puts us in the best position to win game 1.
However I dont think alot of you are watching the same practice/preseason footage. Instead of going into a 3 page rant. Know that:
-Hoyer got the job simply because he can get the huddle to the line faster and more accurately (right now). He deserves that and its our best chance to win.
-Hoyer played better in practice. Johnny played BETTER in preason. Yes he got blitzed. No he didnt take weeden sacks. Yes he tried to throw hot receiver. Offense looks confused as a whole.
-Johnny isnt a bust... Yet (Personally, im pretty optimistic)He played pretty well for what he was expected to do. I think hes smart and has a good arm from what ive seen. He needs time to get it together, along with everyone else on the O.
-I expect if things dont go well (1-2 before bye or worse) we will see johnny week 5 or before the jags game when he should be able to competently call plays.
I just expect better thoughts/views out of this board sometimes instead of "yeah johnny clipboard bitch!" or "Hoyer looked so much better!. Watch the games, i dont want debate football with that guy who only watches the superbowl every year. Ya know?
well if you only talk to Super Bowl fans, you sure won't talk to anyone connected to the browns....
-
Glad Hoyer got the nod, puts us in the best position to win game 1.
However I dont think alot of you are watching the same practice/preseason footage. Instead of going into a 3 page rant. Know that:
-Hoyer got the job simply because he can get the huddle to the line faster and more accurately (right now). He deserves that and its our best chance to win.
-Hoyer played better in practice. Johnny played BETTER in preason. Yes he got blitzed. No he didnt take weeden sacks. Yes he tried to throw hot receiver. Offense looks confused as a whole.
-Johnny isnt a bust... Yet (Personally, im pretty optimistic)He played pretty well for what he was expected to do. I think hes smart and has a good arm from what ive seen. He needs time to get it together, along with everyone else on the O.
-I expect if things dont go well (1-2 before bye or worse) we will see johnny week 5 or before the jags game when he should be able to competently call plays.
I just expect better thoughts/views out of this board sometimes instead of "yeah johnny clipboard bitch!" or "Hoyer looked so much better!. Watch the games, i dont want debate football with that guy who only watches the superbowl every year. Ya know?
well if you only talk to Super Bowl fans, you sure won't talk to anyone connected to the browns....
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Choco, very well put. You too Gunner. JayJay, you're repeating yourself.
I think Manziel is a visual learner, meaning it sinks in when what he sees what's happening on the field just like he sees it in his mind. He's made a comment or two when asked about learning the playbook that led me to think that. Talked about "seeing" the play.
The plus side to all that is that it's just a matter of reps before he gets it.
I'm also starting to think that the whole scrambling thing is like a light switch to him, and he just needs to work on when he hits the switch. Been hitting it a little too early l think in the preseason.
Again it's nothing that reps and trust in what his teammates can and can't do won't fix.
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Thanks for the great thoughts chico, gunner and tour. That is more of what i expected when I logged on today. Thats all i was asking for.
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Happy Hoyer is starting! I think the competition fucked both him and mazel! It gave neither a chance to get a rhythm with the line or receivers . I blame the media and all the dumb fucks that forget every QB we have had since Couch. I hope JF learns and does the team right, would love to replace my TIM COUCH jersey with a QB that takes the Browns to the play offs. But I'm not holding my breath or getting on my knees for the next so called savior!
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what ever happened to the "you got to earn it" bullshit pettine was blowing up our ass..."3 and out" hoyer didn't earn anything but the bench....but the homey is starting.....pettine is an idiot with no experience with an offense...that's what's painfully obvious.....i guess if you grew up in cleveland, you've "earned it"....pathetic....
jayjay said:
what ever happened to the "you got to earn it" bullshit pettine was blowing up our ass..."3 and out" hoyer didn't earn anything but the bench....but the homey is starting.....pettine is an idiot with no experience with an offense...that's what's painfully obvious.....i guess if you grew up in cleveland, you've "earned it"....pathetic....
Yup, we've been hearing this for the past three months from the Man-zealots JFF is the best thing to hit the NFL since face masks. Guess what? If Manziel had posted a 99 qbr (like Bortles) he would be the starting quarterback for the Browns. He didn't, and he isn't.
jayjay said:
the best move for the browns would be to start rex grossman, and continue to develop manziel and shaw....i'd cut home town hoyer....he's played like shit....
And Grossman hasn't, on a much bigger sample size? Care to take a look at his stats before you stick your foot in your mouth again? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrosRe00.htm Listen up- Rex was brought here for one reason he knows Shanahan's offense cold- his ability to execute it is lacking.
Rex is so great- he hasn't throw a pass in the NFL in the last two years. BTW, one trick pony JFF fans with zero objectivity aren't much welcome around here. We've been cutting them from the board pretty regularly of late.
I view these PRESEASON performances purely through the prism of how the QB, or any player, does their job. I put much less emphasis on the result of any play versus the execution of the play. There's so many moving parts in preseason that its hard to make direct comparisons.
Vanilla play calling goes hand in hand with coaches calling plays to check a situation. Creating adversity if you will....
Bubble players constantly in and out of the lineups....
Scrambles put up a better stat line for sure....but that also tells the tale of how stats lie.
Hoyers mid and long range accuracy was piss poor....but he was making the right read, getting the ball out on time, and into a catchable window. He simply missed the throws. That can be cured by reps. While concerning, it demonstrates that execution of a given play is greatly dependent on first and foremost, understanding of the play relative to the defensive scheme. Its impossible to consistently make good decisions if one lacks the knowledge and understanding to process the information at hand to reach a good decision. So while Boyer does not possess the natural athletic gifts of scrambles, he has probably the most important gift to succeeding at the NFL level....the understanding. Without that part, succeeding is so much more difficult. What remains to be seen is whether he can turn understanding into points and wins.
Conversely....the Lil guy just doesn't know what to do with his athleticism. I'll be honest here....while even the stanchest manzealots are cringing an blaming the coaches, I'm become ever more a fan. I like what he says since TC has started. He's much smarter than I thought. I don't think it'll be long before the patterns in the playbook click, the defenses begin to look similar, and movements become predictable. I'm pretty excited to see him if it all comes together for him. I actually think it will....so step away from the ledge at least until next season. Fuck man....weeden got 2 seasons.....right?
I think pettiness has done an admirable job considering the coverage around the browns for a first year HC. He's gonna make mistakes, either we accept that people are fallible and deserve some time to correct those mistakes, or we invite the revolving door that been this FO and team. Chill the fuck out, stop being so knee jerk and fickle and watch what unfolds.
Hey jayjay- this is what we want to see out of you, not Hoyer sucks, Manziel great.
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Do you think Coach had to make Hoyer starter because Manziel didn't study they play book or show that he really wanted to be QB? Or did Hoyer deserve it?
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You started a new topic with this question?
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You started a new topic with this question?
You started a new topic with this question?
Different question....
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Hopefully he looks more like he did last year than he did in this preseason.
Thats what Im banking on too. I mean last year he was clicking and Im saying where did this guy come from. Then knowing hes been around Tom Brady for years tells me he had to pickup alot of knownledge from him. Its a solid pick and our best chance to win. Sit down Johnny he will be out there this year regardless, Hoyer ain't going make all 16 games...
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i guess going 3 and out on almost every possession and never scoring a touchdown is what passes for "earning it" in cleveland....but the homey's going to start, so all's good....
jayjay said:
i guess going 3 and out on almost every possession and never scoring a touchdown is what passes for "earning it" in cleveland....but the homey's going to start, so all's good....
Your problem is you have to "guess"...
I think Manziel is a visual learner, meaning it sinks in when what he sees what's happening on the field just like he sees it in his mind. He's made a comment or two when asked about learning the playbook that led me to think that. Talked about "seeing" the play.
Good catch... prompted me to remember the clip where Gruden asked him for a play call... response came v e r y - - s l o w l y. So what we have is an instinctual player having to think on the field and that's never a good thing.
Different question....
... and now same thread...
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I think Manziel may be a visual learner but if he's going to pan out as something special (which I think can happen) he's going to need a coach that will let him go out and make plays. Not comparing them straight up, but he reminds me a lot of Brett Favre who just did some amazingly stupid things early, but his talents eventually outweighed the risks he took. If they try to control and contain Manziel it will be harder for him to deliver the way he's used to delivering. Just my opinion.
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I am going to throw a couple of things out here.
What happened to rg3 under kyle?
How well does kyle's scheme really fit the roster?
How similar would you scheme an offense for manziel than hoyer?
Have you sensed that the scheme has been adjusted wisely for either?
I submit that the offense littered on the field like last years trash so far, under both qb's, looks to me like nothing more than random playbook pages from daddy's playbooks, with little understanding of why a certain roster might do better with certain concepts.
I submit that the browns are going nowhere with hoyer long term. He's never been a top 10 qb at any level and never will be. So what is this year all about?
I submit that the browns missed the boat this offseason and have very little time to get back on track. The time is now to find out if manziel is ever going to be the guy.
If he ever is, it wont be running the offense kyle is putting on the field.
In college, manziel was the greatest to ever play the game, in certain ways. He saw the field quicker than anyone. He could break from a drop back better than anyone. He could scramble like barry sanders, yet keep his eyes downfield, and find and hit receivers at the same time from any body position.
If you design plays to give him space, keep his eyes downfield, and make sure the team knows to stay with their blocks and routes longer, he'll be a star.
But if you want his eyes on the back in play action, or on an end in zone read option, you are taking away every advantage he has that no other qb can do.
Bottom line, this scheme is below average for hoyer, and literally the worst possible situation for manziel to be forced into.
Playing hoyer this way will get you 4-7 wins. Throwing it all out the window and putting the right scheme in to give manziel his best shit might get you more losses in september,
But by november you'll either have a superstar or you'll know you need another qb next season.
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