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Running Backs - Handled Negatively

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  • ManzierM Manzier

    I don't see the RB's as being mishandled at all.

    I saw them being the #1 running game in the league. Then I saw our #1 center go down. Then I saw the OL immediately stop producing.

    So are we saying that, after 5 games leading the league, the coaches all of a sudden screwed up the backs???

    Bah

    @manzier said:

    I don't see the RB's as being mishandled at all.

    I saw them being the #1 running game in the league. Then I saw our #1 center go down. Then I saw the OL immediately stop producing.

    So are we saying that, after 5 games leading the league, the coaches all of a sudden screwed up the backs???

    Bah

    I think we were mishandling them after Tate's return.

    While Tate returned as the feature back, initially the backup role was split roughly evenly between West and Crow. Yesterday West was the clear #2 with 8 touches and Crow the #3 with 2 (1 carry, 1 catch). Compare to the JAX game where the touches were Tate 17, Crow 8 and West 6. Both West and Crow talked about how hard it was to stay warm/ find a rhythm with so little work .

    A clear #2 is how it needs to be. Who it is may vary week to week.

    As for fumbles... Crow seems to carry the ball more loosely than the other two, i.e., swinging it away from his body more. So far he's only been caught once in a game... so far...

    But all that said... the real run issue has been the line since Mack.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • ThaakT Thaak

    @bbedward said:

    Not sure, didn't see much of him. He's been our hardest runner I think - but he's gotta work on the fumbles.

    He's fumbled once. How does that mean he has to work on fumbles?

    @thaak said:

    He's fumbled once. How does that mean he has to work on fumbles?

    Maybe but he's bobbled balls and got the right bounces. I'd like to see him take better care of it that's all. I think he's earned the spot as #2 over west though.

  • Kyle Shanahan's zone blocking scheme....the one his dad used to have 1000 yard runners like Terrell Davis, Orlandis Gary, Alfred Morris, etc. etc. may be on the order of the Mike Holmgren/Pat Shurmur West Coast offense. Defenders have seen it so much for so long that they now know how to defend it.....and it is not working. To get the run game going Shanahan is going to have to adapt.....to new defenses.....to running it without his Pro Bowl center.

    Now, I think, we will see what this OC is make of. He has met adversity. Will he adapt.....or go the route of the dinosaurs ala the Holmgren WCO.

  • OsirisO Osiris

    I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.

    @osiris said:

    I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.

    I agree 100%. This is exactly why I get so frustrated when people bitch about 1st round offensive line draft picks.

  • I understand Mack's worth to final numbers, but this Topic was about how "negatively" we've handled these guys ... when it was so easy to manage/coach them positively.

    I coached (baseball) for many years and there is an art to keeping your players "up" and have them playing confidently. It's not an easy task, but the way this coaching staff has approached this position is mind boggling.

    I understand that Tate was the featured back and had the starting job un-questionably secured heading into the season, and I understand Mack's worth, not just to the continuity of the line and blocking schemes, but to his teammates and locker room ... but how a coaching staff handles situations when those two guys go down injured says a lot and so far it's not been handled very well and it started to go South even before Tate's return and well before Mack's injury.

    Don't get me started feeding a feud in the press between Hoyer & Manziel and their long-term contracts or not. Complete assine to have that paraded out during the seasons high-peak to date. Professionals? ha!

  • First of all, Im happy to get a win this past Sunday, but unfortunately the way we have been playing against struggling teams is not going to cut it in our competitive division. It's obvious we need to develop a running game to be more of a passing threat. Im angry about the substitution rotation with the backs. What is wrong with Kyle Shanahan if he want to live up to his fathers name, he is not moving in the right direction, Is it me, or people is oblivious to the talent we have in Isaiah Crowell. He runs with great intensity, he carries defensive backs for an extra yard or two. He had 52 snaps gaining 265 yards, averaging 4.9 yards per carry and only took one snap this past Sunday. Whats wrong with Kyle Shanahan we did not win because of him.

    Bob806B 1 Reply
  • lodiloboL lodilobo

    Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.

    @lodilobo said:

    Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.

  • I agree, he is the better back, and technically he had 1 carry for 4 yards, he average 5 yards per carry. Im a little angry with Kyle Shanahan.

  • Look both Jacksonville and Oakland brought 8 men in the box pretty much the whole game on 1st and 2nd downs at some point Hoyer need to audible out of these runs into some deep passes or your just going to keep running into a brick wall. It will be interesting to see if Tampa does the same seeing as Lovie is a Tampa 2 guy.

    "You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978
    OsirisO 1 Reply

  • That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

    Z bbedwardB 2 Replies
  • LBC mikeL LBC mike

    That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

    @lbc-mike said:

    That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

    For the next three weeks ... then we add a weapon as good as any in the NFL ... things will open up big time.

    Z

  • G Gwopdog

    First of all, Im happy to get a win this past Sunday, but unfortunately the way we have been playing against struggling teams is not going to cut it in our competitive division. It's obvious we need to develop a running game to be more of a passing threat. Im angry about the substitution rotation with the backs. What is wrong with Kyle Shanahan if he want to live up to his fathers name, he is not moving in the right direction, Is it me, or people is oblivious to the talent we have in Isaiah Crowell. He runs with great intensity, he carries defensive backs for an extra yard or two. He had 52 snaps gaining 265 yards, averaging 4.9 yards per carry and only took one snap this past Sunday. Whats wrong with Kyle Shanahan we did not win because of him.

    @gwopdog said:

    Whats wrong with Kyle Shanahan we did not win because of him.

    I think he adapted well on the fly after we lost Cameron in the 2nd Q. Jim Dray, Gary Barnidge, Austin, Hawkins, Benjamin, & Gabriel are the receiving weapons. Those guys are solid, but certainly not all pros.

    You and others have rightly pointed out the impact of the Mack injury. Hopefully this week's starting O line is the same as the Raiders game, and we can gain confidence back in running the ball.

    I think we get down on coaching staffs because we are so used to failure. Give the staff a break for now & see how this pans out in the next 2 games.

    Karlis Missed
  • LBC mikeL LBC mike

    That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

    @lbc-mike said:

    That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

    Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.

  • bbedwardB bbedward

    @lbc-mike said:

    That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns

    Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.

    @bbedward said:

    Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.

    Plus there's the reality that JAX did not load the box that much and so far OAK has done it once (I'm almost to the half).

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    @bbedward said:

    Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.

    Plus there's the reality that JAX did not load the box that much and so far OAK has done it once (I'm almost to the half).

    @tour2ma said:

    Plus there's the reality that JAX did not load the box that much and so far OAK has done it once (I'm almost to the half).

    Just curious, when you say "load the box" are you purely going by number of guys? Because I wouldn't be surprised if on some plays there were only technically 7 in the box, but they are right on the line of scrimmage to play the run.

  • I can't divine the intent of our opponent's D, I can only count bodies. The premise of the conversation has been that teams are loading the box to stuff our run.

    I'm counting players within 5 yd of the line and "inside the tackle box" at the snap of the ball. So even late, creeping safeties get counted.

    Inside the tackle box includes ultra wide DEs and LBs on our TE's nose... even if our TE is slightly split.

    I do not count CBs head up on a tight WR as they are there due to our offensive choice. A DB outside an OLB will get counted if he is head up on no one.

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196

  • So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?

  • C Clevfan4life

    So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?

    @clevfan4life said:

    So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?

    Yes, if you look back at the footage that wasn't the case like everybody would like you to believe.

    Looking back on Jax, on almost all (at least 20) of Hoyers incompletions they sent 4. Hardly stacking the box making Hoyers arm beat you.

    Stockton said they loaded the box maybe 100 times because Hoyer cant throw citing a basement blog post so people are starting to believe it 😛

    Tour2maT 1 Reply

  • So we've been getting our run stuffed by teams only using their front 7. And people think we don't need to draft OL?

  • ThaakT Thaak

    @bbedward said:

    Not sure, didn't see much of him. He's been our hardest runner I think - but he's gotta work on the fumbles.

    He's fumbled once. How does that mean he has to work on fumbles?

    @thaak said:

    He's fumbled once. How does that mean he has to work on fumbles?

    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_mike_pettine_14.html

    You just heard it here first 😎

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