Running Backs - Handled Negatively
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I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.
I agree 100%. This is exactly why I get so frustrated when people bitch about 1st round offensive line draft picks.I saw Crowell in there for one play. In any case, the RBs are not the problem. The O-line makes the running back, and our O-line is still struggling since Mack was injured. Anyone who thinks one guy can't make this much difference on the line needs to go back to see how all the Browns players reacted when Mack went down vs. the Squeelers.
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I understand Mack's worth to final numbers, but this Topic was about how "negatively" we've handled these guys ... when it was so easy to manage/coach them positively.
I coached (baseball) for many years and there is an art to keeping your players "up" and have them playing confidently. It's not an easy task, but the way this coaching staff has approached this position is mind boggling.
I understand that Tate was the featured back and had the starting job un-questionably secured heading into the season, and I understand Mack's worth, not just to the continuity of the line and blocking schemes, but to his teammates and locker room ... but how a coaching staff handles situations when those two guys go down injured says a lot and so far it's not been handled very well and it started to go South even before Tate's return and well before Mack's injury.
Don't get me started feeding a feud in the press between Hoyer & Manziel and their long-term contracts or not. Complete assine to have that paraded out during the seasons high-peak to date. Professionals? ha!
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First of all, Im happy to get a win this past Sunday, but unfortunately the way we have been playing against struggling teams is not going to cut it in our competitive division. It's obvious we need to develop a running game to be more of a passing threat. Im angry about the substitution rotation with the backs. What is wrong with Kyle Shanahan if he want to live up to his fathers name, he is not moving in the right direction, Is it me, or people is oblivious to the talent we have in Isaiah Crowell. He runs with great intensity, he carries defensive backs for an extra yard or two. He had 52 snaps gaining 265 yards, averaging 4.9 yards per carry and only took one snap this past Sunday. Whats wrong with Kyle Shanahan we did not win because of him.
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Where was Crowell yesterday? He is the best of the 3, in my opinion. I think he had 1 carry for 1 yard. They could all do well in the right system, but Crowell should be the primary r.b. here.
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Look both Jacksonville and Oakland brought 8 men in the box pretty much the whole game on 1st and 2nd downs at some point Hoyer need to audible out of these runs into some deep passes or your just going to keep running into a brick wall. It will be interesting to see if Tampa does the same seeing as Lovie is a Tampa 2 guy.
"You see the Rams are still thinking that they are playing Tony Dorsett" -Jim Brown 1978 -
That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns
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That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns
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First of all, Im happy to get a win this past Sunday, but unfortunately the way we have been playing against struggling teams is not going to cut it in our competitive division. It's obvious we need to develop a running game to be more of a passing threat. Im angry about the substitution rotation with the backs. What is wrong with Kyle Shanahan if he want to live up to his fathers name, he is not moving in the right direction, Is it me, or people is oblivious to the talent we have in Isaiah Crowell. He runs with great intensity, he carries defensive backs for an extra yard or two. He had 52 snaps gaining 265 yards, averaging 4.9 yards per carry and only took one snap this past Sunday. Whats wrong with Kyle Shanahan we did not win because of him.
Whats wrong with Kyle Shanahan we did not win because of him.
I think he adapted well on the fly after we lost Cameron in the 2nd Q. Jim Dray, Gary Barnidge, Austin, Hawkins, Benjamin, & Gabriel are the receiving weapons. Those guys are solid, but certainly not all pros.
You and others have rightly pointed out the impact of the Mack injury. Hopefully this week's starting O line is the same as the Raiders game, and we can gain confidence back in running the ball.
I think we get down on coaching staffs because we are so used to failure. Give the staff a break for now & see how this pans out in the next 2 games.
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That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns
That is going to be the d we will face for the rest of year. Stop the run. You stop the browns
Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.
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Yea, but that's a good formula to beat a lot of teams. If we keep getting stuck in 3rd and 7-10 in Cincinnati that'll be a long 60 minutes.
Plus there's the reality that JAX did not load the box that much and so far OAK has done it once (I'm almost to the half).
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Plus there's the reality that JAX did not load the box that much and so far OAK has done it once (I'm almost to the half).
Just curious, when you say "load the box" are you purely going by number of guys? Because I wouldn't be surprised if on some plays there were only technically 7 in the box, but they are right on the line of scrimmage to play the run.
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I can't divine the intent of our opponent's D, I can only count bodies. The premise of the conversation has been that teams are loading the box to stuff our run.
I'm counting players within 5 yd of the line and "inside the tackle box" at the snap of the ball. So even late, creeping safeties get counted.
Inside the tackle box includes ultra wide DEs and LBs on our TE's nose... even if our TE is slightly split.
I do not count CBs head up on a tight WR as they are there due to our offensive choice. A DB outside an OLB will get counted if he is head up on no one.
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So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?
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So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?
Yes, if you look back at the footage that wasn't the case like everybody would like you to believe.So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?
Looking back on Jax, on almost all (at least 20) of Hoyers incompletions they sent 4. Hardly stacking the box making Hoyers arm beat you.
Stockton said they loaded the box maybe 100 times because Hoyer cant throw citing a basement blog post so people are starting to believe it
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So we've been getting our run stuffed by teams only using their front 7. And people think we don't need to draft OL?
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He's fumbled once. How does that mean he has to work on fumbles?
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_browns_mike_pettine_14.html
You just heard it here first
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Look both Jacksonville and Oakland brought 8 men in the box pretty much the whole game on 1st and 2nd downs at some point Hoyer need to audible out of these runs into some deep passes or your just going to keep running into a brick wall. It will be interesting to see if Tampa does the same seeing as Lovie is a Tampa 2 guy.
Look both Jacksonville and Oakland brought 8 men in the box pretty much the whole game on 1st and 2nd downs at some point Hoyer need to audible out of these runs into some deep passes or your just going to keep running into a brick wall. It will be interesting to see if Tampa does the same seeing as Lovie is a Tampa 2 guy.
Yep Hoyer needs to show that he will punish defenses that stack the box by calling audibles. We know he is smart enough to recognize and adjust to defenses, so I wonder why we aren't seeing more of this.
I'm wondering if a possible solution to our running game problem is if we should put a lineman instead of the third offset tight end when we run in the formation below (not sure if this is what we run exactly but I know we do the double tight-end on one side thing). Put an athletic lineman there on the edge and maybe we can finally start sealing it again for the outside runs:
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crowell fumbled 3 times in one game. he just happened to recover two of them.
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Yes, if you look back at the footage that wasn't the case like everybody would like you to believe.So Tour...ur saying that oak and jax "did not" put more than 7 guys in the box and they still stuffed us that hard?
Looking back on Jax, on almost all (at least 20) of Hoyers incompletions they sent 4. Hardly stacking the box making Hoyers arm beat you.
Stockton said they loaded the box maybe 100 times because Hoyer cant throw citing a basement blog post so people are starting to believe it
Yes, if you look back at the footage that wasn't the case like everybody would like you to believe.
Looking back on Jax, on almost all (at least 20) of Hoyers incompletions they sent 4. Hardly stacking the box making Hoyers arm beat you.
Stockton said they loaded the box maybe 100 times because Hoyer cant throw citing a basement blog post so people are starting to believe it
Exactly... and Clefan... the box counts are now in the weekly line grades.
I wish I had started rigorously recording the counts earlier when Mack was still at Center. I'd bet there has been fairly little shift to more in the box as weeks passed.
In Week 3's game vs. BLT I started noting high loadings, but almost nothing noted in Weeks 5 and 6.
So we've been getting our run stuffed by teams only using their front 7. And people think we don't need to draft OL?
I'm not seeing a lot of do or don't debate... more a debate of how high.
Yep Hoyer needs to show that he will punish defenses that stack the box by calling audibles. We know he is smart enough to recognize and adjust to defenses, so I wonder why we aren't seeing more of this.
I'm wondering if a possible solution to our running game problem is if we should put a lineman instead of the third offset tight end when we run in the formation below (not sure if this is what we run exactly but I know we do the double tight-end on one side thing). Put an athletic lineman there on the edge and maybe we can finally start sealing it again for the outside runs:
He has been calling some audibles... mostly it appears he changes the side at which we run.
The added O-lineman is interesting. Another option would be the Colt unbalanced line.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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