Hoyer
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It used to be they developed a quarterback. Not anymore! If Bradshaw was coming out today, good luck! Teams won't wait to develop a guy. And there aren't many Andrew Lucks' graduating anytime soon. Say goodbye to; Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, Christian Ponder, Jake Locker and pretty soon Colin Kaepernick.
It used to be they developed a quarterback. Not anymore! If Bradshaw was coming out today, good luck! Teams won't wait to develop a guy.
Great example...Except that Bradshaw started game one his rookie year... Then was benched for poor play
Bradshaw's circumstances were far closer to Couch's than Johnny's... both were overall #1's that were immediately pressed into service on bad teams.
By contrast to either, our "patience" with JM has been unlimited.
The bigger difference is today Free Agency and rookie contracts prohibit "development" of higher draft picks.
Because of the rookie pay scale & CBA, we gotta pay high picks millions from day one(like they're already stars) and only have them for only a few years before they can leave....so....we should spend years and millions developing QB's for other teams?
No. Today, if you're picked early and you have the 8 million dollar contract, you are expected to perform. Right away.
Connor Shaw cost us nothing.....and get's paid nothing...so THAT is the type you "develop". And presumed SUPERSTARS are held to a higher standard and paid as such.
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It used to be they developed a quarterback. Not anymore! If Bradshaw was coming out today, good luck! Teams won't wait to develop a guy. And there aren't many Andrew Lucks' graduating anytime soon. Say goodbye to; Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, Christian Ponder, Jake Locker and pretty soon Colin Kaepernick.
It used to be they developed a quarterback. Not anymore! If Bradshaw was coming out today, good luck! Teams won't wait to develop a guy. And there aren't many Andrew Lucks' graduating anytime soon. Say goodbye to; Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, Christian Ponder, Jake Locker and pretty soon Colin Kaepernick.
That's damned right - hell, Fran Tarkenton didn't make the playoffs until what, his 12th season? He's in the Hall of Fame. Fast food football rebuilding doesn't work.
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It used to be they developed a quarterback. Not anymore! If Bradshaw was coming out today, good luck! Teams won't wait to develop a guy.
Great example...Except that Bradshaw started game one his rookie year... Then was benched for poor play
Bradshaw's circumstances were far closer to Couch's than Johnny's... both were overall #1's that were immediately pressed into service on bad teams.
By contrast to either, our "patience" with JM has been unlimited.
The bigger difference is today Free Agency and rookie contracts prohibit "development" of higher draft picks.
Because of the rookie pay scale & CBA, we gotta pay high picks millions from day one(like they're already stars) and only have them for only a few years before they can leave....so....we should spend years and millions developing QB's for other teams?
No. Today, if you're picked early and you have the 8 million dollar contract, you are expected to perform. Right away.
Connor Shaw cost us nothing.....and get's paid nothing...so THAT is the type you "develop". And presumed SUPERSTARS are held to a higher standard and paid as such.
Because of the rookie pay scale & CBA, we gotta pay high picks millions from day one(like they're already stars) and only have them for only a few years before they can leave....so....we should spend years and millions developing QB's for other teams?
No. Today, if you're picked early and you have the 8 million dollar contract, you are expected to perform. Right away.
Connor Shaw cost us nothing.....and get's paid nothing...so THAT is the type you "develop". And presumed SUPERSTARS are held to a higher standard and paid as such.
Not following you, Mud.
Thanks to the CBA top draft picks are cheaper now than they have been since the dawn of the AFL. $8 mill is cheap. Add that deals are usually for 3-5 years with maybe an option year and there is plenty of time to assess top QBs' potential.
The problem would seem to me to be bigger on the long-shots, the Shaw's. Sure their deals are cheap, but they are also short-term. Most of the time UDFAs are on one or two-year deals. They don't get much time and turnover at the lower end is high. They are disposable. Agree they are who you can develop, maybe even should, but it's harder now that under the old, essentially "lifetime" contracts of the past.
That's damned right - hell, Fran Tarkenton didn't make the playoffs until what, his 12th season? He's in the Hall of Fame. Fast food football rebuilding doesn't work.
Sir Francis was a good QB on a bad team, Day 1 in the league. He scrambled for his for most of his early career... not to run, but to buy time to pass.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
@junkyard-dawg said:
Yep. Had people actually supported him instead of demanding Johnny Fruitcakes replace him after every play maybe he would have kept growing. This is Cleveland though, where anytime we find a guy with potential we go draft a media faggot with zero talent in the 1st round as his replacement instead of letting the guy develop.
Now i'm not saying Hoyer was the longterm answer, but we are talking about a ceiling around Tony Romo with Hoyer vs a ceiling of a lower I.Q., lazier, shorter and less Athletic Tim Tebow with Johnny Fruitcakes. Fucking insanity the Mob calls for the Fruitcake yet again and demands the Browns squelch the potential.
Ironically the same guys that are calling for one guy to get more time to develop are the same guys calling to shit can another guy after one bad start.
WSS
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Yes indeed they do. I hope JFF tears it up this week to shut them the fuck up.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Because of the rookie pay scale & CBA, we gotta pay high picks millions from day one(like they're already stars) and only have them for only a few years before they can leave....so....we should spend years and millions developing QB's for other teams?
No. Today, if you're picked early and you have the 8 million dollar contract, you are expected to perform. Right away.
Connor Shaw cost us nothing.....and get's paid nothing...so THAT is the type you "develop". And presumed SUPERSTARS are held to a higher standard and paid as such.
Not following you, Mud.
Thanks to the CBA top draft picks are cheaper now than they have been since the dawn of the AFL. $8 mill is cheap. Add that deals are usually for 3-5 years with maybe an option year and there is plenty of time to assess top QBs' potential.
The problem would seem to me to be bigger on the long-shots, the Shaw's. Sure their deals are cheap, but they are also short-term. Most of the time UDFAs are on one or two-year deals. They don't get much time and turnover at the lower end is high. They are disposable. Agree they are who you can develop, maybe even should, but it's harder now that under the old, essentially "lifetime" contracts of the past.
That's damned right - hell, Fran Tarkenton didn't make the playoffs until what, his 12th season? He's in the Hall of Fame. Fast food football rebuilding doesn't work.
Sir Francis was a good QB on a bad team, Day 1 in the league. He scrambled for his for most of his early career... not to run, but to buy time to pass.
Not following you, Mud.
Thanks to the CBA top draft picks are cheaper now than they have been since the dawn of the AFL. $8 mill is cheap. Add that deals are usually for 3-5 years with maybe an option year and there is plenty of time to assess top QBs' potential.
OK....I was mistaken then....as I thought the max rookie contract was 4 years(dunno why) and figured if you burned the first 2 or 3 years developing them, then they could end up playing one year and then bolting as soon as they become something good....
I think maybe Im confusing B ball with football a bit.....
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@junkyard-dawg said:
One earned it and has potential. The other hasn't earned shit and has less potential than Brady fucking Quinn.
Dude you're out of your mind.
WSS
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@junkyard-dawg said:
I'm not the one calling for the guy with Seneca Wallace's height, Colt McCoy's arm and Ryan Leafs work ethic to "get more time" and "be our starter."
I don't necessarily agree with how hardcore you've given up on him, but I did want to point out that I prefer the Seneca Wallace comparison more than the Russell Wilson one, fits better at this point
What I mean is, it isn't fair to give up on him this early. I am very doubtful he succeeds much though. But we can still work on developing him without altering our decisions at all. Pick the guy who can win, if you really love a rookie coming out or FA take them. Unlike some of the aggie airheads on here have said, being a 1st round pick doesn't guarantee you anything.
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I wouldn't compare Johnny M. to Russel Wilson and quite honestly it baffles me that I keep hearing people everywhere making that comparison. Totally different player.
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^ I don't get that either. Wilson is a thousand times more mature, played four years in college, and came from a pro style offense. Wilson never looks to run immediately. He know how to read the D and get through his progressions before escaping the pocket. He only runs when he HAS to run. Has a much, much better feel for the pocket, which wouldn't be difficult since JFF seems to have zero feel for it.
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^ Exactly. Wilson is fully capable of passing from the pocket. From what I've seen of Johnny he doesn't have seem to have an awareness of the pocket passing game. Who knows, if Johnny can adapt to an NFL style offense and use his running/speed like Wilson does, he may be comparable one day. But not anytime soon and who knows if that will even happen.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
I'm not the one calling for the guy with Seneca Wallace's height, Colt McCoy's arm and Ryan Leafs work ethic to "get more time" and "be our starter."
You've seen the guy in one game. This is indicative of exactly how crappy our fanbase is.
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Yes indeed they do. I hope JFF tears it up this week to shut them the fuck up.
Yes indeed they do. I hope JFF tears it up this week to shut them the fuck up.
Great reason...
Some of us would love it if JM "tears it up", but because it would help us win and would give us a basis for hope.
See the difference?
Ironically the same guys that are calling for one guy to get more time to develop are the same guys calling to shit can another guy after one bad start.
Which same guys? It's OK to name names...
Steve, remember the much ballyhooed A&M play where JM... nevermind... here it is. Note the slot receiver, #15... he's the guy who does jumping-jacks near the sideline.
Fans followed the announcers lead... they touted the "excitement" in Manziel's play.
Analysts pointed out the play was made unnecessarily exciting by Manziel. The receiver was wide open right away and was reasonable choice for a 2nd and 7. JM looked at him early, but chose to run around and bounce off players.
Fast forward to JM's CIN start. In his 4th series' 3rd, and final, play, Dray is split left and runs a 10-yard, inside curl. The outside WR runs a deep clearing route; the CB follows. The OLB is late to Dray and too shallow; his back is to JM. The window is open. JM looks left and does not throw. There is no pocket pressure at this point. Nonetheless JM pulls the ball down and begins to run left.
Seeing the run the OLB closes. Dray follows to potentially set a block. JM floats the ball over the OLB... and over Dray. Some are actually blaming Dray for mistiming his jump. I think that is laughable, but that's not the point.
The point is that JM did not see the initial read; he did not see the window. The point is that JM has not improved his game since A&M. The point is you have to show progress to earn more time to progress. Maybe we'll see a down payment this Sunday.
Go Browns...
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College has no bearing on the nfl
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Not following you, Mud.
Thanks to the CBA top draft picks are cheaper now than they have been since the dawn of the AFL. $8 mill is cheap. Add that deals are usually for 3-5 years with maybe an option year and there is plenty of time to assess top QBs' potential.
OK....I was mistaken then....as I thought the max rookie contract was 4 years(dunno why) and figured if you burned the first 2 or 3 years developing them, then they could end up playing one year and then bolting as soon as they become something good....
I think maybe Im confusing B ball with football a bit.....
OK....I was mistaken then....as I thought the max rookie contract was 4 years(dunno why) and figured if you burned the first 2 or 3 years developing them, then they could end up playing one year and then bolting as soon as they become something good....
Actually most 2014 draftee contracts seem to split our difference at 4 years. A couple have 5th year options.
More than enough to see potential and develop much of what's there even at QB. But bolting is a potential issue, be it at 2,3 5,or 8 years. Especially at QB as opposed to say, RB, where the rookie contract length equals the average life expectancy.
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College has no bearing on the nfl
I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play. It was one I mentioned in this thread (or perhaps another?) last Tuesday. That "highlight" is the poorest example of one I've ever seen. 1st bad decision, as Tour put it - was not to throw to the open boundary bubble screen. 2nd terrible decision was jumping headlong into a pile of defenders. It is nothing more than shear luck he was able to get out of that mess.
College has no bearing on the nfl
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
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I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play. It was one I mentioned in this thread (or perhaps another?) last Tuesday. That "highlight" is the poorest example of one I've ever seen. 1st bad decision, as Tour put it - was not to throw to the open boundary bubble screen. 2nd terrible decision was jumping headlong into a pile of defenders. It is nothing more than shear luck he was able to get out of that mess.
College has no bearing on the nfl
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play.
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
You're welcome...
I may know where Kid is coming from... Might be a sarcastic post as the argument has been made to the Manzealots that JM's college success is not necessarily translatable to the NFL.
Has set me to wondering: what is??? I may have to put on my Gipper mask.
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You're the guy making ridiculous statements. Unfounded and meaningless. That's all. You have no fucking idea how much potential the guy has.@junkyard-dawg said:
I'm not the one calling for the guy with Seneca Wallace's height, Colt McCoy's arm and Ryan Leafs work ethic to "get more time" and "be our starter."
Nobody, especially nobody on this board, does one way or the other.
I understand you are upset with the pick and with him but just saying stupid shit doesn't bolster your argument.
WSS
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Plus just an FYI Seneca Wallace and Russell Wilson are 5 feet 11 inches tall. Drew Brees is 6 feet tall, the same as Johnny Manziel. As if that means anything to you.
WSS
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