Hoyer
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^ I don't get that either. Wilson is a thousand times more mature, played four years in college, and came from a pro style offense. Wilson never looks to run immediately. He know how to read the D and get through his progressions before escaping the pocket. He only runs when he HAS to run. Has a much, much better feel for the pocket, which wouldn't be difficult since JFF seems to have zero feel for it.
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^ Exactly. Wilson is fully capable of passing from the pocket. From what I've seen of Johnny he doesn't have seem to have an awareness of the pocket passing game. Who knows, if Johnny can adapt to an NFL style offense and use his running/speed like Wilson does, he may be comparable one day. But not anytime soon and who knows if that will even happen.
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@junkyard-dawg said:
I'm not the one calling for the guy with Seneca Wallace's height, Colt McCoy's arm and Ryan Leafs work ethic to "get more time" and "be our starter."
You've seen the guy in one game. This is indicative of exactly how crappy our fanbase is.
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Yes indeed they do. I hope JFF tears it up this week to shut them the fuck up.
Yes indeed they do. I hope JFF tears it up this week to shut them the fuck up.
Great reason...
Some of us would love it if JM "tears it up", but because it would help us win and would give us a basis for hope.
See the difference?
Ironically the same guys that are calling for one guy to get more time to develop are the same guys calling to shit can another guy after one bad start.
Which same guys? It's OK to name names...
Steve, remember the much ballyhooed A&M play where JM... nevermind... here it is. Note the slot receiver, #15... he's the guy who does jumping-jacks near the sideline.
Fans followed the announcers lead... they touted the "excitement" in Manziel's play.
Analysts pointed out the play was made unnecessarily exciting by Manziel. The receiver was wide open right away and was reasonable choice for a 2nd and 7. JM looked at him early, but chose to run around and bounce off players.
Fast forward to JM's CIN start. In his 4th series' 3rd, and final, play, Dray is split left and runs a 10-yard, inside curl. The outside WR runs a deep clearing route; the CB follows. The OLB is late to Dray and too shallow; his back is to JM. The window is open. JM looks left and does not throw. There is no pocket pressure at this point. Nonetheless JM pulls the ball down and begins to run left.
Seeing the run the OLB closes. Dray follows to potentially set a block. JM floats the ball over the OLB... and over Dray. Some are actually blaming Dray for mistiming his jump. I think that is laughable, but that's not the point.
The point is that JM did not see the initial read; he did not see the window. The point is that JM has not improved his game since A&M. The point is you have to show progress to earn more time to progress. Maybe we'll see a down payment this Sunday.
Go Browns...
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College has no bearing on the nfl
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Not following you, Mud.
Thanks to the CBA top draft picks are cheaper now than they have been since the dawn of the AFL. $8 mill is cheap. Add that deals are usually for 3-5 years with maybe an option year and there is plenty of time to assess top QBs' potential.
OK....I was mistaken then....as I thought the max rookie contract was 4 years(dunno why) and figured if you burned the first 2 or 3 years developing them, then they could end up playing one year and then bolting as soon as they become something good....
I think maybe Im confusing B ball with football a bit.....
OK....I was mistaken then....as I thought the max rookie contract was 4 years(dunno why) and figured if you burned the first 2 or 3 years developing them, then they could end up playing one year and then bolting as soon as they become something good....
Actually most 2014 draftee contracts seem to split our difference at 4 years. A couple have 5th year options.
More than enough to see potential and develop much of what's there even at QB. But bolting is a potential issue, be it at 2,3 5,or 8 years. Especially at QB as opposed to say, RB, where the rookie contract length equals the average life expectancy.
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College has no bearing on the nfl
I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play. It was one I mentioned in this thread (or perhaps another?) last Tuesday. That "highlight" is the poorest example of one I've ever seen. 1st bad decision, as Tour put it - was not to throw to the open boundary bubble screen. 2nd terrible decision was jumping headlong into a pile of defenders. It is nothing more than shear luck he was able to get out of that mess.
College has no bearing on the nfl
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
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I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play. It was one I mentioned in this thread (or perhaps another?) last Tuesday. That "highlight" is the poorest example of one I've ever seen. 1st bad decision, as Tour put it - was not to throw to the open boundary bubble screen. 2nd terrible decision was jumping headlong into a pile of defenders. It is nothing more than shear luck he was able to get out of that mess.
College has no bearing on the nfl
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play.
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
You're welcome...
I may know where Kid is coming from... Might be a sarcastic post as the argument has been made to the Manzealots that JM's college success is not necessarily translatable to the NFL.
Has set me to wondering: what is??? I may have to put on my Gipper mask.
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You're the guy making ridiculous statements. Unfounded and meaningless. That's all. You have no fucking idea how much potential the guy has.@junkyard-dawg said:
I'm not the one calling for the guy with Seneca Wallace's height, Colt McCoy's arm and Ryan Leafs work ethic to "get more time" and "be our starter."
Nobody, especially nobody on this board, does one way or the other.
I understand you are upset with the pick and with him but just saying stupid shit doesn't bolster your argument.
WSS
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Plus just an FYI Seneca Wallace and Russell Wilson are 5 feet 11 inches tall. Drew Brees is 6 feet tall, the same as Johnny Manziel. As if that means anything to you.
WSS
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Plus just an FYI Seneca Wallace and Russell Wilson are 5 feet 11 inches tall. Drew Brees is 6 feet tall, the same as Johnny Manziel. As if that means anything to you.
WSS
Plus just an FYI Seneca Wallace and Russell Wilson are 5 feet 11 inches tall. Drew Brees is 6 feet tall, the same as Johnny Manziel. As if that means anything to you.
WSS
I think that was the point. People always mention Wilson and Brees in reference to small QB comparisons, which is not accurate for Johnny - who is closer to Seneca Wallace at this point.
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@everlastingxxx said:
Its the same 10 or so posters. They have been spewing their uneducated garbage all week, nonstop. At some point you figured it would slow down. Its a 22 year old kid they have been attacking relentlessly. These posters need to grow up. Be an adult.
Anyone who has been a longtime fan of an NFL team should have learned the dangers of being an instant evaluator.
Ok. Let's not evaluate what he's done so far
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@everlastingxxx said:
Its the same 10 or so posters. They have been spewing their uneducated garbage all week, nonstop. At some point you figured it would slow down. Its a 22 year old kid they have been attacking relentlessly. These posters need to grow up. Be an adult.
Anyone who has been a longtime fan of an NFL team should have learned the dangers of being an instant evaluator.
I'd say most are evaluating him over the course of his college and now NFL career.
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I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play. It was one I mentioned in this thread (or perhaps another?) last Tuesday. That "highlight" is the poorest example of one I've ever seen. 1st bad decision, as Tour put it - was not to throw to the open boundary bubble screen. 2nd terrible decision was jumping headlong into a pile of defenders. It is nothing more than shear luck he was able to get out of that mess.
College has no bearing on the nfl
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
I'd like to thank Tour for highlighting that play. It was one I mentioned in this thread (or perhaps another?) last Tuesday. That "highlight" is the poorest example of one I've ever seen. 1st bad decision, as Tour put it - was not to throw to the open boundary bubble screen. 2nd terrible decision was jumping headlong into a pile of defenders. It is nothing more than shear luck he was able to get out of that mess.
It doesn't? How do you explain the NFL front office process of selecting draft picks then?
If it did college superstars would be nfl superstars and guys like tom brady would be schlubs
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Not to wade in on Brady, but I would say that back up QB's tend to look GREAT when they play for a GREAT team.
So great teams execute well, which makes life much easier for a QB.
That doesn't mean Brady is great because he's on a great team.....but I do believe many of the "perceived greatest" QB's have benefitted from their great teams....a few that I think woulda been closer to average if they played for lesser teams include Simms, Aikman, Bradshaw and Montana....I think all these guys rankings have been inflated because they had great teams around them....
A few that "might" have been even greater, had they been on better teams include Marino, A. Manning & Cunningham
Imagine if Marino had the 49's team that Montana had......wow!
I know there's no way to know for sure on any of these guys.....just fun speculatin
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@junkyard-dawg said:
Remove Brady from New England and the Patriots system and he's Matt Cassel. Purely a System QB. Even he knows it, which is why he never bitches about small contracts and taking pay cuts.
I disagree. New England over the last 10 years has had one of the most diverse offensive structures in the league and Brady has been successful in everyone of them including
swapping offensive cordiaators multiple times.
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Plus just an FYI Seneca Wallace and Russell Wilson are 5 feet 11 inches tall. Drew Brees is 6 feet tall, the same as Johnny Manziel. As if that means anything to you.
WSS
I think that was the point. People always mention Wilson and Brees in reference to small QB comparisons, which is not accurate for Johnny - who is closer to Seneca Wallace at this point.
Well wasn't my point. My point is the guy was talking a load of shit. I just further pointed out that his numbers were even wrong making his nonsense even more ridiculous.I think that was the point. People always mention Wilson and Brees in reference to small QB comparisons, which is not accurate for Johnny - who is closer to Seneca Wallace at this point.
WSS
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Junkyarddog need to quit taking PCP before posting.
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Hoyer has proven that he can be a good quarterback in the NFL. The offense has not been the same since pro bowl center Mack went out injured. The running game has suffered as well as the play of Hoyer since Mack has been out. I believe with an improved offensive line Hoyer will be back playing like he has shown he is capable of. I have little confidence in Manziel and I don't like all the celebrity status he has been receiving when he has not even proven he is capable of being an NFL quarterback. I can't pin the embarrasing loss to the Bengals solely on Manziel as that was a total team lack of effort.
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