Bernie's take
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Yeah Bernie would be happy with the browns FO if they hired him.
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I don't know if it's a "culture" thing so much, but I agree with most of what Kosar is saying. I just think the problem this year has more to do with the JF media circus than anything else. On the surface, the switch from Hoyer to JF after the Colts game made a lot of sense. The offense was tanking, making the playoffs seemed unlikely, and we had potential, untested talent in the wings at QB. Makes sense to me.What I don't get is why Hoyer (and our entire offense) started to implode after a 7-4 start. Ok, we have had some challenges on the OL, but they seemed to be holding their own. At that point, Gordon was coming back and the defense was starting to improve. WTF happened??? I can sort of understand getting shut down by the Bills, but the Colts game didn't sit well with me. With our defensive effort, we should have easily won that game. Why did our offense (not just QB) become so inept when we had so much going for us? Could the JF media circus have somehow caused this? Did mounting pressure force the coaching staff to start Manziel before he was ready? Maybe I'm reading too much into it but, unless JF turns out to be the savior, I see another year of big changes in the Browns organization. Especially knowing they'll probably end the season by losing the last 5 games (and 6 of the last 7).I like Johnny for the most part. He's a little immature, but he's a hard worker and great competitor. I just think picking him in the draft (especially in the 1st rd) was a huge mistake. That's probably why so many teams avoided him. Selling T-shirts is great, but at some point you have to back it up with wins.
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I don't know if it's a "culture" thing so much, but I agree with most of what Kosar is saying. I just think the problem this year has more to do with the JF media circus than anything else. On the surface, the switch from Hoyer to JF after the Colts game made a lot of sense. The offense was tanking, making the playoffs seemed unlikely, and we had potential, untested talent in the wings at QB. Makes sense to me.What I don't get is why Hoyer (and our entire offense) started to implode after a 7-4 start. Ok, we have had some challenges on the OL, but they seemed to be holding their own. At that point, Gordon was coming back and the defense was starting to improve. WTF happened??? I can sort of understand getting shut down by the Bills, but the Colts game didn't sit well with me. With our defensive effort, we should have easily won that game. Why did our offense (not just QB) become so inept when we had so much going for us? Could the JF media circus have somehow caused this? Did mounting pressure force the coaching staff to start Manziel before he was ready? Maybe I'm reading too much into it but, unless JF turns out to be the savior, I see another year of big changes in the Browns organization. Especially knowing they'll probably end the season by losing the last 5 games (and 6 of the last 7).I like Johnny for the most part. He's a little immature, but he's a hard worker and great competitor. I just think picking him in the draft (especially in the 1st rd) was a huge mistake. That's probably why so many teams avoided him. Selling T-shirts is great, but at some point you have to back it up with wins.
I don't know if it's a "culture" thing so much, but I agree with most of what Kosar is saying. I just think the problem this year has more to do with the JF media circus than anything else. On the surface, the switch from Hoyer to JF after the Colts game made a lot of sense. The offense was tanking, making the playoffs seemed unlikely, and we had potential, untested talent in the wings at QB. Makes sense to me.What I don't get is why Hoyer (and our entire offense) started to implode after a 7-4 start. Ok, we have had some challenges on the OL, but they seemed to be holding their own. At that point, Gordon was coming back and the defense was starting to improve. WTF happened??? I can sort of understand getting shut down by the Bills, but the Colts game didn't sit well with me. With our defensive effort, we should have easily won that game. Why did our offense (not just QB) become so inept when we had so much going for us? Could the JF media circus have somehow caused this? Did mounting pressure force the coaching staff to start Manziel before he was ready? Maybe I'm reading too much into it but, unless JF turns out to be the savior, I see another year of big changes in the Browns organization. Especially knowing they'll probably end the season by losing the last 5 games (and 6 of the last 7).I like Johnny for the most part. He's a little immature, but he's a hard worker and great competitor. I just think picking him in the draft (especially in the 1st rd) was a huge mistake. That's probably why so many teams avoided him. Selling T-shirts is great, but at some point you have to back it up with wins.Very fair question, I just think Hoyer couldn't manage the pressure of looking over his shoulder and he imploded as a result. I'd be 100% against it obviously but I actually believe Hoyer would play a good game if they put him back in now that Manziel tanked like that.
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"long past due organizational controversy" makes no sense here...
for the first half success and then the collapse due largely to injury,
Kosar is wrong imo - passionate yes - but mosty pissed like the rest of us.
this is a first year coaching staff and GM with some good results and a good outlook.
stay the course that is all...
Course? I don't see any course at all now................
Course? I don't see any course at all now................
obviously you know nothing then.
i'll just write you off as a new complainer who is blinded by his own wants and needs.
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Bernie is a bitter man and his bitterness against the organization comes through fairly clearly in his rant. The Browns have had every reason first of all to steer clear of Bernie based on his plethora of personal issues. Bernie's commentary on the skill level of our current coaching staff and management are pure conjecture on his part. His personal and family life are a complete disaster and his time would be well spent getting his own house in order. No last year so when Bernie was a commentator you can literally see the shipping is and strangeness of him in his eyes. I do understand that Bernie overall knows more than most of us put together about football however he simply too biased and out of the loop to intelligently comment on what's really going on.
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Bernie is an embarrassment to the Browns organization.
Fuck you. He is a great former Cleveland Brown.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Bernie is an embarrassment to the Browns organization.
Fuck you. He is a great former Cleveland Brown.
Fuck you. He is a great former Cleveland Brown.
Ditto.
He may be bitter and drunk, but he does love Cleveland.
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Winning is a mindset. When Ray (the murderer) Lewis announced his retirement just in time for the playoff push, his team played like crazy. He timed the announcement to coincide with 1. Playoffs 2. Media attention. The whole team fed off his gigantic ego and they went on to win the Super Bowl. They were a mediocre, under achieving team at best until ole Ray got wise and stoked the fire with his retirement news.
What Kosar was trying to say is that someone needs to take charge and be a leader. If you live in the basement long enough you grow accustomed to the dark. The front office needs to make better decisions on draft day and the team needs to focus on fundamental football. They need continuity and better coaching from everyone involved. This team has been used as a stepping stone to better places and it's time this stopped. Players should want to stay in Cleveland and be proud to wear the orange and brown. Haslam needs more time to prove he's serious. Hopefully this is not another Holmgren regime that collects a paycheck and absolutely nothing else.
So far, Ray Farmer and Pettine seem legit. But another wasted first round is going to start taking a toll. They need playmakers and passed on the best wide receiver draft ever. This is concerning considering they knew about Gordon's predicament. This next draft will be very telling.
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I don't know if it's a "culture" thing so much, but I agree with most of what Kosar is saying. I just think the problem this year has more to do with the JF media circus than anything else. On the surface, the switch from Hoyer to JF after the Colts game made a lot of sense. The offense was tanking, making the playoffs seemed unlikely, and we had potential, untested talent in the wings at QB. Makes sense to me.What I don't get is why Hoyer (and our entire offense) started to implode after a 7-4 start. Ok, we have had some challenges on the OL, but they seemed to be holding their own. At that point, Gordon was coming back and the defense was starting to improve. WTF happened??? I can sort of understand getting shut down by the Bills, but the Colts game didn't sit well with me. With our defensive effort, we should have easily won that game. Why did our offense (not just QB) become so inept when we had so much going for us? Could the JF media circus have somehow caused this? Did mounting pressure force the coaching staff to start Manziel before he was ready? Maybe I'm reading too much into it but, unless JF turns out to be the savior, I see another year of big changes in the Browns organization. Especially knowing they'll probably end the season by losing the last 5 games (and 6 of the last 7).I like Johnny for the most part. He's a little immature, but he's a hard worker and great competitor. I just think picking him in the draft (especially in the 1st rd) was a huge mistake. That's probably why so many teams avoided him. Selling T-shirts is great, but at some point you have to back it up with wins.
Very fair question, I just think Hoyer couldn't manage the pressure of looking over his shoulder and he imploded as a result. I'd be 100% against it obviously but I actually believe Hoyer would play a good game if they put him back in now that Manziel tanked like that.
Very fair question, I just think Hoyer couldn't manage the pressure of looking over his shoulder and he imploded as a result. I'd be 100% against it obviously but I actually believe Hoyer would play a good game if they put him back in now that Manziel tanked like that.
I agree - I don't think coach Mike Pedigree nor offensive coordinator Shenanigans wanted to start Manziel. Someone above them made that call.
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Bernie is an embarrassment to the Browns organization.
Fuck you. He is a great former Cleveland Brown.
Fuck you. He is a great former Cleveland Brown.
So what. The fact he was a great former Brown means nothing in relation to his commentary on running an NFL football team. Realistically to call him "great" is a stretch anyway. His actions in recent years are an embarrassment as was previously stated. I do not question his football smarts but that in and of itself does not quality him to run or even comment on the way a team is run. If you can't see the bitterness in him because of the fact the organization wants nothing to do with him you are being purposely blind. The way the guy avoids eye contact and the camera when he as a commentator was one of the creepiest things I have ever seen.
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Very fair question, I just think Hoyer couldn't manage the pressure of looking over his shoulder and he imploded as a result. I'd be 100% against it obviously but I actually believe Hoyer would play a good game if they put him back in now that Manziel tanked like that.
I agree - I don't think coach Mike Pedigree nor offensive coordinator Shenanigans wanted to start Manziel. Someone above them made that call.
You think Ray Manuel or Jimmy Dawson wanted to start Lebron Manzealous?I agree - I don't think coach Mike Pedigree nor offensive coordinator Shenanigans wanted to start Manziel. Someone above them made that call.
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http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=cleveland-browns&id=10615
Tim Couch agrees with Bernie.
Unlike some others, I don't think Couch had what it took to be more than average. Maybe he could a had a pro bowl year on a great team and some good flashes.
No doubt the pummeling he took week after week pretty much ended his career though, which probably could a been decent.
Let's such up the hatas by whooping Carolina and Baltimore.
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http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=cleveland-browns&id=10615
Tim Couch agrees with Bernie.
Unlike some others, I don't think Couch had what it took to be more than average. Maybe he could a had a pro bowl year on a great team and some good flashes.
No doubt the pummeling he took week after week pretty much ended his career though, which probably could a been decent.
Let's such up the hatas by whooping Carolina and Baltimore.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=cleveland-browns&id=10615
Tim Couch agrees with Bernie.
Unlike some others, I don't think Couch had what it took to be more than average. Maybe he could a had a pro bowl year on a great team and some good flashes.
No doubt the pummeling he took week after week pretty much ended his career though, which probably could a been decent.
Let's such up the hatas by whooping Carolina and Baltimore.
Gotta agree with them. I'm tired of the same shit qb and coach carousel. Like they said, a qb isn't goibg to play lights out every game. I would agree that the mounting pressure got to hoyer.
Pettine should have just stated hoyer was the qb and keep john boy on the bench where he belongs.
The laughing on the bench pisses me off and shows that the culture still isn't right in Cleveland. Tom Brady might be a bitch, but he gets fucking pisses off when losing.
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OK, Bernie is great joke material, makes a great scrapbook photo, etc and all, but when a player his intelligence and caliber speaks, I listen, regardless of hangovers and brain-bashings. -
You had to post it again?
Bernie has no inside information on how the browns are run. He's bitter he isn't a part of the organization.
Love him or not, his take is based on bias and no real information or experience.
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Interesting. I have been scratching my head since Sunday wondering how the Browns staff could have gotten it so wrong. Clearly Sunday was NOT the time to put in a player who was in over his head. How could they have thought that he was ready? How could they have been so impatient now, when all teams are in playoff mode, to throw him to the wolves when they had been so patiently bringing him along to learn how to be a pro QB? Maybe what Bernie says has more merit than just first glance. It's far easier to just denigrate another Browns QB because it has now become "tradition". It's been obvious on this board from the moment he was drafted that he was getting the usual "Browns" welcome to the NFL, the place the rest of the nation jokingly refers to as the city where QB's come to die. Either properly let him grow into the position or trade him to someone like Dallas or Green Bay who will.
JFF has justifiably had to eat a plate full of humble pie this week. How about the staff give him a break and not make him eat two more plates full before making a premature decision for his long term future? And I agree with Bernie, it's far easier just to write off another QB rather than to look within to see what is wrong with a system that has eaten up 21 and counting since return to Cleveland.
George Santayana. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana (16 December 1863 in Madrid, Spain – 26 September 1952 in Rome, Italy) was a philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist.
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You had to post it again?
Bernie has no inside information on how the browns are run. He's bitter he isn't a part of the organization.
Love him or not, his take is based on bias and no real information or experience.
You had to post it again?
Bernie has no inside information on how the browns are run. He's bitter he isn't a part of the organization.
Love him or not, his take is based on bias and no real information or experience.
The man was an elite NFL quarterback for many years and played for two organizations that were successful, and we're to dismiss his observations? "No real information or experience?" OK, what "real information and experience" in the NFL do YOU have?
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Interesting. I have been scratching my head since Sunday wondering how the Browns staff could have gotten it so wrong. Clearly Sunday was NOT the time to put in a player who was in over his head. How could they have thought that he was ready? How could they have been so impatient now, when all teams are in playoff mode, to throw him to the wolves when they had been so patiently bringing him along to learn how to be a pro QB? Maybe what Bernie says has more merit than just first glance. It's far easier to just denigrate another Browns QB because it has now become "tradition". It's been obvious on this board from the moment he was drafted that he was getting the usual "Browns" welcome to the NFL, the place the rest of the nation jokingly refers to as the city where QB's come to die. Either properly let him grow into the position or trade him to someone like Dallas or Green Bay who will.
JFF has justifiably had to eat a plate full of humble pie this week. How about the staff give him a break and not make him eat two more plates full before making a premature decision for his long term future? And I agree with Bernie, it's far easier just to write off another QB rather than to look within to see what is wrong with a system that has eaten up 21 and counting since return to Cleveland.
George Santayana. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana (16 December 1863 in Madrid, Spain – 26 September 1952 in Rome, Italy) was a philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist.
Interesting. I have been scratching my head since Sunday wondering how the Browns staff could have gotten it so wrong. Clearly Sunday was NOT the time to put in a player who was in over his head. How could they have thought that he was? How could they have been so impatient now, when all teams are in playoff mode, to throw him to the wolves when they had been so patiently bringing him along to learn how to be a pro QB? Maybe what Bernie says has more merit that just first glance. It's far easier to just denigrate another Browns QB because it has now become "tradition". It's been obvious on this board from the moment he was drafted that he was getting the usual "Browns" welcome to the NFL, the place the rest of the nation jokingly refers to the city where QB's come to die. Either properly let him grow into the position or trade him to someone like Dallas or Green Bay who will.
JFF has justifiably had to eat a plate full of humble pie this week. How about the staff give him a break and not make him eat two more plates full before making a premature decision for his long term future?
Bingo! And even three games isn't enough. Why the chronic impatience in Browns Town? No team goes from mediocre to the top in a few weeks.
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