Free Agency
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The only question I would have about Suh's effectiveness is having him under a 2gap assignment which is sometimes what Pettine calls for. He's the type of guy you want to line up and say "go get it" I have no doubt he (Suh) would be effective as a 1gap lineman anywhere on the formation, obviously most effective 1-3 tech. His on field antics and temper can cost him both literally and figuratively, but he's about to be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid lineman in the NFL. I have a feeling we can get better value for a younger player in the draft.
The only question I would have about Suh's effectiveness is having him under a 2gap assignment which is sometimes what Pettine calls for. He's the type of guy you want to line up and say "go get it" I have no doubt he (Suh) would be effective as a 1gap lineman anywhere on the formation, obviously most effective 1-3 tech.
In a larger sense, does Pet's scheme require the outstanding individual D-line efforts that Suh can provide or is it more of a role fulfillment scheme?
I see it more of the latter and while Pet's scheme can't be executed by any talentless schlep, it does not require Suh-level talent. I'm also not sure Suh would be happy as a role player; not sure that he would sacrifice individual opportunity for the sake of scheme success.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
The only question I would have about Suh's effectiveness is having him under a 2gap assignment which is sometimes what Pettine calls for. He's the type of guy you want to line up and say "go get it" I have no doubt he (Suh) would be effective as a 1gap lineman anywhere on the formation, obviously most effective 1-3 tech.
In a larger sense, does Pet's scheme require the outstanding individual D-line efforts that Suh can provide or is it more of a role fulfillment scheme?
I see it more of the latter and while Pet's scheme can't be executed by any talentless schlep, it does not require Suh-level talent. I'm also not sure Suh would be happy as a role player; not sure that he would sacrifice individual opportunity for the sake of scheme success.
In a larger sense, does Pet's scheme require the outstanding individual D-line efforts that Suh can provide or is it more of a role fulfillment scheme?
I see it more of the latter and while Pet's scheme can't be executed by any talentless schlep, it does not require Suh-level talent. I'm also not sure Suh would be happy as a role player; not sure that he would sacrifice individual opportunity for the sake of scheme success.
Role fulfillment, yes. As you say, no schlep's. Fact is, with the way the league is calling any ticky-tack contact as interference (Unless you're Detroit) having a strong pass rush to disrupt the QB has never been more important.
Again, I don't believe Suh will land in Cleveland. I don't really want the massive cap hit that would come with it. But role players must be able to stop the run and rush the passer - some can do it better than others. I prefer to have the ones that do it better.
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Was thinking the WR crop looks very fine this year in terms of FA's......and dont see farmer signing a superstar like Dez Bryant....but a few that caught me eye and would fit in well were...
Torrey Smith...who I think could be our #1 no sweat
Michael Crabtree....solid/dependable and would be a good system receiver
Cecil Shorts ...my dark horse
...probably not #1 material, but a good fit for us none the less. AND he REALLY wants to be here. I say go get him!And Ill take Thomas or Bryant, but somehow dont see that happening.ha!
Was thinking the WR crop looks very fine this year in terms of FA's......and dont see farmer signing a superstar like Dez Bryant....but a few that caught me eye and would fit in well were...
Torrey Smith...who I think could be our #1 no sweat
Michael Crabtree....solid/dependable and would be a good system receiver
Cecil Shorts ...my dark horse
...probably not #1 material, but a good fit for us none the less. AND he REALLY wants to be here. I say go get him!And Ill take Thomas or Bryant, but somehow dont see that happening.ha!
we haven't had anyone close to those guys you mentioned since the comeback in 99...maybe shorts, errrrr maybe not...i'm not including gordon in this conversation because talent wise he might be as good as those guys, but character wise, he sucks...he will be out of football soon anyway..he has issues and it seems like they are not being addressed...what a waste...we are not going to the superbowl and maybe not even the playoffs with our current receivers...they are just too small...they are smurfs that try hard, but they ain't goin to no probowl..i think they are situational at best...we need 2 big guys ala alshon jefferies, bryant, megatron etc...without that,we'll suffer...but i don't know who is available and who really wants to come into the situation with the browns...because really right now, they are in disarray....again...
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While I wouldn't be disappointed if we did sign Suh, I would be very shocked. He's clearly talented, and I think his skill set is one that works basically whatever you ask of him on the DL, but I really can't see how it fits in with the 'Play Like a Brown' philosophy.
While I wouldn't be disappointed if we did sign Suh, I would be very shocked. He's clearly talented, and I think his skill set is one that works basically whatever you ask of him on the DL, but I really can't see how it fits in with the 'Play Like a Brown' philosophy.
don't want him...although, he'd be the best dl we ever had since the comeback...our dl stinks to high heaven.....but still, its very possible he does something dumb again and gets a major suspension...
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Some guys I think we should target:
DT Suh
OG Iapati
WR Bowe
QB Locker
Zombo
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Zombo said:
Some guys I think we should target:
DT Suh
OG Iapati
WR Bowe
QB Locker
Zombo
Too expensive
No Thanks
Ehhh
No thank you.
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Look at the good teams. (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indy, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, etc)
They build it though the draft. Let the suckers like the Jets and Redskins spend all that goofy money in Free Agency.
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Look at the good teams. (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indy, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, etc)
They build it though the draft. Let the suckers like the Jets and Redskins spend all that goofy money in Free Agency.
Look at the good teams. (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indy, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, etc)
They build it though the draft. Let the suckers like the Jets and Redskins spend all that goofy money in Free Agency.
New England has relied heavily on two, higher paid, FA CB's.
Baltimore with Canty, Dumervil, Forsett and Monroe.
Indy - Jackson, then trades for Trent and Davis.
Green Bay - Ehh... Peppers. They might be your best example.
Denver. I mean, you've got to be kidding, right?
Seattle went out and got Avril and Bennett.
Dallas, another decent example. Of course a good portion of their mid tier defense were/are journeyman players.
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Look at the good teams. (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indy, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, etc)
They build it though the draft. Let the suckers like the Jets and Redskins spend all that goofy money in Free Agency.
New England has relied heavily on two, higher paid, FA CB's.
Baltimore with Canty, Dumervil, Forsett and Monroe.
Indy - Jackson, then trades for Trent and Davis.
Green Bay - Ehh... Peppers. They might be your best example.
Denver. I mean, you've got to be kidding, right?
Seattle went out and got Avril and Bennett.
Dallas, another decent example. Of course a good portion of their mid tier defense were/are journeyman players.
New England has relied heavily on two, higher paid, FA CB's.
Baltimore with Canty, Dumervil, Forsett and Monroe.
Indy - Jackson, then trades for Trent and Davis.
Green Bay - Ehh... Peppers. They might be your best example.
Denver. I mean, you've got to be kidding, right?
Seattle went out and got Avril and Bennett.
Dallas, another decent example. Of course a good portion of their mid tier defense were/are journeyman players.
Yes some of these teams have some decent signing but the reason they have maintained continuity over the past 5-10 years is drafting well.
New England has drafted well and drafted a guy named Tom Brady
Baltimore: Flacco, Gnata, Torey Smith, Mosley, Suggs, Osemele, (Reed & Lewis too),
Indy: Luck, Manning, Wayne, Hilton, Fleener, Matheis, Sanders, Bethea,
Green Bay: Rogers, Nelson, Ragji, Mathews, Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Finley, Balugua, Lacy, Cobb, Sherrod
Denver: Yes Peyton Manning was a free agent but a rare signing to an already gifted team. He fell into their lap.
Seattle: Wilson, Sherman, Chancellor, Baldwin, Thomas, Unger, Okung, Wager,
Dallas: Witten, Ware, Bryant, Lee, Smith, Murray, Williams, Frederick, Martin, Lawrence, and Romo was UDFA right?
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Zombo said:
Some guys I think we should target:
DT Suh
OG Iapati
WR Bowe
QB Locker
Zombo
I DO NOT want Bowe on our team. He's useless. Suh is too expensive and is not the best fit for us.
Here's my early list:
QBs - Locker, Sanchez, Hoyer, Ponder... really anybody that can at least compete with Manziel for the starting job
WRs - Cobb, Maclin, Torrey Smith (but none of these guys will probably hit the market). I'd take a shot at Britt, Tate, and of course re-signing Austin
TEs - Clay or of course Cameron or both... I'd prefer both
OG - Orlando Franklin, Iupati, or Boling (but I bet at least 2 of them will re-sign with their teams). Replacing Greco in the starting lineup is not a bad idea for adding depth. He'd be a great 6th lineman because of his versatility.
OT - Bulaga (risky b/c of injury). Schwartz has not been consistent enough. We could use somebody to challenge him for his spot at RT, but it may be better to draft somebody b/c JT isn't getting any younger.
NT - D.Williams and drafting somebody... early
OLB - Worilds, Acho, McPhee, or even re-signing Sheard even though I don't think he's the best fit. Another draft pick on this position.
FS - Gipson (This is a must). Maybe even add somebody like Searcy or Landry to replace Leonhard.
Obviously we can't get ALL these guys, and most of them will stay where they are but this is my early list of targets...
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Look at the good teams. (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indy, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, etc)
They build it though the draft. Let the suckers like the Jets and Redskins spend all that goofy money in Free Agency.
Look at the good teams. (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indy, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, etc)
They build it though the draft. Let the suckers like the Jets and Redskins spend all that goofy money in Free Agency.
You have to do both FA and the draft... and you have to do them well...
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Gipson is a no brainer, we can't allow him to walk.
Cameron is an interesting case. He would have to agree to an incentive laden contract in order for it to make sense for the team. I would like to see him back, but he will probably find a cozy dome to play in. He is a west coast boy after all.
Skrine would be nice to bring back. He played surprisingly well this year, but it was a contract year and he will command more than he's worth. Williams handled the slot well enough that we don't need to throw money at Skrine.
I like Rubin, but he makes too much money for someone we can replace with Kitchen for a fraction of the cost. I think Taylor and Hughes need to man the NT position so that makes Rubin the odd man out.
Bademosi, Moore, and Seymour have value as special teams and depth, but the rest of the guys I have no interest in. I know there's a couple fan favorites like Hoyer and Robertson, but we need to upgrade and not over pay mediocre (being generous) talent.
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It feels dirty saying this, but I like Locker in this offense. He has huge untapped potential and he never had very many weapons. It helps that he should sign for backup money.
Orakpo is another buy low guy. If people are scared off by his injuries, than I would jump all over that guy. Give him a garunteed 1 year deal to prove himself and sit back and watch him rack up double digit sacks.
Eddie Royal is a guy we really need to look at. I have always thought he was underrated. He's rounding 30 but he's still productive and won't be seeking a ton of money.
Adrian Clayborne and Dquan Bowers have been labeled as busts, but they have talent and they have good size to play 3-4 DE. They should be cheap so if they don't work out no biggie.
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Look at the good teams. (New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Green Bay, Indy, Denver, Seattle, Dallas, etc)
They build it though the draft. Let the suckers like the Jets and Redskins spend all that goofy money in Free Agency.
New England has relied heavily on two, higher paid, FA CB's.
Baltimore with Canty, Dumervil, Forsett and Monroe.
Indy - Jackson, then trades for Trent and Davis.
Green Bay - Ehh... Peppers. They might be your best example.
Denver. I mean, you've got to be kidding, right?
Seattle went out and got Avril and Bennett.
Dallas, another decent example. Of course a good portion of their mid tier defense were/are journeyman players.
New England has relied heavily on two, higher paid, FA CB's.
Baltimore with Canty, Dumervil, Forsett and Monroe.
Indy - Jackson, then trades for Trent and Davis.
Green Bay - Ehh... Peppers. They might be your best example.
Denver. I mean, you've got to be kidding, right?
Seattle went out and got Avril and Bennett.
Dallas, another decent example. Of course a good portion of their mid tier defense were/are journeyman players.
You'll find very few teams in that list who have built through free agency though. Most of these teams, other than the Packers, have looked to free agency to fill some roles, but their cores were built through the draft. The only team on the list that has significant personnel turnover are the Cowboys, and that's because they have a messy cap situation which forces them to sign players on minimum type deals.
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Gipson is a no brainer, we can't allow him to walk.
Cameron is an interesting case. He would have to agree to an incentive laden contract in order for it to make sense for the team. I would like to see him back, but he will probably find a cozy dome to play in. He is a west coast boy after all.
Skrine would be nice to bring back. He played surprisingly well this year, but it was a contract year and he will command more than he's worth. Williams handled the slot well enough that we don't need to throw money at Skrine.
I like Rubin, but he makes too much money for someone we can replace with Kitchen for a fraction of the cost. I think Taylor and Hughes need to man the NT position so that makes Rubin the odd man out.
Bademosi, Moore, and Seymour have value as special teams and depth, but the rest of the guys I have no interest in. I know there's a couple fan favorites like Hoyer and Robertson, but we need to upgrade and not over pay mediocre (being generous) talent.
Gipson is a no brainer, we can't allow him to walk.
Cameron is an interesting case. He would have to agree to an incentive laden contract in order for it to make sense for the team. I would like to see him back, but he will probably find a cozy dome to play in. He is a west coast boy after all.
Skrine would be nice to bring back. He played surprisingly well this year, but it was a contract year and he will command more than he's worth. Williams handled the slot well enough that we don't need to throw money at Skrine.
I like Rubin, but he makes too much money for someone we can replace with Kitchen for a fraction of the cost. I think Taylor and Hughes need to man the NT position so that makes Rubin the odd man out.
Bademosi, Moore, and Seymour have value as special teams and depth, but the rest of the guys I have no interest in. I know there's a couple fan favorites like Hoyer and Robertson, but we need to upgrade and not over pay mediocre (being generous) talent.
I like Skrine but I'll be very interested to see what type of deals he gets thrown his way. He's statistically one of the better corners in the NFL but I don't think someone would bring him in as a #1.
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Zombo said:
Some guys I think we should target:
DT Suh
OG Iapati
WR Bowe
QB Locker
Zombo
I DO NOT want Bowe on our team. He's useless. Suh is too expensive and is not the best fit for us.
Here's my early list:
QBs - Locker, Sanchez, Hoyer, Ponder... really anybody that can at least compete with Manziel for the starting job
WRs - Cobb, Maclin, Torrey Smith (but none of these guys will probably hit the market). I'd take a shot at Britt, Tate, and of course re-signing Austin
TEs - Clay or of course Cameron or both... I'd prefer both
OG - Orlando Franklin, Iupati, or Boling (but I bet at least 2 of them will re-sign with their teams). Replacing Greco in the starting lineup is not a bad idea for adding depth. He'd be a great 6th lineman because of his versatility.
OT - Bulaga (risky b/c of injury). Schwartz has not been consistent enough. We could use somebody to challenge him for his spot at RT, but it may be better to draft somebody b/c JT isn't getting any younger.
NT - D.Williams and drafting somebody... early
OLB - Worilds, Acho, McPhee, or even re-signing Sheard even though I don't think he's the best fit. Another draft pick on this position.
FS - Gipson (This is a must). Maybe even add somebody like Searcy or Landry to replace Leonhard.
Obviously we can't get ALL these guys, and most of them will stay where they are but this is my early list of targets...
I DO NOT want Bowe on our team. He's useless. Suh is too expensive and is not the best fit for us.
He's a big body and he should be pretty cheap. I think he has more wear on the titre left than Austin.
Here's my early list:
QBs - Locker, Sanchez, Hoyer, Ponder... really anybody that can at least compete with Manziel for the starting job
Yes, yes, yes ... no on Ponder, but his wife is hot.
When you keep swinging and mising on first round QBs this is where you are, picking through the trash. But I think Locker maybe has the most potential and if Shanny satys, best suited for this offense.
WRs - Cobb, Maclin, Torrey Smith (but none of these guys will probably hit the market). I'd take a shot at Britt, Tate, and of course re-signing Austin
Austin is a professional, but can he be counted on anymore? I dn't think we go for a big-name free agent here, grab a middle of th eroad vet with size and adress the position in the draft.
TEs - Clay or of course Cameron or both... I'd prefer both
I've always be a big fan of Clay, Dolphins underutilized him, and #42 looks cool on a TE.
OG - Orlando Franklin, Iupati, or Boling (but I bet at least 2 of them will re-sign with their teams). Replacing Greco in the starting lineup is not a bad idea for adding depth. He'd be a great 6th lineman because of his versatility.
I totally agree. I'm sure Greco doesn't.
OT - Bulaga (risky b/c of injury). Schwartz has not been consistent enough. We could use somebody to challenge him for his spot at RT, but it may be better to draft somebody b/c JT isn't getting any younger.
Schwartz is fine, we need depth, expect a first day pick to groom at both LT and RT, Joe is getting some age on him unfortunately.
NT - D.Williams and drafting somebody... early
We don't want Suh because he is too expensive? Who has more cap space than us? Now he might not want us, that I could see, he might like a high profile team, we certainly aren't that yet.
OLB - Worilds, Acho, McPhee, or even re-signing Sheard even though I don't think he's the best fit. Another draft pick on this position.
Sheard has been a bit of a square peg and I think there is better value out there, maybe we draft a pass rusher to develop behind Mingo and Kruger.
FS - Gipson (This is a must). Maybe even add somebody like Searcy or Landry to replace Leonhard.
Ya, there will be torches and pitchforks if they don't re-sign this up-and-coming star that we developed from Wyoming project
Obviously we can't get ALL these guys, and most of them will stay where they are but this is my early list of targets...
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A pass rusher who played for Pettine.
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Draft, Draft, Draft, Draft.
Ya gotta get some cheap pieces that can help your team and although I think Farmer fucked up last years first round, Bitonio, West, Desir and Kirksey were all very smart picks. If he would have added a Shazier and a big WR that draft would have been damn near perfect.
You can add a high profile FA when you are missing that one piece.
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A pass rusher who played for Pettine.
A pass rusher who played for Pettine.
Didn't work out as 3-4 OLB with the Colts, don't see him as an option for the Browns unless a change to a 4-3 is upcoming.
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A pass rusher who played for Pettine.
Didn't work out as 3-4 OLB with the Colts, don't see him as an option for the Browns unless a change to a 4-3 is upcoming.
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