fail for cardale
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I'd feel a lot better about this tactic if the OP wasn't one of JFF's biggest supporters until he played 6 quarters of football...
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Have you seen the video of him hitting some dude? Kid is a monster.
My point exactly. With all the picks he will throw, he might as well hit hard enough to make defensive players fumble so the team can get the ball back!
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Like the colts did?
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I'd feel a lot better about this tactic if the OP wasn't one of JFF's biggest supporters until he played 6 quarters of football...
I'd feel a lot better about this tactic if the OP wasn't one of JFF's biggest supporters until he played 6 quarters of football...
Jeez how dare I want the browns to explore every available Avenue to play well?
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Have you seen the video of him hitting some dude? Kid is a monster.
My point exactly. With all the picks he will throw, he might as well hit hard enough to make defensive players fumble so the team can get the ball back!
My point exactly. With all the picks he will throw, he might as well hit hard enough to make defensive players fumble so the team can get the ball back!
Yeah, all 2% of his passes.
Nice try, fucktard.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I'd feel a lot better about this tactic if the OP wasn't one of JFF's biggest supporters until he played 6 quarters of football...
Jeez how dare I want the browns to explore every available Avenue to play well?
Jeez how dare I want the browns to explore every available Avenue to play well?
Lol, just bustin your chops for the epic 180, no biggie.
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Yeah, all 2% of his passes.
Nice try, fucktard.
Since you want to bring up stats, Geno Smith threw picks in 1.4% of his pass attempts during his three seasons as a starter in college. He threw 31 picks in 30 games in his first two NFL seasons.
Jones threw picks on 2.7% of his attempts in a much smaller sample. He won't have the best running back in the country rushing for 230 yards and 3 TDs a game once he turns pro. It's fair to assume his interception total will increase once he is forced to throw the ball more against better defensive players and coaches.
Of course we don't have to be objective about this. It seems like you prefer resorting to name calling like a twelve year old surfing the internet for the first time...
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Yeah, all 2% of his passes.
Nice try, fucktard.
Since you want to bring up stats, Geno Smith threw picks in 1.4% of his pass attempts during his three seasons as a starter in college. He threw 31 picks in 30 games in his first two NFL seasons.
Jones threw picks on 2.7% of his attempts in a much smaller sample. He won't have the best running back in the country rushing for 230 yards and 3 TDs a game once he turns pro. It's fair to assume his interception total will increase once he is forced to throw the ball more against better defensive players and coaches.
Of course we don't have to be objective about this. It seems like you prefer resorting to name calling like a twelve year old surfing the internet for the first time...
Since you want to bring up stats, Geno Smith threw picks in 1.4% of his pass attempts during his three seasons as a starter in college. He threw 31 picks in 30 games in his first two NFL seasons.
Jones threw picks on 2.7% of his attempts in a much smaller sample. He won't have the best running back in the country rushing for 230 yards and 3 TDs a game once he turns pro. It's fair to assume his interception total will increase once he is forced to throw the ball more against better defensive players and coaches.
Of course we don't have to be objective about this. It seems like you prefer resorting to name calling like a twelve year old surfing the internet for the first time...
The difference being that the WVU offense was a much more horizontal passing game with built in screens, quick outs and slants.
Compare to the OSU passing game that's a more downfield, vertical threat. Higher risk of picks when you travel further down the field.
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Since you want to bring up stats, Geno Smith threw picks in 1.4% of his pass attempts during his three seasons as a starter in college. He threw 31 picks in 30 games in his first two NFL seasons.
Jones threw picks on 2.7% of his attempts in a much smaller sample. He won't have the best running back in the country rushing for 230 yards and 3 TDs a game once he turns pro. It's fair to assume his interception total will increase once he is forced to throw the ball more against better defensive players and coaches.
Of course we don't have to be objective about this. It seems like you prefer resorting to name calling like a twelve year old surfing the internet for the first time...
The difference being that the WVU offense was a much more horizontal passing game with built in screens, quick outs and slants.
Compare to the OSU passing game that's a more downfield, vertical threat. Higher risk of picks when you travel further down the field.
The difference being that the WVU offense was a much more horizontal passing game with built in screens, quick outs and slants.
Compare to the OSU passing game that's a more downfield, vertical threat. Higher risk of picks when you travel further down the field.
That's true, but there's other things to take into account as well, like teams playing with extra men in the box to stop Ezekiel Elliot and giving Jones more one to one match-ups down the field. Jones threw twice as many picks on a per attempt basis, that seems to account for the more vertical passing game.
If you extend his picks/attempt % to 500 attempts, which is about the NFL average over 16 games, that's 13 picks. Add the fact that he's transitioning to the pros and facing better defenses, it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to expect him to throw 13-16 picks over an entire season.
I get that people would love to have a Cleveland guy playing QB for the Browns, I just don't see all the hype. There's a reason he was the third string quarterback heading into the season. JT Barrett will be the starting quarterback at OSU come August and people will be forgetting about the guy until he declares for the draft or transfers elsewhere.
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Yeah, all 2% of his passes.
Nice try, fucktard.
Since you want to bring up stats, Geno Smith threw picks in 1.4% of his pass attempts during his three seasons as a starter in college. He threw 31 picks in 30 games in his first two NFL seasons.
Jones threw picks on 2.7% of his attempts in a much smaller sample. He won't have the best running back in the country rushing for 230 yards and 3 TDs a game once he turns pro. It's fair to assume his interception total will increase once he is forced to throw the ball more against better defensive players and coaches.
Of course we don't have to be objective about this. It seems like you prefer resorting to name calling like a twelve year old surfing the internet for the first time...
Since you want to bring up stats, Geno Smith threw picks in 1.4% of his pass attempts during his three seasons as a starter in college. He threw 31 picks in 30 games in his first two NFL seasons.
Jones threw picks on 2.7% of his attempts in a much smaller sample. He won't have the best running back in the country rushing for 230 yards and 3 TDs a game once he turns pro. It's fair to assume his interception total will increase once he is forced to throw the ball more against better defensive players and coaches.
Of course we don't have to be objective about this. It seems like you prefer resorting to name calling like a twelve year old surfing the internet for the first time...
Right, and the quality of teams teams Geno and Cardale faced were equal, right? I forgot that West Virginia's schedule during those three years was just a revolving schedule of Alabama, Wisconsin and Oregon and that they were competing for a National Championship every year.
Cardale didn't have the liberty of playing teams like Liberty, ECU, Colorado, Syracuse, Marshall, UConn, Coastal Carolina, UNLV and Norfolk State.
I'd take a small sample size of tremendous success against three of the best 6 teams in the nation over 3 years against garbage Big East and FCS teams. But then again, that's just me.
You were actually on to something with that whole comparison thing. It's always been best practice among scouts and analysts to compare players from different programs, offensive philosophies and with completely different skill sets. That's how you get the best scouting profile, actually.
So here's some more:
Peyton Manning - 2.3%
Tom Brady - 2.6%
Brett Favre - 2.9%
Dan Marino - 5.7%
Ben Roethlisberger - 2.6%
John Elway - 3.1%
Tim Tebow - 1.6%
Graham Harrell -1.6%
Clearly, Cardale is doomed for failure since he's got a 2.6% interception percentage coming off the bench in three postseason games. If only he could drop that percentage down to the mid 1's. As we all know, the only way to be a successful quarterback in the NFL is to leave college with an interception percentage lower than 2%.
(That's the thing about stats - you can use them to fit any argument. And I'm just better at it than you.)
I know it's silly to think that Cardale will have a runningback of Ezekiel Elliot's caliber once he hits the pros. There's very few runningbacks of that talent level at the professional level of football. We all know that the most talented runningbacks move to Canada and become librarians once their college days are over.
Cardale is going to have a wake up call. Soon he'll be entering a league where teams rarely have solid runningbacks, the running game is rarely ever used, and they throw the ball 50 times per game. I hope he's ready for that.
I'm sorry, we're you saying something?
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Since you want to bring up stats, Geno Smith threw picks in 1.4% of his pass attempts during his three seasons as a starter in college. He threw 31 picks in 30 games in his first two NFL seasons.
Jones threw picks on 2.7% of his attempts in a much smaller sample. He won't have the best running back in the country rushing for 230 yards and 3 TDs a game once he turns pro. It's fair to assume his interception total will increase once he is forced to throw the ball more against better defensive players and coaches.
Of course we don't have to be objective about this. It seems like you prefer resorting to name calling like a twelve year old surfing the internet for the first time...
Right, and the quality of teams teams Geno and Cardale faced were equal, right? I forgot that West Virginia's schedule during those three years was just a revolving schedule of Alabama, Wisconsin and Oregon and that they were competing for a National Championship every year.
Cardale didn't have the liberty of playing teams like Liberty, ECU, Colorado, Syracuse, Marshall, UConn, Coastal Carolina, UNLV and Norfolk State.
I'd take a small sample size of tremendous success against three of the best 6 teams in the nation over 3 years against garbage Big East and FCS teams. But then again, that's just me.
You were actually on to something with that whole comparison thing. It's always been best practice among scouts and analysts to compare players from different programs, offensive philosophies and with completely different skill sets. That's how you get the best scouting profile, actually.
So here's some more:
Peyton Manning - 2.3%
Tom Brady - 2.6%
Brett Favre - 2.9%
Dan Marino - 5.7%
Ben Roethlisberger - 2.6%
John Elway - 3.1%
Tim Tebow - 1.6%
Graham Harrell -1.6%
Clearly, Cardale is doomed for failure since he's got a 2.6% interception percentage coming off the bench in three postseason games. If only he could drop that percentage down to the mid 1's. As we all know, the only way to be a successful quarterback in the NFL is to leave college with an interception percentage lower than 2%.
(That's the thing about stats - you can use them to fit any argument. And I'm just better at it than you.)
I know it's silly to think that Cardale will have a runningback of Ezekiel Elliot's caliber once he hits the pros. There's very few runningbacks of that talent level at the professional level of football. We all know that the most talented runningbacks move to Canada and become librarians once their college days are over.
Cardale is going to have a wake up call. Soon he'll be entering a league where teams rarely have solid runningbacks, the running game is rarely ever used, and they throw the ball 50 times per game. I hope he's ready for that.
I'm sorry, we're you saying something?
Right, and the quality of teams teams Geno and Cardale faced were equal, right? I forgot that West Virginia's schedule during those three years was just a revolving schedule of Alabama, Wisconsin and Oregon and that they were competing for a National Championship every year.
Cardale didn't have the liberty of playing teams like Liberty, ECU, Colorado, Syracuse, Marshall, UConn, Coastal Carolina, UNLV and Norfolk State.
I'd take a small sample size of tremendous success against three of the best 6 teams in the nation over 3 years against garbage Big East and FCS teams. But then again, that's just me.
You were actually on to something with that whole comparison thing. It's always been best practice among scouts and analysts to compare players from different programs, offensive philosophies and with completely different skill sets. That's how you get the best scouting profile, actually.
So here's some more:
Peyton Manning - 2.3%
Tom Brady - 2.6%
Brett Favre - 2.9%
Dan Marino - 5.7%
Ben Roethlisberger - 2.6%
John Elway - 3.1%
Tim Tebow - 1.6%
Graham Harrell -1.6%
Clearly, Cardale is doomed for failure since he's got a 2.6% interception percentage coming off the bench in three postseason games. If only he could drop that percentage down to the mid 1's. As we all know, the only way to be a successful quarterback in the NFL is to leave college with an interception percentage lower than 2%.
(That's the thing about stats - you can use them to fit any argument. And I'm just better at it than you.)
I know it's silly to think that Cardale will have a runningback of Ezekiel Elliot's caliber once he hits the pros. There's very few runningbacks of that talent level at the professional level of football. We all know that the most talented runningbacks move to Canada and become librarians once their college days are over.
Cardale is going to have a wake up call. Soon he'll be entering a league where teams rarely have solid runningbacks, the running game is rarely ever used, and they throw the ball 50 times per game. I hope he's ready for that.
I'm sorry, we're you saying something?
Hard to say you're better than at using stats since you seem to be ignoring my argument completely.
First off, interceptions have nothing to do with success, Eli Manning throws a bunch of them and he's got two rings. Secondly, I brought up Geno Smith because he had a lower interception % than Cardale and tougher transition to the NFL considering the teams he faced. Smith's interception total tripled from WV to his first two seasons with the Jets. I'm not saying that will happen to Cardale, but it's fairly reasonable to expect it to at least stay the same in his first few seasons. Extend that to 500 pass attempts per season, which is about the NFL average, and you get 13 picks. That's 31 pass attempts per game, not 50.
Ezekiel Elliot is the best running back in college football and he's far better than the competition he's facing on defense, even against some of the best teams in the country. Is he better than all of the running backs in the NFL? Absolutely not. However, there isn't a running back in the NFL who is as good as Elliot relative to the competition he faces. Also, when you consider there are teams starting Boom Herron or Toby Gerhart at running back, it's safe to say losing Elliot is a downgrade in some situations.
If you recall, you're the one who called me a fucktard. If you took a look at a couple of my posts, you'd see I'm a Packers fan first and foremost. I'm used to seeing Rodgers play and the guy has the lowest interception percentage in NFL history. Forgive me for thinking that going from 6 picks a year to 13 qualifies as "all those picks". Perhaps before insulting me you could have, at the very least, considered that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment...
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Right, and the quality of teams teams Geno and Cardale faced were equal, right? I forgot that West Virginia's schedule during those three years was just a revolving schedule of Alabama, Wisconsin and Oregon and that they were competing for a National Championship every year.
Cardale didn't have the liberty of playing teams like Liberty, ECU, Colorado, Syracuse, Marshall, UConn, Coastal Carolina, UNLV and Norfolk State.
I'd take a small sample size of tremendous success against three of the best 6 teams in the nation over 3 years against garbage Big East and FCS teams. But then again, that's just me.
You were actually on to something with that whole comparison thing. It's always been best practice among scouts and analysts to compare players from different programs, offensive philosophies and with completely different skill sets. That's how you get the best scouting profile, actually.
So here's some more:
Peyton Manning - 2.3%
Tom Brady - 2.6%
Brett Favre - 2.9%
Dan Marino - 5.7%
Ben Roethlisberger - 2.6%
John Elway - 3.1%
Tim Tebow - 1.6%
Graham Harrell -1.6%
Clearly, Cardale is doomed for failure since he's got a 2.6% interception percentage coming off the bench in three postseason games. If only he could drop that percentage down to the mid 1's. As we all know, the only way to be a successful quarterback in the NFL is to leave college with an interception percentage lower than 2%.
(That's the thing about stats - you can use them to fit any argument. And I'm just better at it than you.)
I know it's silly to think that Cardale will have a runningback of Ezekiel Elliot's caliber once he hits the pros. There's very few runningbacks of that talent level at the professional level of football. We all know that the most talented runningbacks move to Canada and become librarians once their college days are over.
Cardale is going to have a wake up call. Soon he'll be entering a league where teams rarely have solid runningbacks, the running game is rarely ever used, and they throw the ball 50 times per game. I hope he's ready for that.
I'm sorry, we're you saying something?
Hard to say you're better than at using stats since you seem to be ignoring my argument completely.
First off, interceptions have nothing to do with success, Eli Manning throws a bunch of them and he's got two rings. Secondly, I brought up Geno Smith because he had a lower interception % than Cardale and tougher transition to the NFL considering the teams he faced. Smith's interception total tripled from WV to his first two seasons with the Jets. I'm not saying that will happen to Cardale, but it's fairly reasonable to expect it to at least stay the same in his first few seasons. Extend that to 500 pass attempts per season, which is about the NFL average, and you get 13 picks. That's 31 pass attempts per game, not 50.
Ezekiel Elliot is the best running back in college football and he's far better than the competition he's facing on defense, even against some of the best teams in the country. Is he better than all of the running backs in the NFL? Absolutely not. However, there isn't a running back in the NFL who is as good as Elliot relative to the competition he faces. Also, when you consider there are teams starting Boom Herron or Toby Gerhart at running back, it's safe to say losing Elliot is a downgrade in some situations.
If you recall, you're the one who called me a fucktard. If you took a look at a couple of my posts, you'd see I'm a Packers fan first and foremost. I'm used to seeing Rodgers play and the guy has the lowest interception percentage in NFL history. Forgive me for thinking that going from 6 picks a year to 13 qualifies as "all those picks". Perhaps before insulting me you could have, at the very least, considered that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment...
Hard to say you're better than at using stats since you seem to be ignoring my argument completely.
First off, interceptions have nothing to do with success, Eli Manning throws a bunch of them and he's got two rings. Secondly, I brought up Geno Smith because he had a lower interception % than Cardale and tougher transition to the NFL considering the teams he faced. Smith's interception total tripled from WV to his first two seasons with the Jets. I'm not saying that will happen to Cardale, but it's fairly reasonable to expect it to at least stay the same in his first few seasons. Extend that to 500 pass attempts per season, which is about the NFL average, and you get 13 picks. That's 31 pass attempts per game, not 50.
Ezekiel Elliot is the best running back in college football and he's far better than the competition he's facing on defense, even against some of the best teams in the country. Is he better than all of the running backs in the NFL? Absolutely not. However, there isn't a running back in the NFL who is as good as Elliot relative to the competition he faces. Also, when you consider there are teams starting Boom Herron or Toby Gerhart at running back, it's safe to say losing Elliot is a downgrade in some situations.
If you recall, you're the one who called me a fucktard. If you took a look at a couple of my posts, you'd see I'm a Packers fan first and foremost. I'm used to seeing Rodgers play and the guy has the lowest interception percentage in NFL history. Forgive me for thinking that going from 6 picks a year to 13 qualifies as "all those picks". Perhaps before insulting me you could have, at the very least, considered that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment...
Fair enough.
You've proven to be the opposite of a fucktard.
You're now among the four or five people here that I actually think can carry on a real football conversation.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
The difference being that the WVU offense was a much more horizontal passing game with built in screens, quick outs and slants.
Compare to the OSU passing game that's a more downfield, vertical threat. Higher risk of picks when you travel further down the field.
That's true, but there's other things to take into account as well, like teams playing with extra men in the box to stop Ezekiel Elliot and giving Jones more one to one match-ups down the field. Jones threw twice as many picks on a per attempt basis, that seems to account for the more vertical passing game.
If you extend his picks/attempt % to 500 attempts, which is about the NFL average over 16 games, that's 13 picks. Add the fact that he's transitioning to the pros and facing better defenses, it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to expect him to throw 13-16 picks over an entire season.
I get that people would love to have a Cleveland guy playing QB for the Browns, I just don't see all the hype. There's a reason he was the third string quarterback heading into the season. JT Barrett will be the starting quarterback at OSU come August and people will be forgetting about the guy until he declares for the draft or transfers elsewhere.
That's true, but there's other things to take into account as well, like teams playing with extra men in the box to stop Ezekiel Elliot and giving Jones more one to one match-ups down the field. Jones threw twice as many picks on a per attempt basis, that seems to account for the more vertical passing game.
If you extend his picks/attempt % to 500 attempts, which is about the NFL average over 16 games, that's 13 picks. Add the fact that he's transitioning to the pros and facing better defenses, it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to expect him to throw 13-16 picks over an entire season.
I get that people would love to have a Cleveland guy playing QB for the Browns...
First, the local thing is just a cherry on top. Outsiders always think it is a much bigger deal than it is. If I had a dollar for every JM-lovin' Aggie that proclaimed local-boy Hoyer only got my support because...
Second, you hold out 13 INTs as if that's a bad total for an NFL season. It's not. Nine full-time starters including a few franchise to great QBs threw more. Many more threw 10 to 13. Yes, fewer INTs is better, but only a few NFL starters (Rodgers 5, Smith 6, Wilson 7, and BigBen/ Brady 9) managed to stay in single digits.
Other factors are of much greater import than a mere total. These would include timing of the INTs, i.e., their game impact, but you can't capture those in simple stats. But TD:INT ratio is a "capturable" stat as is INT frequency with the added advantage of the latter (taken in combination with attempts) reflecting a team's ability to run the ball.
Offer me 30-ish TDs and 13 INTs for a season. It's not Aaron's 38/5, but I'll take it.
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Hard to say you're better than at using stats since you seem to be ignoring my argument completely.
First off, interceptions have nothing to do with success, Eli Manning throws a bunch of them and he's got two rings. Secondly, I brought up Geno Smith because he had a lower interception % than Cardale and tougher transition to the NFL considering the teams he faced. Smith's interception total tripled from WV to his first two seasons with the Jets. I'm not saying that will happen to Cardale, but it's fairly reasonable to expect it to at least stay the same in his first few seasons. Extend that to 500 pass attempts per season, which is about the NFL average, and you get 13 picks. That's 31 pass attempts per game, not 50.
Ezekiel Elliot is the best running back in college football and he's far better than the competition he's facing on defense, even against some of the best teams in the country. Is he better than all of the running backs in the NFL? Absolutely not. However, there isn't a running back in the NFL who is as good as Elliot relative to the competition he faces. Also, when you consider there are teams starting Boom Herron or Toby Gerhart at running back, it's safe to say losing Elliot is a downgrade in some situations.
If you recall, you're the one who called me a fucktard. If you took a look at a couple of my posts, you'd see I'm a Packers fan first and foremost. I'm used to seeing Rodgers play and the guy has the lowest interception percentage in NFL history. Forgive me for thinking that going from 6 picks a year to 13 qualifies as "all those picks". Perhaps before insulting me you could have, at the very least, considered that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment...
Fair enough.
You've proven to be the opposite of a fucktard.
You're now among the four or five people here that I actually think can carry on a real football conversation.
Fair enough.
You've proven to be the opposite of a fucktard.
You're now among the four or five people here that I actually think can carry on a real football conversation.
No worries man. I take it personally when people insult me because I try to add some value with my comments. I should probably avoid tongue in cheek comments and sarcasm on forums now that I think of it, it's always hard to figure out if someone is trolling or not, especially when you are new to a forum like in my case.
First, the local thing is just a cherry on top. Outsiders always think it is a much bigger deal than it is. If I had a dollar for every JM-lovin' Aggie that proclaimed local-boy Hoyer only got my support because...
Second, you hold out 13 INTs as if that's a bad total for an NFL season. It's not. Nine full-time starters including a few franchise to great QBs threw more. Many more threw 10 to 13. Yes, fewer INTs is better, but only a few NFL starters (Rodgers 5, Smith 6, Wilson 7, and BigBen/ Brady 9) managed to stay in single digits.
Other factors are of much greater import than a mere total. These would include timing of the INTs, i.e., their game impact, but you can't capture those in simple stats. But TD:INT ratio is a "capturable" stat as is INT frequency with the added advantage of the latter (taken in combination with attempts) reflecting a team's ability to run the ball.
Offer me 30-ish TDs and 13 INTs for a season. It's not Aaron's 38/5, but I'll take it.
That's the issue though, they're Manziel fans and nothing more. I was a fan of the guy back in college since I have no allegiance, but he needs to start fresh this offseason or he'll end up just like Vince Young.
I think 13 INTs is a fairly optimistic forecast considering the downgrade in the running game and the much better defenses he will play. At the same time you can argue that few teams will force a rookie QB to throw the ball 30 times a game if they can avoid it. Overall, I'm a fan of Cardale. I still think JT Barrett will be starting at QB next year, but Jones is an excellent pro prospect. It's hard to find a guy with such a strong arm and good touch.
My issue with the thread is the title and all the hype. I can understand something like this for Luck, who was basically guaranteed the top pick halfway through his sophomore season, but Cardale has played just three games as a starter and might not even start next season. I'm suggesting to cool off a little until he plays a few games. What's the point of tanking, which will force another organizational overhaul, for what is at the moment a promising, but still unknown, prospect?
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