Rebuilding an offense... again
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Im not sweating bullets. the core group of players are there. Cameron i suppose would suck to loose but he is on the concussion watch list. Gipson is Key. We need a QB a to fill in the pieces with the draft and FA.
Im more worried about wiffing on talent in the draft if farmer isnt going to be a part od the process.
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So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
I do not think a "rebuild" is necessary. The line could use some depth perhaps..but has all pro talent there. The receiving corps is fairly solid if unspectacular. The RBs could be good.
OK, a real QB, a top notch WR and TE would be in order.
Needing 2-3 skill players is what I call needing some tweeking....not rebuilding.
I do not think a "rebuild" is necessary. The line could use some depth perhaps..but has all pro talent there. The receiving corps is fairly solid if unspectacular. The RBs could be good.
OK, a real QB, a top notch WR and TE would be in order.
Needing 2-3 skill players is what I call needing some tweeking....not rebuilding.
Whether necessary or not, we are AGAIN going into the offseason with a new offensive system, and with a 1st time play-caller so we are esentially starting from scratch... It may help that we have some talent on the line, but the line itself doesn't move the football...
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I do not think a "rebuild" is necessary. The line could use some depth perhaps..but has all pro talent there. The receiving corps is fairly solid if unspectacular. The RBs could be good.
OK, a real QB, a top notch WR and TE would be in order.
Needing 2-3 skill players is what I call needing some tweeking....not rebuilding.
Whether necessary or not, we are AGAIN going into the offseason with a new offensive system, and with a 1st time play-caller so we are esentially starting from scratch... It may help that we have some talent on the line, but the line itself doesn't move the football...
Whether necessary or not, we are AGAIN going into the offseason with a new offensive system, and with a 1st time play-caller so we are esentially starting from scratch... It may help that we have some talent on the line, but the line itself doesn't move the football...
Well, when I hear the term "rebuild" I take that usually to mean that we have to do much to replace the talent that is in place.
I don't think that much of the talent that is in place needs to be replaced. It just needs to be augmented. Except, of course, as always, Quarterback.
The guys that are there can do a job. Hawkins and Benjamin and Gabriel etc. can play.....but, yea, a Gordon like WR to add to the mix would be very helpful. And Dray and Barnidge can do the job...but maybe a top rookie TE could be helpful. Etc.
To my view, if you have the talent....you can devise a system to fit the quality of that talent.....unless you are a completely untractable OC....which I do not think Filippo is.
You gotta have that quality triggerman, sure. That has been the Browns biggest problem. But at this point, in FA, in the draft....I am willing to work on strengthening all the other elements of the team......and then putting that cherry on top if we can find him at some point. I don't know that he is here. (including Hoyer)
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My problem with OL starts at Schwartz and anybody behind him. To fix at Guard though: FA-Jets-Willie Colon or Mike Iupati. Draft: Cam Erving plays every spot OL at FSU or G AJ Cann at 19 they are both gone at our pick 43.(Erving close) Later rounds more than suitable for our situation is duke Tomlinson at our pick 77 but at pick 77 WR PR KR Tyler Lockett at K State we cannot pass on.. I see G/C needed but not as bad as still seeing MINGO on the field attempting to play DEF. DT-1st pick Shelton. ILB- McKinney 2nd pick or Cam Erving
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So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
So, we know our defense is going to be pretty good again this coming year but whether we like it or not, we are re-building on offense... yet again. The roster on that side of the ball is "weak" at best and we have nearly an entire new coaching staff which means new system, new players they will covet, etc...
Nobody is a DeFilippo expert, and I doubt any of us really know what kind of system he wants to run so let me ask you guys what you might do with this team from a roster and system perspective?
Here is our current crop of o-linemen:
Tackles - Thomas (LT), Schwartz (RT), McQuistan, A.McDonald, Bowie
Guards - Bitonio (LG), Greco (RG), Barton, Painter
Centers - Mack
, McDonald, Hughlett (LS)Is there a weak spot in that starting 5? If so, how much do you invest to improve this line? Not only that, but what kind of blocking scheme fits these guys best? In my opinion, this is a solid group but need a versatile G/T player in case we lose another starter next year... McQuiston is NOT that guy...
Here are our "skill position" players:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin, R.Smith, Bates, Cone
TE - Barnidge, Dray
OH JEEZ... doesn't that strike fear into opposing defensive coordinators!?!? What the he** do we do about this group to make them legit? Here is where I am totally lost...
Any thoughts?
we won't win 4 games based on our schedule for 2015 with these players....you've got to be flippin kidding me...
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Pick up someone like Cecil Shorts and Charles Clay in FA. While using one first round pick on an NT like Shelton or Brown, use the other on a big receiver like Fowler or White. Use the second rounder on an OL that can compete on the right side - the starting 5 are pretty good, but depth is shocking. At QB, fuck knows, but if you have a skill group now looking like:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Shorts, Fowler, Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin
TE - Clay, Barnidge, Dray
Then a solid QB like Hoyer (why the fuck not, the players know and respect him) can give a solid performance. Give time for whoever we decide is the QB of the future - Manziel, Shaw, or someone else - to develop.
Pick up someone like Cecil Shorts and Charles Clay in FA. While using one first round pick on an NT like Shelton or Brown, use the other on a big receiver like Fowler or White. Use the second rounder on an OL that can compete on the right side - the starting 5 are pretty good, but depth is shocking. At QB, fuck knows, but if you have a skill group now looking like:
QB - Manziel, Shaw
RB - Crowell, West, Winston
WR - Shorts, Fowler, Hawkins, Gabriel, Benjamin
TE - Clay, Barnidge, Dray
Then a solid QB like Hoyer (why the fuck not, the players know and respect him) can give a solid performance. Give time for whoever we decide is the QB of the future - Manziel, Shaw, or someone else - to develop.
yeah thats just what we fucking need...another hoyer vs manziel comedy show....hopefully hoyer leaves this piece of shit organization...he deserves much better than this shit....
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Going out on a limb here, but I am honestly more concerned with fixing our Run D than our O.
I just have a feeling that the QB situation will solidify... not solved for all time, but solidified. Once over that hurdle the O-line and WR corps are not major hurdles.
Greater concern for me up the middle of the D.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Going out on a limb here, but I am honestly more concerned with fixing our Run D than our O.
I just have a feeling that the QB situation will solidify... not solved for all time, but solidified. Once over that hurdle the O-line and WR corps are not major hurdles.
Greater concern for me up the middle of the D.
Going out on a limb here, but I am honestly more concerned with fixing our Run D than our O.
Greater concern for me up the middle of the D.
which is the perfect segue into my first "draft shocker" possibility for the draft.....that I will admit to liking, while I think it would freak most of you guys out... A LOT!......hahaha
.But Ive been watching a guy, who I think is top 5 talent.....who is dropping slightly.....and not discussed much....and could, maybe, possibly fall to our pick at 12....so.....here it is.....the Browns are on the clock....and
At #12.....the Browns select.....Landon Collins...Strong Safety........Alabama
And the fans lose their minds.....the city burns....hahaha......
but, knowing his talent and how great safeties can change the face of a team....and knowing Farmer and Pettine... I can see it happening ....and, though not an immediate need, I would take him at 12 in a heartbeat!!!
Ok....Go ahead.....attack.....
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LOL... I took Collins at 19 or so in a First-Pick sim.
No trades were being offered.
I said "Gip got hurt last year and Whitner is no spring chicken... WTF..."
Plus the guy is big enough to work in an LB role in some Ds...
The Sim gave me an A- for my effort.
In First-Pick I've seen more than a few runs where our 2nd #1 pick at 19, and down, lands in a wasteland for need.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
man...people/women/kids.....the sky ain't falling. if mack coulda stayed healthy all year we prob be 2+ wins better in the W-L column and all people could bitch about is new contracts to a TE and a QB.
as people have said west sat cuz he sat the ball on the turf as did crowell. anyone of our RBs could leave and i wouldn't be mad. show me a dude in so. central sligging crack and i'll show you the next HOF RB. the browns need OL help LIKE I"VE BEEN SAYING FOr the last 3 years on the FUCKING right side. i know people likt ot defend schwartz but give it up, the dude is a bum. i don't care about %s and shit, what i see is what i knwo and the right side has been a sieve for yearsnow. then a backup center and the next up-and-comer OT cuz JT ain't getting any younger.
this of course AFTER we draft the best 2 DL 1 and 2.
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With JFF clean and sober, we gonna wreck this league.
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LOL... I took Collins at 19 or so in a First-Pick sim.
No trades were being offered.
I said "Gip got hurt last year and Whitner is no spring chicken... WTF..."
Plus the guy is big enough to work in an LB role in some Ds...
The Sim gave me an A- for my effort.
In First-Pick I've seen more than a few runs where our 2nd #1 pick at 19, and down, lands in a wasteland for need.
LOL... I took Collins at 19 or so in a First-Pick sim.
I said "Gip got hurt last year and Whitner is no spring chicken... WTF..."
Plus the guy is big enough to work in an LB role in some Ds...
The Sim gave me an A- for my effort.
In First-Pick I've seen more than a few runs where our 2nd #1 pick at 19, and down, lands in a wasteland for need.
exactly....while not really advocating this pick, it just struck me as one of the WTF type of picks that Pettine/farmer might just make....assuming the top of the draft goes heavy on DE/DT/OL and light on skill players.....
If that did happen, Id expect them to go WR.....but, expected and actual dont always meet up....
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LOL... I took Collins at 19 or so in a First-Pick sim.
No trades were being offered.
I said "Gip got hurt last year and Whitner is no spring chicken... WTF..."
Plus the guy is big enough to work in an LB role in some Ds...
The Sim gave me an A- for my effort.
In First-Pick I've seen more than a few runs where our 2nd #1 pick at 19, and down, lands in a wasteland for need.
LOL... I took Collins at 19 or so in a First-Pick sim.
No trades were being offered.
I said "Gip got hurt last year and Whitner is no spring chicken... WTF..."
Plus the guy is big enough to work in an LB role in some Ds...
The Sim gave me an A- for my effort.
In First-Pick I've seen more than a few runs where our 2nd #1 pick at 19, and down, lands in a wasteland for need.
So true.But this is where we can get Mingo off the field with B McKinney OR.. get Cam Erving any where on the line at any time or their gone. And if we get Shelton at 12 even better the middle is stuffed.. Higher rated talent tuff to pass for needs?? But Haslem can ask the street man again...
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Unfortunately with the debacle at the quarterback position and lack of any real talent at the skill positions in free agency there isn't much rebuilding that can be done offensively. I think the best bet on that side of the ball is continuing to build a strong and deep offensive line and hope you are able to throw the ball enough to keep defenses from loading up the box.
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man...people/women/kids.....the sky ain't falling. if mack coulda stayed healthy all year we prob be 2+ wins better in the W-L column and all people could bitch about is new contracts to a TE and a QB.
as people have said west sat cuz he sat the ball on the turf as did crowell. anyone of our RBs could leave and i wouldn't be mad. show me a dude in so. central sligging crack and i'll show you the next HOF RB. the browns need OL help LIKE I"VE BEEN SAYING FOr the last 3 years on the FUCKING right side. i know people likt ot defend schwartz but give it up, the dude is a bum. i don't care about %s and shit, what i see is what i knwo and the right side has been a sieve for yearsnow. then a backup center and the next up-and-comer OT cuz JT ain't getting any younger.
this of course AFTER we draft the best 2 DL 1 and 2.
man...people/women/kids.....the sky ain't falling. if mack coulda stayed healthy all year we prob be 2+ wins better in the W-L column and all people could bitch about is new contracts to a TE and a QB.
as people have said west sat cuz he sat the ball on the turf as did crowell. anyone of our RBs could leave and i wouldn't be mad. show me a dude in so. central sligging crack and i'll show you the next HOF RB. the browns need OL help LIKE I"VE BEEN SAYING FOr the last 3 years on the FUCKING right side. i know people likt ot defend schwartz but give it up, the dude is a bum. i don't care about %s and shit, what i see is what i knwo and the right side has been a sieve for yearsnow. then a backup center and the next up-and-comer OT cuz JT ain't getting any younger.
this of course AFTER we draft the best 2 DL 1 and 2.
I think why you see people with little hope for 2015 is a downgrade at QB and the out of conference schedule.
2014 beat Saints (terrible), Titans (horrible), Raiders (maybe worse than the Browns), Bucs (see last comment) & Falcons (horrible year)
2014 lost to Jags (enough said), Texans (non-playoff team) & Panthers (playoff team) and the Jags and Texans throttled us.
5 of the Browns 7 wins came in close games against shit teams.
2015 non-conference schedule Denver, Oakland, Arizona, San Fran, Tennessee, Kansas City, St. Louis, Seattle and the Jets. 6 of those 8 games will be against superior teams and we will need to win at least 5 if we go .500 in the division.
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man...people/women/kids.....the sky ain't falling. if mack coulda stayed healthy all year we prob be 2+ wins better in the W-L column and all people could bitch about is new contracts to a TE and a QB.
as people have said west sat cuz he sat the ball on the turf as did crowell. anyone of our RBs could leave and i wouldn't be mad. show me a dude in so. central sligging crack and i'll show you the next HOF RB. the browns need OL help LIKE I"VE BEEN SAYING FOr the last 3 years on the FUCKING right side. i know people likt ot defend schwartz but give it up, the dude is a bum. i don't care about %s and shit, what i see is what i knwo and the right side has been a sieve for yearsnow. then a backup center and the next up-and-comer OT cuz JT ain't getting any younger.
this of course AFTER we draft the best 2 DL 1 and 2.
I think why you see people with little hope for 2015 is a downgrade at QB and the out of conference schedule.
2014 beat Saints (terrible), Titans (horrible), Raiders (maybe worse than the Browns), Bucs (see last comment) & Falcons (horrible year)
2014 lost to Jags (enough said), Texans (non-playoff team) & Panthers (playoff team) and the Jags and Texans throttled us.
5 of the Browns 7 wins came in close games against shit teams.
2015 non-conference schedule Denver, Oakland, Arizona, San Fran, Tennessee, Kansas City, St. Louis, Seattle and the Jets. 6 of those 8 games will be against superior teams and we will need to win at least 5 if we go .500 in the division.
I think why you see people with little hope for 2015 is a downgrade at QB and the out of conference schedule.
2014 beat Saints (terrible), Titans (horrible), Raiders (maybe worse than the Browns), Bucs (see last comment) & Falcons (horrible year)
2014 lost to Jags (enough said), Texans (non-playoff team) & Panthers (playoff team) and the Jags and Texans throttled us.
5 of the Browns 7 wins came in close games against shit teams.
2015 non-conference schedule Denver, Oakland, Arizona, San Fran, Tennessee, Kansas City, St. Louis, Seattle and the Jets. 6 of those 8 games will be against superior teams and we will need to win at least 5 if we go .500 in the division.
Non-conference schedule doesn't mean sh**. We need to win games within the division...
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1 - Sign Locker, Mallett, or Hoyer with a plan to start them. They compete with Manziel and Shaw. Also, draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th (Grayson, Hundley, Mannion, or Petty) in case none of these guys can stay healthy or develop.
2 - Sign a competent WR like Shorts, T.Smith, or Britt. Draft a WR, really anywhere. I would consider using a 1st rounder on WR, but there are many competent guys throughout the draft. The important things are 1) Bringing somebody in with some height, and 2) Getting a down-field threat...
3 - Get a TE. If we decide not to keep Cameron, we need to make a push at a starting TE like Clay or J.Thomas. I'd like to see us draft a decent TE prospect as well.
4 - We need to get a 6th lineman for depth in case of injury. I'd love to sign Orlando Franklin or Iupati so we could demote Greco or Schwartz to our 6th lineman, BUT I wouldn't make it a priority. Other than those two, there really isn't much FA talent that would be an obvious upgrade, or worth the investment. I think we could use a pick or two on some G/T prospects, but I'd rather we find a deep prospect than use an early pick. We already have 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders and a 3rd rounder on our line so we have already invested heavily on the guys we have, and they were a damn-near elite unit before Mack went down. The key is finding somebody with versatility.
5 - Bring in a veteran RB to work alongside our 3 young horses, and for Pete's sake get a FB on the roster...
4 Draft picks, and 4 Free Agents
Fixed...
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I think why you see people with little hope for 2015 is a downgrade at QB and the out of conference schedule.
2014 beat Saints (terrible), Titans (horrible), Raiders (maybe worse than the Browns), Bucs (see last comment) & Falcons (horrible year)
2014 lost to Jags (enough said), Texans (non-playoff team) & Panthers (playoff team) and the Jags and Texans throttled us.
5 of the Browns 7 wins came in close games against shit teams.
2015 non-conference schedule Denver, Oakland, Arizona, San Fran, Tennessee, Kansas City, St. Louis, Seattle and the Jets. 6 of those 8 games will be against superior teams and we will need to win at least 5 if we go .500 in the division.
Non-conference schedule doesn't mean sh**. We need to win games within the division...
Non-conference schedule doesn't mean sh**. We need to win games within the division...
Unfortunately they do when we have historically been last in the division, although we did finish 3rd in 2010.
Every team in our league has a QB with playoff experience and two have won Super Bowls.
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