Andre Johnson
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The Ravens are as much a "low end" team as the Browns. The Browns have more overall talent than the Ravens.....but, again, just like they have more overall talent than the Steelers, they don't have that top notch QB.
Besides QB, Running back and Receivers also.
Besides QB, Running back and Receivers also.
Well, maybe, probably. It was not the case with receivers until Josh Gordon got suspended.
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The Browns may actually have a more talented overall team than the New England Patriots......except the Pats have Tom Brady.
Not even close, Gip. Do you believe the Pats would have fallen apart if their Center got injured like some here like to believe happened to the Browns? They would have plugged somebody else in and not skipped a beat. You can say it's all Brady, but you'd be wrong (to paraphrase Peter J. Franklin).
Also the Pats have the best HC in the NFL and the Giants have the best Manager in MLB. They get 100% out of 100% of their players 100% of the time.
Organization is HUGE, as well.
I hope Pet can grow into the top-tier coaches in the league over the next few years. I sense, however, acrimony, between him and Farmer. That won't end pretty, IMHO.
Not even close, Gip. Do you believe the Pats would have fallen apart if their Center got injured like some here like to believe happened to the Browns? They would have plugged somebody else in and not skipped a beat. You can say it's all Brady, but you'd be wrong (to paraphrase Peter J. Franklin).
I am not saying it is ALL Tom Brady....90-95%. Like I said, if you went position by position the talent may be very, very close.
Also the Pats have the best HC in the NFL
Do they? I am NOT convinced of that. In all of BBs years as a HC in the NFL he has 2 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons where his full time starting QB was not Tom Brady.
and the Giants have the best Manager in MLB.
Great pitching staffs make any manager look great....but Bochy manages that staff well for sure.
They get 100% out of 100% of their players 100% of the time.
Though I am not convinced that Bruce Bochy is better .than Terry Francona. Both outstanding
Organization is HUGE, as well.
OK, but, sometimes a great pitching staff and a great QB is what makes an organization great.
I hope Pet can grow into the top-tier coaches in the league over the next few years. I sense, however, acrimony, between him and Farmer. That won't end pretty, IMHO.
Winning will resolve all that, no? And I am convinced that winning for this team requires merely a quality QB.
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Not even close, Gip. Do you believe the Pats would have fallen apart if their Center got injured like some here like to believe happened to the Browns? They would have plugged somebody else in and not skipped a beat. You can say it's all Brady, but you'd be wrong (to paraphrase Peter J. Franklin).
I am not saying it is ALL Tom Brady....90-95%. Like I said, if you went position by position the talent may be very, very close.
Also the Pats have the best HC in the NFL
Do they? I am NOT convinced of that. In all of BBs years as a HC in the NFL he has 2 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons where his full time starting QB was not Tom Brady.
and the Giants have the best Manager in MLB.
Great pitching staffs make any manager look great....but Bochy manages that staff well for sure.
They get 100% out of 100% of their players 100% of the time.
Though I am not convinced that Bruce Bochy is better .than Terry Francona. Both outstanding
Organization is HUGE, as well.
OK, but, sometimes a great pitching staff and a great QB is what makes an organization great.
I hope Pet can grow into the top-tier coaches in the league over the next few years. I sense, however, acrimony, between him and Farmer. That won't end pretty, IMHO.
Winning will resolve all that, no? And I am convinced that winning for this team requires merely a quality QB.
Not even close, Gip. Do you believe the Pats would have fallen apart if their Center got injured like some here like to believe happened to the Browns? They would have plugged somebody else in and not skipped a beat. You can say it's all Brady, but you'd be wrong (to paraphrase Peter J. Franklin).
I am not saying it is ALL Tom Brady....90-95%. Like I said, if you went position by position the talent may be very, very close.
Also the Pats have the best HC in the NFL
Do they? I am NOT convinced of that. In all of BBs years as a HC in the NFL he has 2 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons where his full time starting QB was not Tom Brady.
and the Giants have the best Manager in MLB.
Great pitching staffs make any manager look great....but Bochy manages that staff well for sure.
They get 100% out of 100% of their players 100% of the time.
Though I am not convinced that Bruce Bochy is better .than Terry Francona. Both outstanding
Organization is HUGE, as well.
OK, but, sometimes a great pitching staff and a great QB is what makes an organization great.
I hope Pet can grow into the top-tier coaches in the league over the next few years. I sense, however, acrimony, between him and Farmer. That won't end pretty, IMHO.
Winning will resolve all that, no? And I am convinced that winning for this team requires merely a quality QB.
Well, you probably know that I'm a Red Sox fan and like Francona a lot.
Neither he nor Bochy will get their names mentiond in a "Name the best 5 managers in MLB" discussion - at least outside of Cleveland or SF.
BTW, Belichick took over a piss, piss poor team in Cleveland and nearly took them to the playoffs - all the while, the entire organization was crumbling behind him. That experience is why he puts so much emphasis on organization and management stability and, precisely, the reason he chose not to accept the Jets' HC position when his mentor 'anointed' him Head Coach.
If the Browns organization didn't crumble under his tenure, IMHO, he would have gotten the team to the SB. Looking at the numbers, without consideration circumstances, situations, etc. is a dangerous way to evaluate talent.
Look at what Franconia did - for example - before he joined the Sox. Look at Toree with the Mets or in St. Louis. Shitty numbers.
Figures Lie and Liers Figure.
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
Not even close, Gip. Do you believe the Pats would have fallen apart if their Center got injured like some here like to believe happened to the Browns? They would have plugged somebody else in and not skipped a beat. You can say it's all Brady, but you'd be wrong (to paraphrase Peter J. Franklin).
I am not saying it is ALL Tom Brady....90-95%. Like I said, if you went position by position the talent may be very, very close.
Also the Pats have the best HC in the NFL
Do they? I am NOT convinced of that. In all of BBs years as a HC in the NFL he has 2 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons where his full time starting QB was not Tom Brady.
and the Giants have the best Manager in MLB.
Great pitching staffs make any manager look great....but Bochy manages that staff well for sure.
They get 100% out of 100% of their players 100% of the time.
Though I am not convinced that Bruce Bochy is better .than Terry Francona. Both outstanding
Organization is HUGE, as well.
OK, but, sometimes a great pitching staff and a great QB is what makes an organization great.
I hope Pet can grow into the top-tier coaches in the league over the next few years. I sense, however, acrimony, between him and Farmer. That won't end pretty, IMHO.
Winning will resolve all that, no? And I am convinced that winning for this team requires merely a quality QB.
Well, you probably know that I'm a Red Sox fan and like Francona a lot.
Neither he nor Bochy will get their names mentiond in a "Name the best 5 managers in MLB" discussion - at least outside of Cleveland or SF.
BTW, Belichick took over a piss, piss poor team in Cleveland and nearly took them to the playoffs - all the while, the entire organization was crumbling behind him. That experience is why he puts so much emphasis on organization and management stability and, precisely, the reason he chose not to accept the Jets' HC position when his mentor 'anointed' him Head Coach.
If the Browns organization didn't crumble under his tenure, IMHO, he would have gotten the team to the SB. Looking at the numbers, without consideration circumstances, situations, etc. is a dangerous way to evaluate talent.
Look at what Franconia did - for example - before he joined the Sox. Look at Toree with the Mets or in St. Louis. Shitty numbers.
Figures Lie and Liers Figure.
Neither he nor Bochy will get their names mentiond in a "Name the best 5 managers in MLB" discussion - at least outside of Cleveland or SF.
Come on man, I'll give Francona may not be in that talk but Bochy has gotten 3 rings in 5 years with totally different teams. If he's not a top 5 manager in the MLB right now who the hell is above him.
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Neither he nor Bochy will get their names mentiond in a "Name the best 5 managers in MLB" discussion - at least outside of Cleveland or SF.
Come on man, I'll give Francona may not be in that talk but Bochy has gotten 3 rings in 5 years with totally different teams. If he's not a top 5 manager in the MLB right now who the hell is above him.
Come on man, I'll give Francona may not be in that talk but Bochy has gotten 3 rings in 5 years with totally different teams. If he's not a top 5 manager in the MLB right now who the hell is above him.
I am saying their names WILL NOT come up, even though THEY SHOULD COME UP.
I misspoke if I came across as they should not be in the conversation. They are below the radar for most people. Not jazzy people or jazzy Managers. Just Managers who have won a total of 5 WS in 15 years.
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Not even close, Gip. Do you believe the Pats would have fallen apart if their Center got injured like some here like to believe happened to the Browns? They would have plugged somebody else in and not skipped a beat. You can say it's all Brady, but you'd be wrong (to paraphrase Peter J. Franklin).
I am not saying it is ALL Tom Brady....90-95%. Like I said, if you went position by position the talent may be very, very close.
Also the Pats have the best HC in the NFL
Do they? I am NOT convinced of that. In all of BBs years as a HC in the NFL he has 2 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons where his full time starting QB was not Tom Brady.
and the Giants have the best Manager in MLB.
Great pitching staffs make any manager look great....but Bochy manages that staff well for sure.
They get 100% out of 100% of their players 100% of the time.
Though I am not convinced that Bruce Bochy is better .than Terry Francona. Both outstanding
Organization is HUGE, as well.
OK, but, sometimes a great pitching staff and a great QB is what makes an organization great.
I hope Pet can grow into the top-tier coaches in the league over the next few years. I sense, however, acrimony, between him and Farmer. That won't end pretty, IMHO.
Winning will resolve all that, no? And I am convinced that winning for this team requires merely a quality QB.
Well, you probably know that I'm a Red Sox fan and like Francona a lot.
Neither he nor Bochy will get their names mentiond in a "Name the best 5 managers in MLB" discussion - at least outside of Cleveland or SF.
BTW, Belichick took over a piss, piss poor team in Cleveland and nearly took them to the playoffs - all the while, the entire organization was crumbling behind him. That experience is why he puts so much emphasis on organization and management stability and, precisely, the reason he chose not to accept the Jets' HC position when his mentor 'anointed' him Head Coach.
If the Browns organization didn't crumble under his tenure, IMHO, he would have gotten the team to the SB. Looking at the numbers, without consideration circumstances, situations, etc. is a dangerous way to evaluate talent.
Look at what Franconia did - for example - before he joined the Sox. Look at Toree with the Mets or in St. Louis. Shitty numbers.
Figures Lie and Liers Figure.
Well, you probably know that I'm a Red Sox fan and like Francona a lot.
Neither he nor Bochy will get their names mentiond in a "Name the best 5 managers in MLB" discussion - at least outside of Cleveland or SF.
I would disagree with that. I would think they would both rank very high on the best managers list by anyone doing the ranking....if they didn't then the person/persons doing the ranking are dumbasses.
BTW, Belichick took over a piss, piss poor team in Cleveland and nearly took them to the playoffs
Not in his first year...by no means. It took him 4 years to make the playoffs.
- all the while, the entire organization was crumbling behind him. That experience is why he puts so much emphasis on organization and management stability and, precisely, the reason he chose not to accept the Jets' HC position when his mentor 'anointed' him Head Coach.
If the Browns organization didn't crumble under his tenure, IMHO, he would have gotten the team to the SB. Looking at the numbers, without consideration circumstances, situations, etc. is a dangerous way to evaluate talent.
Well, I don't know if the organization crumbled. Modell wanted more money. That was the root of any crumbling.
Look at what Franconia did - for example - before he joined the Sox. Look at Toree with the Mets or in St. Louis. Shitty numbers.
Neither had the talent in those places to go far. That is what I say about BB.....he has perhaps the best QB in history having played for him. Fine that he recognized that talent......but without TB...he has been less than mediorce.
Figures Lie and Liers Figure.
And Bill Parcells said "you are what your record says you are"......and sans Brady, BBs record is below .500.
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Well, you probably know that I'm a Red Sox fan and like Francona a lot.
Neither he nor Bochy will get their names mentiond in a "Name the best 5 managers in MLB" discussion - at least outside of Cleveland or SF.
I would disagree with that. I would think they would both rank very high on the best managers list by anyone doing the ranking....if they didn't then the person/persons doing the ranking are dumbasses.
BTW, Belichick took over a piss, piss poor team in Cleveland and nearly took them to the playoffs
Not in his first year...by no means. It took him 4 years to make the playoffs.
- all the while, the entire organization was crumbling behind him. That experience is why he puts so much emphasis on organization and management stability and, precisely, the reason he chose not to accept the Jets' HC position when his mentor 'anointed' him Head Coach.
If the Browns organization didn't crumble under his tenure, IMHO, he would have gotten the team to the SB. Looking at the numbers, without consideration circumstances, situations, etc. is a dangerous way to evaluate talent.
Well, I don't know if the organization crumbled. Modell wanted more money. That was the root of any crumbling.
Look at what Franconia did - for example - before he joined the Sox. Look at Toree with the Mets or in St. Louis. Shitty numbers.
Neither had the talent in those places to go far. That is what I say about BB.....he has perhaps the best QB in history having played for him. Fine that he recognized that talent......but without TB...he has been less than mediorce.
Figures Lie and Liers Figure.
And Bill Parcells said "you are what your record says you are"......and sans Brady, BBs record is below .500.
I would disagree with that. I would think they would both rank very high on the best managers list by anyone doing the ranking....if they didn't then the person/persons doing the ranking are dumbasses.
I am talking about a conversation in a barroom, Gip, for Chrissakes. Joe the Plumber. You know, a stupid, crude Republican.
PS Get over your hatred of BB for cutting Kosar and, just maybe, you will see the light of day.
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I would disagree with that. I would think they would both rank very high on the best managers list by anyone doing the ranking....if they didn't then the person/persons doing the ranking are dumbasses.
I am talking about a conversation in a barroom, Gip, for Chrissakes. Joe the Plumber. You know, a stupid, crude Republican.
PS Get over your hatred of BB for cutting Kosar and, just maybe, you will see the light of day.
I am talking about a conversation in a barroom, Gip, for Chrissakes. Joe the Plumber. You know, a stupid, crude Republican.
PS Get over your hatred of BB for cutting Kosar and, just maybe, you will see the light of day.
Well, I don't know what party a person in a barroom may be, but if they think that Bochy and Francona are not good managers then they are either a Republican or Democratic dumbass.
As for Belichick....I am sorry that facts get in the way of your delusion. But it is a FACT that without Brady at QB BB has a losing record as a head coach. He has been lucky and blessed to have had one of the greatest QBs of all time play for him. Now, maybe he would have had some way for his teams to be competitive, but what kind of record do you think he would have had with the QBs the Browns have been "blessed" with the last 15 years?
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Texans have released him....
That means Hoyer will be throwing 6 feet behind another WR
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I am talking about a conversation in a barroom, Gip, for Chrissakes. Joe the Plumber. You know, a stupid, crude Republican.
PS Get over your hatred of BB for cutting Kosar and, just maybe, you will see the light of day.
Well, I don't know what party a person in a barroom may be, but if they think that Bochy and Francona are not good managers then they are either a Republican or Democratic dumbass.
As for Belichick....I am sorry that facts get in the way of your delusion. But it is a FACT that without Brady at QB BB has a losing record as a head coach. He has been lucky and blessed to have had one of the greatest QBs of all time play for him. Now, maybe he would have had some way for his teams to be competitive, but what kind of record do you think he would have had with the QBs the Browns have been "blessed" with the last 15 years?
Well, I don't know what party a person in a barroom may be, but if they think that Bochy and Francona are not good managers then they are either a Republican or Democratic dumbass.
As for Belichick....I am sorry that facts get in the way of your delusion. But it is a FACT that without Brady at QB BB has a losing record as a head coach. He has been lucky and blessed to have had one of the greatest QBs of all time play for him. Now, maybe he would have had some way for his teams to be competitive, but what kind of record do you think he would have had with the QBs the Browns have been "blessed" with the last 15 years?
BBBBBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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