Pass rusher at #12
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There was more to the trade back intrigue than wanting it to be Plan A. In a place where we've gagged on a choice like Craig Powell, there's nothing wrong with our war room maintaining composure with a proactive plan in lieu of reliving another episode of knee jerk - achey breaky.
If a lot of front office faves are off the board by #12 - there's 2 choices: 1) Invent some that don't exist at that value; or 2) add picks by trading back a little further into round 1 where there's multiple choice of faves matching need with BPA. You're right about the 10 picks so why get desperate at #12 if Mr Magic ain't there?
I agree with you about the trade up. Haven't seen it help us yet. This dates all the way back to the epic blunder of handing the Miami Dolphins HOF WR Paul Warfield so we could move up to draft Mike Phipps at #3 overall. How do you keep defenses from loading the box to stop Csonka, Kiick and Morris? You put Paul Warfield on the perimeter to leave all of their opponents in pick your poison mode. That trade helped make one team perfect and it wasn't us. We also traded up for Kellen Winslow while our hated rivals in Pittsburgh celebrated staying put later in the round for a franchise QB that's led them to 3 Superbowls. If we had the RIGHT front office, we trade back a few spots, add picks and BEAT Pittsburgh to a franchise QB rather than getting desperate for 1 player that could still get injured enough to miss 2 of his first 3 NFL seasons. And then there was trading up 1 spot for Trent Richardson. There's other examples too - just take your pick....
If we put a lie detector on history, a team that frequently massacres the first round while experiencing extensive injury volumes - should prefer trading back to trading up. I've certainly been wrong before though...
Really enjoy your insights as most on this site, that makes it the best anywhere. Just feel no need to reach up or down on our first 4-5 picks will get us talent. Falling back for a few picks, log the names that come off the board and watch them. From your post you see it also. Thanks for sharing my pain. We shall see..
Really enjoy your insights as most on this site, that makes it the best anywhere. Just feel no need to reach up or down on our first 4-5 picks will get us talent. Falling back for a few picks, log the names that come off the board and watch them. From your post you see it also. Thanks for sharing my pain. We shall see..
Thanks Gumby! We've definitely shared the same walk.
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that was the Tony Grossi mock draft, Danny Shelton at 12 and Bud Dupre at 19.
I'd be happy with that bedrock for a top 5 defense.
WSS
Switch out Dupree with Orchard and id love me some Grossi mock drafts.
Switch out Dupree with Orchard and id love me some Grossi mock drafts.
Orchard has some numbers that pop off the chart like 18 sacks in 2014 so I'm stunned to see 0 tackles for a loss in the same season. There's also 0 passes defensed and 0 INTs. My guess is he takes advantage of a lot of X-stunts designed to keep him blocker free. My worry is he gets tossed like a salad when the run comes directly at him and what kind of first step instinct he'll offer our pass defense in coverage.
There's a lot of excitement diluted by a lot of concern here.
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Switch out Dupree with Orchard and id love me some Grossi mock drafts.
Orchard has some numbers that pop off the chart like 18 sacks in 2014 so I'm stunned to see 0 tackles for a loss in the same season. There's also 0 passes defensed and 0 INTs. My guess is he takes advantage of a lot of X-stunts designed to keep him blocker free. My worry is he gets tossed like a salad when the run comes directly at him and what kind of first step instinct he'll offer our pass defense in coverage.
There's a lot of excitement diluted by a lot of concern here.
Orchard has some numbers that pop off the chart like 18 sacks in 2014 so I'm stunned to see 0 tackles for a loss in the same season.
I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
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Pretty simple stuff in my opinion:
1. Develop a vision for what you want your team to be. Check - Pettine wants a killer D first before going for the O.
2. Have a "meeting of the minds" to share that vision and to get everyone focused on ensuring that vision comes into being. Check - that's what the retreat was supposed to accomplish.
3. Focus on fulfilling that vision from FA thru the draft- looks to me like they have a real plan
4. Do NOT let the glitz of a glamor "masterstroke" deter you from staying within that plan. You know, like going after someone that seemed a "reach" but somehow has fallen from grace from the teams above you.
So will the Browns draft like the new Browns or draft like the old Browns? That is the question!
Still hoping to see one more 3-down OLB in my lifetime...
4. Do NOT let the glitz of a glamor "masterstroke" deter you from staying within that plan. You know, like going after someone that seemed a "reach" but somehow has fallen from grace from the teams above you.
If they have not thought through the possibilities of players falling towards them, then they have not planned. I'm betting that they have.
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Orchard has some numbers that pop off the chart like 18 sacks in 2014 so I'm stunned to see 0 tackles for a loss in the same season.
I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
I could never tell if he was "weak" against the run because of his assignments or playing strength and speed.
The senior bowl showed he has all the ability to be a solid run defender. Also, if we take Gregory should he fall I will toss a chair through a window.
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Orchard has some numbers that pop off the chart like 18 sacks in 2014 so I'm stunned to see 0 tackles for a loss in the same season.
I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
yeah but we dont need another mingo. We already have a strict will olb'er. We need a guy thats between mingo and kruger.I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
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I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
I could never tell if he was "weak" against the run because of his assignments or playing strength and speed.
The senior bowl showed he has all the ability to be a solid run defender. Also, if we take Gregory should he fall I will toss a chair through a window.
I could never tell if he was "weak" against the run because of his assignments or playing strength and speed.
The senior bowl showed he has all the ability to be a solid run defender. Also, if we take Gregory should he fall I will toss a chair through a window.
Yeah...I guess I should have said his strength is as a pass rusher, as opposed to saying he was weak against the run/////....cause there really isnt any film I can find that shows he's NOT good against the run......
and, Im with you on Gregory..... Gordon has washed away my willingness to take a chance on known stoners....
Dont want him at 12......and IF he's there at 19, then(before WE pick him) Id ask why 18 other teams had the discipline to pass
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Orchard has some numbers that pop off the chart like 18 sacks in 2014 so I'm stunned to see 0 tackles for a loss in the same season.
I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
Thanks Mud! I thought it was pretty bizarre that somebody with that many sacks in 2014 (as well as 8.5 TFL in 2012 and again in 2013) had 0 TFL last year. 18 sacks and 21 TFL are impressive.
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I agree with much of what you said....except the part about him having no tackles for losses.....he had 21, which is a lot .....for anybody...
Though, he is weak against the run...yes....but I think the Browns would be looking at him as more of a pass rush specialist
Thanks Mud! I thought it was pretty bizarre that somebody with that many sacks in 2014 (as well as 8.5 TFL in 2012 and again in 2013) had 0 TFL last year. 18 sacks and 21 TFL are impressive.
Thanks Mud! I thought it was pretty bizarre that somebody with that many sacks in 2014 (as well as 8.5 TFL in 2012 and again in 2013) had 0 TFL last year. 18 sacks and 21 TFL are impressive.
no sweat...a lot of the sites have fairly incomplete stats on these guys....
Looked at Orchard more closely this week and he looks pretty good.....but I love D, so really want all these guys...
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Still hoping to see one more 3-down OLB in my lifetime...
4. Do NOT let the glitz of a glamor "masterstroke" deter you from staying within that plan. You know, like going after someone that seemed a "reach" but somehow has fallen from grace from the teams above you.
If they have not thought through the possibilities of players falling towards them, then they have not planned. I'm betting that they have.
If they have not thought through the possibilities of players falling towards them, then they have not planned. I'm betting that they have.
Just do not want a repeat of the JM thing believe it or not. We "reached" when he fell our way only to find out this year that there was a reason that most of us, including the Browns FO, had little foreknowledge.
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I like Dupree much more than Orchard. If the Browns nabbed Dupree
and Brown with their first two picks, I'd love that.
Then OL in the second round, and some "under the radar" wr in the third.
Closer and closer to the draft.
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I like Dupree much more than Orchard. If the Browns nabbed Dupree
and Brown with their first two picks, I'd love that.
Then OL in the second round, and some "under the radar" wr in the third.
Closer and closer to the draft.
I like Dupree much more than Orchard. If the Browns nabbed Dupree
and Brown with their first two picks, I'd love that.
Closer and closer to the draft.
I think it could be Dupree 'or" Shelton at #12.......but he's not gonna make it to 19....
Orchard is in my grouping for our second round pick, if we dont tap a OLB in the first......
Im like you.....tick tick tick
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Can't wait either. Me and a few mates get together for the first round that night (late here) take the next day off work and play some golf or snooker. Then back at a friends house for rounds 2-3.
Last year I should have been very excited but I never wanted JM, was praying we were taking Teddy with that pick.
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Can't wait either. Me and a few mates get together for the first round that night (late here) take the next day off work and play some golf or snooker. Then back at a friends house for rounds 2-3.
Last year I should have been very excited but I never wanted JM, was praying we were taking Teddy with that pick.
was praying we were taking Teddy with that pick.
in hindsight thought, without all kind of man-love involved, wouldn't the wise choice have been derek carr?
everyone here hypes bridgewater and watkins like they were some saviors. meanwhile carr and evans were the most solid at their positions coming in as rookies.
i don't get the gay love.
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was praying we were taking Teddy with that pick.
in hindsight thought, without all kind of man-love involved, wouldn't the wise choice have been derek carr?
everyone here hypes bridgewater and watkins like they were some saviors. meanwhile carr and evans were the most solid at their positions coming in as rookies.
i don't get the gay love.
Most solid at their positions? I'd take TB over DC at their position any day. Luck of the draw... Ya, probablyin hindsight thought, without all kind of man-love involved, wouldn't the wise choice have been derek carr?
everyone here hypes bridgewater and watkins like they were some saviors. meanwhile carr and evans were the most solid at their positions coming in as rookies.
i don't get the gay love.
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Most solid at their positions? I'd take TB over DC at their position any day. Luck of the draw... Ya, probablyin hindsight thought, without all kind of man-love involved, wouldn't the wise choice have been derek carr?
everyone here hypes bridgewater and watkins like they were some saviors. meanwhile carr and evans were the most solid at their positions coming in as rookies.
i don't get the gay love.
Most solid at their positions? I'd take TB over DC at their position any day. Luck of the draw... Ya, probably
ok, one set records for rookie passing for his team and one likes to dress like a woman.
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I'd take a guy who crossdressed for a class over a guy who talks about Jesus all the time.
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