Would you trade our two first round picks for Philip Rivers?

wargograw

Columbus, when can we see that for this year? That's crazy that they predicted the Cowboys success off of an 8-8 year.

ColumbusKing

@wargograw said:
Columbus, when can we see that for this year? That's crazy that they predicted the Cowboys success off of an 8-8 year.

Well I believe that is for teams on the upcoming year, notice how they left out Seattle and New England, the super bowl teams? Maybe they just didn't have time to analyze the 2014 teams.

Vagitron

@columbusking said:

I don't want to do the trade but from the looks of ESPN the Browns are closer to building a contender then the Stoolers. http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12179331/how-many-players-away-super-bowl-was-team

So try and know more about the rival team if you are gonna come on their forum...

Also Fuck the Steelers

Any self respecting football fan can see right through this article that was written and posted smack in the middle of the offseason. It puts zero consideration in the pedigree and potential of players. If I rmemeber correctly it puts almost zero stock in guys like tuitt, Shazier and Jarvis Jones for example for the steelers. It was a shit article then and its a shit article now. If they put the steelers at the top I'd still be saying its a shit article. ESPN is also garbage. Edit: and I'm the king of Columbus.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Any self respecting football fan can see right through this article that was written and posted smack in the middle of the offseason. It puts zero consideration in the pedigree and potential of players. If I rmemeber correctly it puts almost zero stock in guys like tuitt, Shazier and Jarvis Jones for example for the steelers. It was a shit article then and its a shit article now. If they put the steelers at the top I'd still be saying its a shit article. ESPN is also garbage. Edit: and I'm the king of Columbus.

Does it put zero stock in them....or does it say that they are unproven...which is really what they are.

Shazier and Jones in particular are as equally unproven as Barkevious Mingo and Christian Kirksey. (You wouldn't disagree with the assessment that Mingo and Kirksey are unproven would you?)

Like I said, you have a tantrum if anyone doesn't think some Steeler player isn't Hall of Fame talent.

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:

Does it put zero stock in them....or does it say that they are unproven...which is really what they are.

Shazier and Jones in particular are as equally unproven as Barkevious Mingo and Christian Kirksey. (You wouldn't disagree with the assessment that Mingo and Kirksey are unproven would you?)

Like I said, you have a tantrum if anyone doesn't think some Steeler player isn't Hall of Fame talent.

I said its a bad article and it is because it puts no stock in draft picks. Yes they are unproven, but those players were drafted in the first or second round to fill voids that they want to criticize in the article and this goes for all teams. It was a fluff piece designed to create a stir and get hits on their website. ESPN for the most part is garbage.

The Gipper

@vagitron said:
Any self respecting football fan can see right through this article that was written and posted smack in the middle of the offseason. It puts zero consideration in the pedigree and potential of players. If I rmemeber correctly it puts almost zero stock in guys like tuitt, Shazier and Jarvis Jones for example for the steelers. It was a shit article then and its a shit article now. If they put the steelers at the top I'd still be saying its a shit article. ESPN is also garbage. Edit: and I'm the king of Columbus.

Well, it says that the Browns were 7 players away from serious contention....and that the Steelers were 11 players away.

Again, I believe that they may have done the same roster analysis I did....and I think they were probably accurate.

They are giving "average grades" to those unproven players we discussed. The one gripe you have would be re DeCastro, who should probably be upgraded to the "Good" category.

But, if you have gripes....the Browns have more gripes. This put Joe Haden in the average category. He is certainly the best DB in the AFCN. And I can only assume Alex Mack is listed as average because he was hurt.

ColumbusKing

@vagitron said:
It puts zero consideration in the pedigree and potential of players. If I rmemeber correctly it puts almost zero stock in guys like tuitt, Shazier and Jarvis Jones for example for the steelers. Edit: and I'm the king of Columbus.

Yeah it doesn't consider how good Shazier MIGHT be it considers how good players are.... And PFF knows more then both of us, and I don't think it is an accident that the Browns are closer then the Stoolers. Also you are "The Vag of Columbus"

King is a term reserved for me

Vagitron

@columbusking said:

Yeah it doesn't consider how good Shazier MIGHT be it considers how good players are.... And PFF knows more then both of us, and I don't think it is an accident that the Browns are closer then the Stoolers. Also you are "The Vag of Columbus"

King is a term reserved for me

PFF is fine but their algorithm isn't perfect. I'm definitely the king of columbus. I have a squire position open if you are interested.

ColumbusKing

You are the Vag I am the King that is just how things work around here, sorry

Vagitron

@columbusking said:
You are the Vag I am the King that is just how things work around here, sorry

Nope.

wargograw

You can be the fag of Columbus.

Mudfly

@vagitron said:
Any self respecting football fan can see right through this article that was written and posted smack in the middle of the offseason. It puts zero consideration in the pedigree and potential of players.

Its based upon PFF ratings....plain and simple......20+ = elite.......9+ = good.....etc etc.....

Bottom line, more Browns players scored better overall than the Steelers.......

We all know YOU wont agree....but the most objective and thorough rating system out there says we have better players.....period.....

And you really cant present an arguement other than "I disagree"......

@the-gipper said:

. This put Joe Haden in the average category. He is certainly the best DB in the AFCN. And I can only assume Alex Mack is listed as average because he was hurt.

Correct....we can make the same arguments that Vag makes.....Mack missed 11 games and still rated amongst the best.....since you get a separate score each game, it's often easy to project how a player might grade out....for example: Mack scored high grades every game and his score of +7 for 5 games projects to +23 for 16 games and would make him the #1 center and earn him major elite status.....

Conversely, Shazier played 9 games and had a negative score...so his projection for 16 would be downward.....

PFF only rates performance....there is no "speculation" or credit for potential(hope?) there...it's just facts and reality.....

@columbusking said:
PFF knows more then both of us, and I don't think it is an accident that the Browns are closer then the Stoolers

Agree....PFF aint perfect, but it's a hell o lot better than... "cause I said so"....

@vagitron said:
PFF is fine but their algorithm isn't perfect.

Nothing is perfect....but it's far and away the best(and fairest) rating system available......

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

Its based upon PFF ratings....plain and simple......20+ = elite.......9+ = good.....etc etc.....

Bottom line, more Browns players scored better overall than the Steelers.......

We all know YOU wont agree....but the most objective and thorough rating system out there says we have better players.....period.....

And you really cant present an arguement other than "I disagree"......

Correct....we can make the same arguments that Vag makes.....Mack missed 11 games and still rated amongst the best.....since you get a separate score each game, it's often easy to project how a player might grade out....for example: Mack scored high grades every game and his score of +7 for 5 games projects to +23 for 16 games and would make him the #1 center and earn him major elite status.....

Conversely, Shazier played 9 games and had a negative score...so his projection for 16 would be downward.....

PFF only rates performance....there is no "speculation" or credit for potential(hope?) there...it's just facts and reality.....

Agree....PFF aint perfect, but it's a hell o lot better than... "cause I said so"....

Nothing is perfect....but it's far and away the best(and fairest) rating system available......

Its one of the only rating systems available. I prefer numberfire personally.

Tour2ma

And numberfire says???

Vagitron

@tour2ma said:
And numberfire says???

Oh I haven't checked. I just like their site more. Its also great for fantasy football

The Gipper

Do those PFF numbers for the entire roster...at least starters, and compare.

Mudfly

@tour2ma said:
And numberfire says???

number fire is nothing like PFF......it's a Gambling & Fantasy site that bases it's entire rating system on "predicting" future performance.....not on grading past performance...

and it covers all sports(jack of all / master of none)....

so, if you want real football grades and insight to how players performed game to game, Numberfire aint the place to get em....

andeftw

If Whisenhunt wants Rivers, he's going to be a Titan. With a Rivers trade the Chargers would have nothing at QB, so they'd need the ammunition to move up to #2 and select Mariota.

I don't see the Chargers trading Rivers to another team unless they already have a deal in place with the Titans for the #2 pick involving only draft picks.

Vagitron

@mudfly said:

number fire is nothing like PFF......it's a Gambling & Fantasy site that bases it's entire rating system on "predicting" future performance.....not on grading past performance...

and it covers all sports(jack of all / master of none)....

so, if you want real football grades and insight to how players performed game to game, Numberfire aint the place to get em....

They do normal analysis but yes its mostly a fantasy predictor. As far as PFF is concerned it need to be taken with a grain of salt, sometimes they are on point and other times they are out in left field.

Edit: here is a polamalu example of what I'm talking about..https://m.numberfire.com/nfl/news/4936/how-good-was-troy-polamalu-s-career?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=dlvr.it_nF

Zombo

I would trade our two first round picks this year and our first next year if he would sign a contract extension ... what's wrong with you people?

Zombo