laurinaitis coming in

DTBH

oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken

SEC 20

Big Ten 18

Corners taken

SEC 17

Big Ten 15

Again, genious, speed isn't the only thing skill players are drafted for.

The point is, which conference has better team speed. Linebackers, lineman, skill positions, all of the above. Not which players get drafted. Speed isn't the only thing that matters, and that's why despite lack of speed players will still be drafted.

Think about that for a couple of days before you respond with another "look, these players got drafted!" post.

As a side note: Your numbers prove me right, technically.

Oldcrow1945

@dtbh said:
Again, genious, speed isn't the only thing skill players are drafted for.
The point is, which conference has better team speed. Linebackers, lineman, skill positions, all of the above. Not which players get drafted. Speed isn't the only thing that matters, and that's why despite lack of speed players will still be drafted.

Think about that for a couple of days before you respond with another "look, these players got drafted!" post.

As a side note: Your numbers prove me right, technically.

I love it....you spelled 'genius' incorrectly.

I'm just responding to your point. You said the SEC is known for speed and the Big Ten is known for size and strength. Yet now you say Speed isn't everything.

Oldcrow1945

@dtbh said:
Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....
Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.

Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?

You are right when you say speed isn't everything. It isn't. Being a football players is what counts. The NFL has chosen almost as many Big Ten players so how can you say the conference in inferior?

Which is it? Combine speed or Game speed?

? Aloysius

oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken

SEC 20

Big Ten 18

I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:

Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474

I doubt it's statistically significant, but it may lend some credence to the claim that SEC players are faster. At the very least, it negates your point about the numbers of receivers taken from each conference being similar.

DTBH

oldcow1945 said:
Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?

I did not mean the conference was inferior. I simply meant the conference was not as fast overall as, say, the SEC. That doesn't mean they're inferior.

When I said subpar competition, I meant games against YSU, Akron, and such.

You still don't get it. I'm not saying speed is everything, and I'm not saying the Big Ten is weak. I'm saying the Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences. That's it. Take it for what it is.

NewEraDawg

I would rather have big , moderately fast players than smaller speedster types that cant do all jobs expected .

YtownBrownsBacker

Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
Average time:
SEC: 4.425

Big Ten: 4.474

I doubt it's statistically significant, but it may lend some credence to the claim that SEC players are faster. At the very least, it negates your point about the numbers of receivers taken from each conference being similar.

But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.

Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.

? Aloysius

oldcow1945 said:
Corners taken
SEC 17

Big Ten 15

I counted 18 apiece, with 14 SEC guys and 12 Big Ten guys running at the Combine.

Average times:
- SEC: 4.4078
- Ten: 4.4442

DTBH

@ytownbrownsbacker said:
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.

Speed wise, he does. As Aloysius is currently in the process of proving.

But I know that doesn't matter. Even though all I've said is "The Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences," you'll keep twisting it as much as you have to because you can't admit that it is, despite the proof.

OSU fag.

Oldcrow1945

@dtbh said:
OSU fag.

This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.

Oldcrow1945

Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
Average time:
SEC: 4.425

Ten: 4.474

I doubt it's statistically significant, but it may lend some credence to the claim that SEC players are faster. At the very least, it negates your point about the numbers of receivers taken from each conference being similar.

That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.

I'm ROTFL here!

YtownBrownsBacker

oldcow1945 said:
This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.

Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.

Oldcrow1945

@ytownbrownsbacker said:
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.

Now he says he meant that only the non conference games were inferior. Not the games in the Big Ten.

Even though he said JL played "a lot games against inferior competition" and "In a notoriously slow conference"

I guess "A lot" means 3 of their 12 games. And five one hundreds of a second is "notoriously slow"

Alendor

this isn't dungeons and dragons, big ten and sec both recruit from all around the country. they don't magically get a speed boost from being in the SEC. the speed issue is pretty much mostly BS made up by the media

Riffer X

@ytownbrownsbacker said:
Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.

Name callers always show their true colors. They're generally the most bitter posters, and rarely do they have anything good to say about anything.

Overall unhappy people who can't coexist on a message board. Normal people don't call people names to their face very often over a football discussion.

ballpeen

Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.

Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.

It's more likely a kid from Ohio or Minnesota is going to head to Florida or South Carolina v. the other kids heading up north.

That is why when you compare the conferences, you really need to look at the bottom tier schools in each...and that is where the big difference occurs, and what in the end most of the time makes the top teams slightly better...they play better, deeper teams week after week.

Oldcrow1945

@ballpeen said:
Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.

I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.

One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)

The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.

Florida

Texas

California

Georgia

Ohio

Riffer X

oldcow1945 said:
I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.
One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)

The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.

Florida

Texas

California

Georgia

Ohio

I think the SEC swing has went the way it has simply because we are losing population up north. Pluto keeps harping on this and I can't disagree with him. More and more people are leaving the midwest, so not only are they leaving here they are moving to the south and giving them more of an influx of talent.

I still say it's cyclical and there is no doubt that the Big Ten is down right now, but they still can put out as good a players as anybody else, that will never be in question.

The scheduling thing is a joke. SEC teams play totally weak teams non conference. OSU is keeping lots of games in state to help fellow state schools.

I also believe the Big 12 has benefited from population movement.

? Aloysius

@ytownbrownsbacker said:
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC.

Ask, and you shall receive:

Average 40 times:
- SEC: 4.68
- Ten: 4.71

Note: I included all LB's who were drafted, not just ones picked in the top four rounds.

? Aloysius

oldcow1945 said:
That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.
I'm ROTFL here!

Yeah, it's truly hilarious

Not sure that a .05 second difference is completely insignificant, but I'll put that aside for now. What you didn't see from looking at those numbers is that there were a lot more 4.3 guys among the SEC crew. While only 33% of the Big Ten guys registered times below 4.4, a full 50% of the SEC guys timed in the 4.3's. Because of the ridiculously small sample size, it's hard to tell whether that's indicative of anything, but it at least suggests that elite speed is more common in the SEC.