laurinaitis coming in
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Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....
Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.
Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....
Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.
Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?
You are right when you say speed isn't everything. It isn't. Being a football players is what counts. The NFL has chosen almost as many Big Ten players so how can you say the conference in inferior?
Which is it? Combine speed or Game speed?
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin" -
A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.
They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.
It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.
oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
- Average time:
-
Yeah, I'm betting Tennessee is saying the combine is overrated after Chris Johnson exposed his blazing speed, propelling them to waste a draft pick on him.....
Game speed is great, but it's not so easy to judge how fast a guy is on college film and translate to the pros. Forty times help with that. All the scouting techniques work. Interviews, 40 times, combine drills, watching film...they all have to be combined. A guy like Laurenitis may look blazing fast for an ILB, but he plays in a notoriously slow conference and a lot of games against subpar competition. So that + the forty time will tell an aggregate truth.
Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?
You are right when you say speed isn't everything. It isn't. Being a football players is what counts. The NFL has chosen almost as many Big Ten players so how can you say the conference in inferior?
Which is it? Combine speed or Game speed?
oldcow1945 said:
Here is your post that started this debate. You inferred that the the Big Ten is weak and that JL plays in an inferior conference. Yet this conference is producing as many NFL players as the SEC. How can that be? I think the NFL draft is the ultimate way to judge what kind of talent is coming out of college. It is the job of the NFL organizations to find college football's best talent and they do a pretty good job of it....So I ask again, that being the case, why isn't the SEC producing a lot more NFL players?I did not mean the conference was inferior. I simply meant the conference was not as fast overall as, say, the SEC. That doesn't mean they're inferior.
When I said subpar competition, I meant games against YSU, Akron, and such.
You still don't get it. I'm not saying speed is everything, and I'm not saying the Big Ten is weak. I'm saying the Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences. That's it. Take it for what it is.
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I would rather have big , moderately fast players than smaller speedster types that cant do all jobs expected .
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oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Big Ten: 4.474
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
- Average time:
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A team like Florida can have decidedly better overall team speed, but can lose a game against OSU because of other qualities. Big Ten produces size and strength, other conferences like the SEC produce speed.
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4
Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
Corners taken
SEC 17
Big Ten 15
Wouldn't you think you'd see a bigger difference in these numbers if there was a real speed difference in the conferences?
As I said before, it can be shown another way. Go to Scout. com and look at the recruiting classes from the last few years.
They list height, weight and 40 times. You will find that the SEC is not recruiting players any faster than the Big Ten.
It's a myth that you came up with from a narrow view of watching various games and from listening to ESPN.
oldcow1945 said:
Corners takenSEC 17
Big Ten 15
I counted 18 apiece, with 14 SEC guys and 12 Big Ten guys running at the Combine.
- Average times:
- SEC: 4.4078
- Ten: 4.4442
- Average times:
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Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Big Ten: 4.474
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Speed wise, he does. As Aloysius is currently in the process of proving.
But I know that doesn't matter. Even though all I've said is "The Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences," you'll keep twisting it as much as you have to because you can't admit that it is, despite the proof.
OSU fag.
- Average time:
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Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Speed wise, he does. As Aloysius is currently in the process of proving.
But I know that doesn't matter. Even though all I've said is "The Big Ten isn't as fast as some other conferences," you'll keep twisting it as much as you have to because you can't admit that it is, despite the proof.
OSU fag.
OSU fag.
This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin" -
oldcow1945 said:
Ok....Let's take a look at the speed positions when it comes to the conferences and NFL talent. I went back further. I took the last 7 drafts. Rounds 1 thru 4Wide receivers taken
SEC 20
Big Ten 18
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:
- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.
I'm ROTFL here!
- Average time:
-
oldcow1945 said:
This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.
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Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Big Ten: 4.474
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
Now he says he meant that only the non conference games were inferior. Not the games in the Big Ten.
Even though he said JL played "a lot games against inferior competition" and "In a notoriously slow conference"
I guess "A lot" means 3 of their 12 games. And five one hundreds of a second is "notoriously slow"
- Average time:
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oldcow1945 said:
This name calling makes you come across as a real jerk. I suspect the perception is true.Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.
Consider the source. Some people can't debate intelligently without name calling. There's one opinion and that's theirs. NO one else is entitled to one.
Name callers always show their true colors. They're generally the most bitter posters, and rarely do they have anything good to say about anything.
Overall unhappy people who can't coexist on a message board. Normal people don't call people names to their face very often over a football discussion.
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Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.
It's more likely a kid from Ohio or Minnesota is going to head to Florida or South Carolina v. the other kids heading up north.
That is why when you compare the conferences, you really need to look at the bottom tier schools in each...and that is where the big difference occurs, and what in the end most of the time makes the top teams slightly better...they play better, deeper teams week after week.
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Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.
It's more likely a kid from Ohio or Minnesota is going to head to Florida or South Carolina v. the other kids heading up north.
That is why when you compare the conferences, you really need to look at the bottom tier schools in each...and that is where the big difference occurs, and what in the end most of the time makes the top teams slightly better...they play better, deeper teams week after week.
Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.
I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.
One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)
The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.
Florida
Texas
California
Georgia
Ohio
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Good gosh....any difference in the conferences isn't in speed or power...they all attract quality players....it's in the depth of the individual teams and the entire conference.
Bottom line is more kids want to play in places where the weather isn't crap 6 of the 9 months they are in school, thus SEC schools tend to get more of the blue chippers v. Big 10 schools.
I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.
One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)
The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.
Florida
Texas
California
Georgia
Ohio
oldcow1945 said:
I wouldn't disagree with that. But I'd also add that there are just a lot of good football players now in the south and they simply stay home. Of the 97 players on the Florida Gator roster only three are from Northern states. Two from NJ and one from CT.One the other hand OSU has 15 southern players on their roster, 7 of them from Florida. (With another one this year in Jamaal Berry. The state of Florida's #1 Running back)
The states which have the most high quailty football players according to recruiting numbers are as follows.
Florida
Texas
California
Georgia
Ohio
I think the SEC swing has went the way it has simply because we are losing population up north. Pluto keeps harping on this and I can't disagree with him. More and more people are leaving the midwest, so not only are they leaving here they are moving to the south and giving them more of an influx of talent.
I still say it's cyclical and there is no doubt that the Big Ten is down right now, but they still can put out as good a players as anybody else, that will never be in question.
The scheduling thing is a joke. SEC teams play totally weak teams non conference. OSU is keeping lots of games in state to help fellow state schools.
I also believe the Big 12 has benefited from population movement.
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Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Big Ten: 4.474
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC. Stats really don't impact this year but the preception that the Big Ten is a weak and inferior conference by some here is crazy knowing the amount of players that go to the NFL every year. DBTH makes the Big Ten sound like the WAC and he was talking about LBs not speed guys.
Basically he was trying to downgrade Launaritias because of playing in an inferior conference. Absolutely absurd.
But, weren't we talking LBs and not WR. How about LBs from the Big Ten vs LBs from the SEC.
Ask, and you shall receive:
- Average 40 times:
- SEC: 4.68
- Ten: 4.71
- Average time:
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Aloysius said:
I looked them up, and I got 21 SEC receivers and 18 Big Ten guys. Of those, nfldraftscout had 12 Combine times for SEC guys and 9 for Big Ten guys. And if you calculate the average 40 times, you get the following:- Average time:
- SEC: 4.425
- Ten: 4.474
That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.
I'm ROTFL here!
oldcow1945 said:
That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.I'm ROTFL here!
Yeah, it's truly hilarious
Not sure that a .05 second difference is completely insignificant, but I'll put that aside for now. What you didn't see from looking at those numbers is that there were a lot more 4.3 guys among the SEC crew. While only 33% of the Big Ten guys registered times below 4.4, a full 50% of the SEC guys timed in the 4.3's. Because of the ridiculously small sample size, it's hard to tell whether that's indicative of anything, but it at least suggests that elite speed is more common in the SEC.
- Average time:
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Gotta agree that that is an odd statement that L is not a heavy hitter.. He would be a second round steal.. If if that statement is true.. even if his pro day may not have been great (I did not see it).. I have seen the guy play.. he has speed, and instincts, he can tackle and flat out makles plays.. just watch the game film..he is a good player..
I don't think he is the next LT or Seau and maybe not a perennial pro bowler.. but I believe he will be a solid..SOLID NFL starter.. If we can get that in round 2.. that's fine by me.. He is definately not a #5 pick..but in the second round...... ABSOLUTELY (insert sylvester stallone accent here)
Maybe not the next LT or Seau but very well could be the next Brian Urlacker. Seems that's who most scouts compare him to.
Bad 40...........................WTF he was better then Maualuga. A 4.7 40 for a ILB isn't bad, so what about his pro day was bad.............Everything I read said he did very well. And his 3 years as an All American and multiple individual defensive awards, including defensive player of the year and best LB speak for themselves.
Tired of hearing people dissing this guy when he has proven to be a hell of a football player, with good character, never complains and suits up every week to play. BTW, he leaves it on the field every week. He gives the 100% and never asks for anything because he loves the game.
Maybe not the next LT or Seau but very well could be the next Brian Urlacker. Seems that's who most scouts compare him to.
To be honest, I haven't heard that comparison used in a long time. nfldraftscout compares him to Rob Morris (which I think is a little too uncharitable).
Urlacher possesses a rare combination of size and athleticism: he can cover the deep zone like a Tampa 2 ILB must do, but he's also big & strong enough to stuff the run. I like Laurinaitis, but I don't think he possesses those same traits.
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oldcow1945 said:
That is five one hundreds faster! Five one hundreds of one second!!! Talk about insignificant! That is literally a photo finish!!! It proves just the opposite Aloy. If you think five one hundreds lends credence to there not being any similarity then this discussion is not worth it's while.I'm ROTFL here!
Yeah, it's truly hilarious
Not sure that a .05 second difference is completely insignificant, but I'll put that aside for now. What you didn't see from looking at those numbers is that there were a lot more 4.3 guys among the SEC crew. While only 33% of the Big Ten guys registered times below 4.4, a full 50% of the SEC guys timed in the 4.3's. Because of the ridiculously small sample size, it's hard to tell whether that's indicative of anything, but it at least suggests that elite speed is more common in the SEC.
Aloysius said:
Yeah, it's truly hilarious
Not sure that a .05 second difference is completely insignificant, but I'll put that aside for now. What you didn't see from looking at those numbers is that there were a lot more 4.3 guys among the SEC crew. While only 33% of the Big Ten guys registered times below 4.4, a full 50% of the SEC guys timed in the 4.3's. Because of the ridiculously small sample size, it's hard to tell whether that's indicative of anything, but it at least suggests that elite speed is more common in the SEC.
How did you get 50% of 21?
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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