Browns nail 7 out of Top 100
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I disagree. You don't rank a team's draft by how many of the top 100 they got, you rank it by whether or not they improved their team.
And you don't think that that getting a pass rusher, a run stuffing DT, another DE, a top notch OL, a MLB, DBs etc. imporves the team. Is your name Bo Diddley?
It's fantastic that we got (seemingly) quality players, but it's all for naught if none of them actually contribute whatsoever. Then our draft would have been an F.
No one, no one can possibly know that for several years.
It's fair that we got the grade we did. Yes, we may have gotten a few steals, but our pre-draft areas of need (according to pundits) were QB and WR, which we did not address.
Sorry, no. Those may have been YOUR perceived pre-draft need.....but those weren't MY perceived pre draft needs....NOT AT ALL. And they weren't apparently the Browns perceived pre-draft needs.
We got 2 WRs in FA. We took a QB in round one last year. We REALLY didn't need a WR given that we had Hartline/Bowe/Hawkins/Gabriel/Benjamin/Moore etc.
We didn't need another project at QB. Not one that was not perceived as top notch and we weren't getting Winston or Mariota.
Clue for you: Johnny Manziel would rate out as a higher prospect right now than Petty/Hundley etc. etc. You want a top prospect project at QB? You got one on your roster now.
What the Browns needed out of this draft were: A. A run stuffer....check. B. A quality OLineman....check C. A pass rusher....check D. A tight end....check...we got two. E. Depth a LB and DL....check F. A playmaker.....check.
Regardless of what we did at other positions, we did not improve in those positions - therefore our B grade.
Except, of course, we very well may have improved at WR. They got Mayles in round 4. A lot of Hall of Famers/Pro Bowlers have come out of round 4. Yes, we did address that need. The QB thing was NEVER in the cards for this year.....and anyone that they took would have been just another rookie project of lower rating than the guy we got now.
The draft is about making your team better - not about drafting more highly ranked guys than anyone else.
Exactafuckingmundo......and if you draft what are perceived to be 7 out of the top 100 players......and many or most of them pan out.....you goddamn good and well have improved your team. I will take 7 players that add to the depth and strength of this team over one guy at one position that may or may not be any good.
I disagree. You don't rank a team's draft by how many of the top 100 they got, you rank it by whether or not they improved their team.
And you don't think that that getting a pass rusher, a run stuffing DT, another DE, a top notch OL, a MLB, DBs etc. imporves the team. Is your name Bo Diddley?
I do think that. But I also can think other things - like we have a perceived hole at both QB and WR.
It's fantastic that we got (seemingly) quality players, but it's all for naught if none of them actually contribute whatsoever. Then our draft would have been an F.
No one, no one can possibly know that for several years.
Hence the stupidity in grading drafts two days after.
It's fair that we got the grade we did. Yes, we may have gotten a few steals, but our pre-draft areas of need (according to pundits) were QB and WR, which we did not address.
Sorry, no. Those may have been YOUR perceived pre-draft need.....but those weren't MY perceived pre draft needs....NOT AT ALL. And they weren't apparently the Browns perceived pre-draft needs.
I did say "according to pundits", didn't I? However I do love the whole "apparently the FO thinks the same as I do, therefore I'm right" arguments that are getting thrown around this place. Nothing like an NFL draft to pull out the petulant bitchiness of seemingly grown men.
We got 2 WRs in FA. We took a QB in round one last year. We REALLY didn't need a WR given that we had Hartline/Bowe/Hawkins/Gabriel/Benjamin/Moore etc.
I feel the same way. However, if there were a year to add a mid - round WR, it probably would have been this year. Just as next year is probably the year for QB's.
We didn't need another project at QB. Not one that was not perceived as top notch and we weren't getting Winston or Mariota.
Promoting competition at every position is always a good thing.
Clue for you: Johnny Manziel would rate out as a higher prospect right now than Petty/Hundley etc. etc. You want a top prospect project at QB? You got one on your roster now.
Clue for you: after his abortion of a season last year...no he wouldn't. But that was a nice try.
What the Browns needed out of this draft were: A. A run stuffer....check. B. A quality OLineman....check C. A pass rusher....check D. A tight end....check...we got two. E. Depth a LB and DL....check F. A playmaker.....check.
You can't check off any of those because, as you said, no one can possibly know that for several years. What we did get was a DT prospect, a DE prospect, a ILB prospect, an OLB prospect, a WR prospect, a CB prospect and an OL prospect.
Regardless of what we did at other positions, we did not improve in those positions - therefore our B grade.
Except, of course, we very well may have improved at WR. They got Mayles in round 4. A lot of Hall of Famers/Pro Bowlers have come out of round 4. Yes, we did address that need. The QB thing was NEVER in the cards for this year.....and anyone that they took would have been just another rookie project of lower rating than the guy we got now.
Once again, doubtful. Are you Ray Farmer? Okay, then stop purporting to know what the fuck he was thinking.
The draft is about making your team better - not about drafting more highly ranked guys than anyone else.
Exactafuckingmundo......and if you draft what are perceived to be 7 out of the top 100 players......and many or most of them pan out.....you goddamn good and well have improved your team. I will take 7 players that add to the depth and strength of this team over one guy at one position that may or may not be any good.
So if we drafted 7 of the Top 100 players and they were all DT's, our team would be dramatically improved?
No.
Further, you act as if these "top 100" rankings indicate that a player will, in fact, have NFL success, completely disregarding the fact that these rankings are created by the very pundits you are chastising. Hell of an argument.
Jesus Christ, I'm glad none of you are in charge. The ones who don't know what the fuck they are talking about are almost as loud and obnoxious as the ones who do know what they are talking about. I can't tell which is worse.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
And, by the way, don't sit on WRs drafted in later rounds, as Mayle was. Here are the rounds in which HOF receivers have been taken:
Round 1: Rice, Irvin, Monk, Lofton, Swann, Warfield, Charley Taylor, Elroy Hirsch
Round 2: Biletnikoff
Round 3: Tommy McDonald
Round 4: Joiner, Stallworth, Largent, Reed, Carter
Round 7: Hayes
Round 9: Maynard
Round 11: Tom Fears
Round 12: Dante Lavelli
So, how do we know our 4th round guy Mayles is not another John Stallworth?
And, by the way, don't sit on WRs drafted in later rounds, as Mayle was. Here are the rounds in which HOF receivers have been taken:
Round 1: Rice, Irvin, Monk, Lofton, Swann, Warfield, Charley Taylor, Elroy Hirsch
Round 2: Biletnikoff
Round 3: Tommy McDonald
Round 4: Joiner, Stallworth, Largent, Reed, Carter
Round 7: Hayes
Round 9: Maynard
Round 11: Tom Fears
Round 12: Dante Lavelli
So, how do we know our 4th round guy Mayles is not another John Stallworth?
Could be.
Could also be a Carlos Francis, Ernest Wilford, Shaun McDonald, Sam Aiken, Ron Johnson, Marcus Smith, William Franklin, Marcus Easley, Mardy Gilyard, Kris Durham, Edmund Gates or Tandon Doss.
How about we let them hit the practice field before we start with the HOF comparisons?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I disagree. You don't rank a team's draft by how many of the top 100 they got, you rank it by whether or not they improved their team.
And you don't think that that getting a pass rusher, a run stuffing DT, another DE, a top notch OL, a MLB, DBs etc. imporves the team. Is your name Bo Diddley?
I do think that. But I also can think other things - like we have a perceived hole at both QB and WR.
It's fantastic that we got (seemingly) quality players, but it's all for naught if none of them actually contribute whatsoever. Then our draft would have been an F.
No one, no one can possibly know that for several years.
Hence the stupidity in grading drafts two days after.
It's fair that we got the grade we did. Yes, we may have gotten a few steals, but our pre-draft areas of need (according to pundits) were QB and WR, which we did not address.
Sorry, no. Those may have been YOUR perceived pre-draft need.....but those weren't MY perceived pre draft needs....NOT AT ALL. And they weren't apparently the Browns perceived pre-draft needs.
I did say "according to pundits", didn't I? However I do love the whole "apparently the FO thinks the same as I do, therefore I'm right" arguments that are getting thrown around this place. Nothing like an NFL draft to pull out the petulant bitchiness of seemingly grown men.
We got 2 WRs in FA. We took a QB in round one last year. We REALLY didn't need a WR given that we had Hartline/Bowe/Hawkins/Gabriel/Benjamin/Moore etc.
I feel the same way. However, if there were a year to add a mid - round WR, it probably would have been this year. Just as next year is probably the year for QB's.
We didn't need another project at QB. Not one that was not perceived as top notch and we weren't getting Winston or Mariota.
Promoting competition at every position is always a good thing.
Clue for you: Johnny Manziel would rate out as a higher prospect right now than Petty/Hundley etc. etc. You want a top prospect project at QB? You got one on your roster now.
Clue for you: after his abortion of a season last year...no he wouldn't. But that was a nice try.
What the Browns needed out of this draft were: A. A run stuffer....check. B. A quality OLineman....check C. A pass rusher....check D. A tight end....check...we got two. E. Depth a LB and DL....check F. A playmaker.....check.
You can't check off any of those because, as you said, no one can possibly know that for several years. What we did get was a DT prospect, a DE prospect, a ILB prospect, an OLB prospect, a WR prospect, a CB prospect and an OL prospect.
Regardless of what we did at other positions, we did not improve in those positions - therefore our B grade.
Except, of course, we very well may have improved at WR. They got Mayles in round 4. A lot of Hall of Famers/Pro Bowlers have come out of round 4. Yes, we did address that need. The QB thing was NEVER in the cards for this year.....and anyone that they took would have been just another rookie project of lower rating than the guy we got now.
Once again, doubtful. Are you Ray Farmer? Okay, then stop purporting to know what the fuck he was thinking.
The draft is about making your team better - not about drafting more highly ranked guys than anyone else.
Exactafuckingmundo......and if you draft what are perceived to be 7 out of the top 100 players......and many or most of them pan out.....you goddamn good and well have improved your team. I will take 7 players that add to the depth and strength of this team over one guy at one position that may or may not be any good.
So if we drafted 7 of the Top 100 players and they were all DT's, our team would be dramatically improved?
No.
Further, you act as if these "top 100" rankings indicate that a player will, in fact, have NFL success, completely disregarding the fact that these rankings are created by the very pundits you are chastising. Hell of an argument.
Jesus Christ, I'm glad none of you are in charge. The ones who don't know what the fuck they are talking about are almost as loud and obnoxious as the ones who do know what they are talking about. I can't tell which is worse.
So if we drafted 7 of the Top 100 players and they were all DT's, our team would be dramatically improved?
They drafted a DT, OG, RB, OLB, MLB, CB, DE....all of whom were top 100......so why are you asking such an inane question
No.
Further, you act as if these "top 100" rankings indicate that a player will, in fact, have NFL success, completely disregarding the fact that these rankings are created by the very pundits you are chastising. Hell of an argument.
I would rather have 7 of the top 100 than none or one of the Top 100. Historically, statistically YES a player ranked in the top 100 DOES have a better chance of NFL success
Jesus Christ, I'm glad none of you are in charge.
Well, thank God you are not....as apparently you would choose all Division III players and think we could do just as well as taking the top rated players.
The ones who don't know what the fuck they are talking about are almost as loud and obnoxious as the ones who do know what they are talking about. I can't tell which is worse.
Fine, you can't tell which prognosticator is good and which isn't.
But what are we supposed to do about that?
If this were a perfect science then every 1st round draft pick in history would be better than every 2d rounder in history. etc. etc.
All we can go by are what people who are supposed to know, know.
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WR are only used to complete a team.. they don't MAKE the offense.
Rice was only great because SF had the best offense BEFORE he was drafted.
How many all-pro WR's won the SB with New England? How many SB's have Megatron, Dez, or Demaryius won?
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And, by the way, don't sit on WRs drafted in later rounds, as Mayle was. Here are the rounds in which HOF receivers have been taken:
Round 1: Rice, Irvin, Monk, Lofton, Swann, Warfield, Charley Taylor, Elroy Hirsch
Round 2: Biletnikoff
Round 3: Tommy McDonald
Round 4: Joiner, Stallworth, Largent, Reed, Carter
Round 7: Hayes
Round 9: Maynard
Round 11: Tom Fears
Round 12: Dante Lavelli
So, how do we know our 4th round guy Mayles is not another John Stallworth?
Could be.
Could also be a Carlos Francis, Ernest Wilford, Shaun McDonald, Sam Aiken, Ron Johnson, Marcus Smith, William Franklin, Marcus Easley, Mardy Gilyard, Kris Durham, Edmund Gates or Tandon Doss.
How about we let them hit the practice field before we start with the HOF comparisons?
Could be.
Could also be a Carlos Francis, Ernest Wilford, Shaun McDonald, Sam Aiken, Ron Johnson, Marcus Smith, William Franklin, Marcus Easley, Mardy Gilyard, Kris Durham, Edmund Gates or Tandon Doss.
How about we let them hit the practice field before we start with the HOF comparisons?
Agreed. Ranking drafts is meaningless until they actually perform on the field.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Here is where CBS Sports listed our draftees on their prospect rankings:
#10 Shelton
#24 Erving
#56 Johnson
#69 Orchard
# 79 Cooper
#109 Olamu
#127 Campbell
#150 Mayle
#162 Gaines
#288 Pullard
#366 Telfer
#488 Johnson
The biggest variance of opinion is on Pullard. Injuries may have been a factor in his lower ranking here.
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And, by the way, don't sit on WRs drafted in later rounds, as Mayle was. Here are the rounds in which HOF receivers have been taken:
Round 1: Rice, Irvin, Monk, Lofton, Swann, Warfield, Charley Taylor, Elroy Hirsch
Round 2: Biletnikoff
Round 3: Tommy McDonald
Round 4: Joiner, Stallworth, Largent, Reed, Carter
Round 7: Hayes
Round 9: Maynard
Round 11: Tom Fears
Round 12: Dante Lavelli
So, how do we know our 4th round guy Mayles is not another John Stallworth?
Could be.
Could also be a Carlos Francis, Ernest Wilford, Shaun McDonald, Sam Aiken, Ron Johnson, Marcus Smith, William Franklin, Marcus Easley, Mardy Gilyard, Kris Durham, Edmund Gates or Tandon Doss.
How about we let them hit the practice field before we start with the HOF comparisons?
Could be.
Could also be a Carlos Francis, Ernest Wilford, Shaun McDonald, Sam Aiken, Ron Johnson, Marcus Smith, William Franklin, Marcus Easley, Mardy Gilyard, Kris Durham, Edmund Gates or Tandon Doss.
How about we let them hit the practice field before we start with the HOF comparisons?
We have seen them in college games....which is better than the practice field......seeing them everywhere is helpful. People thought Jamarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf were going to be the shit.
At THIS point is all these guys careers however, all we can do is to see how they have done up to this point.....and try to discern what the so called experts. One expert rates a guy #68 overall.....another rates him #288 overall.
Farmer thought a lot of these guys....expecially the later rounders....were pretty good. So far....in a small sampling, he has been pretty good choosing these late round players.
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Could be.
Could also be a Carlos Francis, Ernest Wilford, Shaun McDonald, Sam Aiken, Ron Johnson, Marcus Smith, William Franklin, Marcus Easley, Mardy Gilyard, Kris Durham, Edmund Gates or Tandon Doss.
How about we let them hit the practice field before we start with the HOF comparisons?
Agreed. Ranking drafts is meaningless until they actually perform on the field.
Agreed. Ranking drafts is meaningless until they actually perform on the field.
And we won't have a real judgment on that for 3-4 years, will we.
Some thought we drafted the next Dallas Cowboy "Triplets" (Aikman/Irvin/Smith) when we got Weeden/Richardson/Gordon.
So, clearly we must wait.
But unless you want to suspend your account for these next few years and come back then to talk, we will continue to assess and speculate on how the Browns did in the last few days.
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I loved the draft. We didn't seem to reach for anyone.
However, the only pick I DIDN'T like was Duke Johnson over Sammy Coates. I feel Coates is going to give us hell in Pittsburgh
I never dreamed Coates would make it that far into the 3rd
I loved the draft. We didn't seem to reach for anyone.
However, the only pick I DIDN'T like was Duke Johnson over Sammy Coates. I feel Coates is going to give us hell in Pittsburgh
I never dreamed Coates would make it that far into the 3rd
I couldn't diagree more, It is well known Coates has a major case of the dropsies, I wouldn't take Coates higher then a 5th. He will end up like Greg Little. He had a 20% drop rate.
I wanted Darren Waller.
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While Kiper is a homer about Baltimore's draft....and his love for Maxx Williams, I will say that both Balt and Pitt did have good drafts. Here are the teams that scored the best in my opinion, no order:
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
While Kiper is a homer about Baltimore's draft....and his love for Maxx Williams, I will say that both Balt and Pitt did have good drafts. Here are the teams that scored the best in my opinion, no order:
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
You don't think NYJ did good?
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I loved the draft. We didn't seem to reach for anyone.
However, the only pick I DIDN'T like was Duke Johnson over Sammy Coates. I feel Coates is going to give us hell in Pittsburgh
I never dreamed Coates would make it that far into the 3rd
I couldn't diagree more, It is well known Coates has a major case of the dropsies, I wouldn't take Coates higher then a 5th. He will end up like Greg Little. He had a 20% drop rate.
I wanted Darren Waller.
I couldn't diagree more, It is well known Coates has a major case of the dropsies, I wouldn't take Coates higher then a 5th. He will end up like Greg Little. He had a 20% drop rate.
I wanted Darren Waller.
Coates is going to be our 5th receiver. He's an athletic freak of nature and his catching will improve. Its also not going to be Coates giving teams fits but instead martavis Bryant who Coates is pretty much a clone.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Coates will be better if he cleans up the inconsistency.
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I couldn't diagree more, It is well known Coates has a major case of the dropsies, I wouldn't take Coates higher then a 5th. He will end up like Greg Little. He had a 20% drop rate.
I wanted Darren Waller.
Coates is going to be our 5th receiver. He's an athletic freak of nature and his catching will improve. Its also not going to be Coates giving teams fits but instead martavis Bryant who Coates is pretty much a clone.
Coates is going to be our 5th receiver. He's an athletic freak of nature and his catching will improve. Its also not going to be Coates giving teams fits but instead martavis Bryant who Coates is pretty much a clone.
Hands will improve? I doubt it. Greg Little didn't improve- Neither did Peter Warrick, neither did Willis Adams. By the time you get to the pros, you can either catch the ball, or you can't. We learned that the hard way several times.
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Coates is going to be our 5th receiver. He's an athletic freak of nature and his catching will improve. Its also not going to be Coates giving teams fits but instead martavis Bryant who Coates is pretty much a clone.
Hands will improve? I doubt it. Greg Little didn't improve- Neither did Peter Warrick, neither did Willis Adams. By the time you get to the pros, you can either catch the ball, or you can't. We learned that the hard way several times.
Hands will improve? I doubt it. Greg Little didn't improve- Neither did Peter Warrick, neither did Willis Adams. By the time you get to the pros, you can either catch the ball, or you can't. We learned that the hard way several times.
Braylon Edwards...I remember browns losing a game solely because a wide open Edwards dropped the ball. There was nothing but turf in front of him.
Coates needs to be made to understand that he won't last long as a Steeler if he continues to drop catchable passes...see Limas Sweed.
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All you need to do is look at the players KC drafted when Farmer and Kuharic were part of that front office. They know how to scout and draft. In a few years we will be calling this the best Browns draft since they returned.
Everyone loves to just oversimplify. Draft a QB everyone says. Well, if you draft a talented QB without a solid team around him he is going to fail (ex: Tim Couch). There was no QB in this draft that we could get that without mortgaging the future that wouldn't have been a project. Would I have liked to see a WR and TE added third round or better? Sure, but only if the value makes sense.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
Jacksonville nailed it for me, quality starters in all positions.
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While Kiper is a homer about Baltimore's draft....and his love for Maxx Williams, I will say that both Balt and Pitt did have good drafts. Here are the teams that scored the best in my opinion, no order:
Cleveland
Jacksonville
Oakland
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
You don't think NYJ did good?
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I couldn't diagree more, It is well known Coates has a major case of the dropsies, I wouldn't take Coates higher then a 5th. He will end up like Greg Little. He had a 20% drop rate.
I wanted Darren Waller.
Coates is going to be our 5th receiver. He's an athletic freak of nature and his catching will improve. Its also not going to be Coates giving teams fits but instead martavis Bryant who Coates is pretty much a clone.
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I couldn't diagree more, It is well known Coates has a major case of the dropsies, I wouldn't take Coates higher then a 5th. He will end up like Greg Little. He had a 20% drop rate.
I wanted Darren Waller.
Coates is going to be our 5th receiver. He's an athletic freak of nature and his catching will improve. Its also not going to be Coates giving teams fits but instead martavis Bryant who Coates is pretty much a clone.
Coates is going to be our 5th receiver. He's an athletic freak of nature and his catching will improve. Its also not going to be Coates giving teams fits but instead martavis Bryant who Coates is pretty much a clone.
You call every person that is on the Steelers roster "an athletic freak of nature". Quit being so cliche. I mean, Andre the Giant was an athletic freak of nature. Manute Bol was an athletic freak of nature. This guy is not. He is no more of an athletic freak of nature than any of the WRs taken before him. Just say what he is: a good athlete with potential.
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CBS thinks the Browns did even better:
Cleveland Browns
For a team with a lot of needs, the Browns added a lot of pieces to their roster with 12 draft picks over the last three days. After temptation to possibly package picks for Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota, Cleveland hoarded picks and ended up with 12 selections, including two “safe” players in the first round with nose tackle Danny Shelton and offensive lineman Cameron Erving. The Browns were very active with Pac-12 players (58-percent of their draft class) with Shelton, Utah pass rusher Nate Orchard, Washington State defensive tackle Xavier Cooper, Washington State wide receiver Vince Mayle, USC tight end Randall Telfer, USC linebacker Hayes Pullard and Oregon cornerback Ifo Ekpre-Olomu. That final pick is tremendous value for a first round player who is coming off a knee injury and likely needs a redshirt season as a NFL rookie. The Browns wound up with eight players who were on my final top-100 draft board.
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