Defensive Line - odd men out
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After the draft we now have:
Phil Taylor
Danny Shelton
ishmaa'ily Kitchen
Randy Starks
Des Bryant
Billy Winn
John Hughes
Xavier Cooper
Armonty Bryant
Jacobbi McDaniel
Calvin Barnett
Those last two were on the PS all of last year, more or less. That's 11 linemen - Armonty was being talked about as converting to OLB, but with Nate Orchard who knows how likely that is. Last year we carried 7 guys - Bryant, Bryant, Taylor, Kitchen, Hughes, Rubin, Winn - on the active roster, plus those two on the PS.
So who stays, who goes, and who drops to the PS?
My guess, Kitchen goes, McDaniel and Barnett go back to the PS or are maybe just flat out cut. Armonty is kept as a tweener - bigger OLB for running downs, more pass-rushing DE for passing downs.
Any surprise cuts coming, or post-draft trades?
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Armonty showed some real promise before going down with the injury last year. I hope he comes back to form with that but if he doesn't I wouldn't be surprised if he hits the cuts list. The other Bryant may be a cap dump but I'd be surprised if he didn't make the squad.
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I can see Monty playing Sheard's role. Stepping in during obvious run downs and situations to provide a bigger body on the outside. If he comes back healthy, I also wouldn't rule him out putting his hand in the ground as a 5tech. I'm sure he could alternate between both roles to provide quality depth.
Of the list you have, Monty will be moved to a 'linebacker' on the roster, so I'd scratch him off.
Calvin and Barnnet to PS. Kitchen might be the one most in trouble to lose his spot. That would mean 7 big bodies for 3 spots on the dline.
edit: Special consideration to Taylor. I think it depends on how his rehab and strength are progressing. He carries a pretty high dollar amount this season.
Part of me believes the team will bite the bullet and hope he returns to his Cincy game form when he was just clogging up the middle against a solid Dline. The
other part of me says his career has been a bit underwhelming and maybe the front office thinks they can get similar production from Kitchen at greater value.
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Hughes goes.
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Hughes goes.
Hughes goes.
Hughes was just given a contract extension.
edit: My apologies, he was just signed to a new contract. So, yeah....
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Monty is def staying this year, he's gonna spell Kruger a lot...which was def necessary. Keeping Kruger fresh is a must this year. When he's healthy he's a terror. Hopefully with the addition of Orchard everybody's reps goes down a little and Kruger can put back on a few lbs and get his bulrush back.
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I would hate to see either Hughes or Winn go. Keeping 8 could be the key.
Try doing this for the whole front 7....LBs included. With this "hybrid" defense sometimes you can't tell if a guy is a DE or OLB....or interchangeable.
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Hughes goes.
Hughes was just given a contract extension.
edit: My apologies, he was just signed to a new contract. So, yeah....
Hughes was just given a contract extension.
edit: My apologies, he was just signed to a new contract. So, yeah....
Out of necessity. In March (when the contract was signed), Hughes was likely a starter. Now, he's a backup/depth player. He's going to garner the most value of any of our DL, most likely. I'd rather trade a depth guy and recoup a small bit of value then cut someone and recoup nothing - especially if we're looking at 2016 as our year for a franchise QB.
Hughes is young, talented and a local boy, but he's a depth player, he's coming off of an injury filled season and he's making a top-20 defensive tackle contract.
It would be nice to keep every single DL we could, but we can only dress 53 and going 3 deep at every position on the line means we're going to be going 2 (or 1) deep somewhere else.
Someone is going to have to go, and it's between Winn, D. Bryant, Kitchen, and Hughes.
Winn has been more productive and costs less.
Des Bryant has been more productive and costs less.
Armonty Bryant could be making the switch to OLB?
Kitchen is a true NT and will draw zero interest on the market.
I'd rather lose Hughes, gain a draft pick, and get his contract off the books.
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Last year we started with 7 and finished with 6....plus 8 LB's....so I think 7 is the max on DL.....
My odd men out are Desmond Bryant and Kitchen....
And if we move Armonty to LB, along with keeping Orchard and Pullard, then Solomon and Carder gotta go.....
And if we keep him up front, then add a 3 DL lineman to the cut list....(Winn?)
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Id debate the whole "who costs more", as Des Bryant is the 5th highest paid Brown and makes almost triple what any other linemen make.....if anybodies overpaid, it's Desmond Bryant....
Id debate the whole "who costs more", as Des Bryant is the 5th highest paid Brown and makes almost triple what any other linemen make.....if anybodies overpaid, it's Desmond Bryant....
This. However Desmond brings a pass rushing ability to this front that only Cooper may be able to match. In this day and age when getting to the QB is at a premium, interior big men that can cause havoc in the passing lanes is becoming more and more vital. Shortest distance between two points.
As for Hughes, he still won't command as much money as Phil and to date (when factoring cost,draft position, production with injury) has outplayed Taylor.
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Id debate the whole "who costs more", as Des Bryant is the 5th highest paid Brown and makes almost triple what any other linemen make.....if anybodies overpaid, it's Desmond Bryant....
This. However Desmond brings a pass rushing ability to this front that only Cooper may be able to match. In this day and age when getting to the QB is at a premium, interior big men that can cause havoc in the passing lanes is becoming more and more vital. Shortest distance between two points.
As for Hughes, he still won't command as much money as Phil and to date (when factoring cost,draft position, production with injury) has outplayed Taylor.
This. However Desmond brings a pass rushing ability to this front that only Cooper may be able to match. In this day and age when getting to the QB is at a premium, interior big men that can cause havoc in the passing lanes is becoming more and more vital. Shortest distance between two points.
As for Hughes, he still won't command as much money as Phil and to date (when factoring cost,draft position, production with injury) has outplayed Taylor.
Hughes has been our top rated DL for 2 straight years and has also been our #1 ranked DL against the run. Aside from the injury this season, he's the most productive......just dont understand wanting to get rid of him at all....
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This. However Desmond brings a pass rushing ability to this front that only Cooper may be able to match. In this day and age when getting to the QB is at a premium, interior big men that can cause havoc in the passing lanes is becoming more and more vital. Shortest distance between two points.
As for Hughes, he still won't command as much money as Phil and to date (when factoring cost,draft position, production with injury) has outplayed Taylor.
Hughes has been our top rated DL for 2 straight years and has also been our #1 ranked DL against the run. Aside from the injury this season, he's the most productive......just dont understand wanting to get rid of him at all....
Hughes has been our top rated DL for 2 straight years and has also been our #1 ranked DL against the run. Aside from the injury this season, he's the most productive......just dont understand wanting to get rid of him at all....
You have Hughes who, as of today, is our best run stopper. You have Desmond who, as of today, is our best pass rusher on the interior. Neither of them are in danger of being replaced. Especially when you toss in Farmers idea of sending out waves of 'specialty' players.
Which brings me back to my original point. Taylor and Kitchen would be the most likely. The two least likely (for this year) are Desmond and Hughes. Barring something crazy happening.
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It may be a moot point if one of these guys gets hurt in preseason, but I think Kitchen and Winn are the guys likely to be cut. Barnett and McDaniel are done...
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Id debate the whole "who costs more", as Des Bryant is the 5th highest paid Brown and makes almost triple what any other linemen make.....if anybodies overpaid, it's Desmond Bryant....
This. However Desmond brings a pass rushing ability to this front that only Cooper may be able to match. In this day and age when getting to the QB is at a premium, interior big men that can cause havoc in the passing lanes is becoming more and more vital. Shortest distance between two points.
As for Hughes, he still won't command as much money as Phil and to date (when factoring cost,draft position, production with injury) has outplayed Taylor.
This. However Desmond brings a pass rushing ability to this front that only Cooper may be able to match. In this day and age when getting to the QB is at a premium, interior big men that can cause havoc in the passing lanes is becoming more and more vital. Shortest distance between two points.
As for Hughes, he still won't command as much money as Phil and to date (when factoring cost,draft position, production with injury) has outplayed Taylor.
Id debate the whole "who costs more", as Des Bryant is the 5th highest paid Brown and makes almost triple what any other linemen make.....if anybodies overpaid, it's Desmond Bryant....
I was looking at Monty's contract and Des's stats...that was a brain fart. Des is making a significant amount of change.
This. However Desmond brings a pass rushing ability to this front that only Cooper may be able to match. In this day and age when getting to the QB is at a premium, interior big men that can cause havoc in the passing lanes is becoming more and more vital. Shortest distance between two points.
As for Hughes, he still won't command as much money as Phil and to date (when factoring cost,draft position, production with injury) has outplayed Taylor.
He has outplayed Taylor, I agree. However, I get the feeling that Taylor is going to be in on at least 500 snaps this year, along with Shelton.
Starks, Winn, Des and Hughes are versatile enough to rotate anywhere along the line.
Shelton, Taylor and Kitchen can rotate at 0.
Shelton, Taylor, Starks, Des, Hughes and Cooper can rotate at 3.
Starks, Des, Cooper and Winn can rotate at 5.
By production, versatility and numbers, Kitchen is the odd man out. By contract, Des is the odd man out. For a straight up roster cut, either of those two make sense.
What I was saying, though, is that I'd rather try and recoup something than straight up release a player...and Hughes probably gives us the most value on the market. He's young enough, productive enough, and versatile enough to provide solid mid-round value...while his injury history, contract, and our depth make him the best fit to get rid of.
Overall, our talent at the top means that we won't take a much of a loss at all losing Hughes, Kitchen, Winn or Des. All four of those guys are going to be 100-200 snap players with the current roster we have. Therefore, I would personally rather see us transition that value to somewhere else via trade, rather than a straight up roster cut.
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Reason I make room for Kitchen is the value of the 0 in this D... plus the heightened likelihood of injury inside. Hughes is the alternative, but just has not produced in the position and may well be the odd man out.
But I think the possibility of carrying an 8th D-lineman is there. The offset would likely be one less CB, which due to a combo of PUP, dual roles in the secondary and non-names making the PS seems fairly low risk.
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I think we can safely say the guys we picked up this offseason are safe - Shelton, Cooper and Starks. Hughes was just given a big contract, so I'm assuming he's safe as well. The rest of the guys - Bryant has looked one of our better DLs when healthy. He's taking home a lot of money and has missed quite a few games. Same goes for Phil Taylor, whose fifth year option is for about $5.5m, and has played maybe 10 games in two years.
Kitchen is a cheap option, and depending how they see the future of Taylor can stay or go. Can't see them both staying in the long term. Winn is also cheap and looked good in parts and I think gets to stay another year at least. Either of these guys could be cut, but I think Kitchen goes and Winn stays.
Anybody think we're seeing any trades going down for one of our abundance of linemen?
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Monty will still be considered depth at the 3-4 DE position. We really look deep now, I love it.
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