The Latest on "The Trade"
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By your logic we shouldn't consider anything less than a 1st and a 2nd for DA because we already turned down that offer...
The fact is, THIS FO hasn't turned down anything.
THIS FO is NOT the previous FO...and they value players differently. What the previous FO traded to get BQ has nothing to do with anything at this point. They will do what they feel is best...and if that includes trading BQ...then they will do it.
Add into that equation the financial climate and you can see the value of players dropping considerably. Just look at the Cassel trade and you will get a better idea of how good this trade is.
Personally, I would prefer keeping Quinn as I don't like DA's style of QBing...and I don't think Sanchez is going to be as good as BQ....but my opinion isn't worth squat.
This FO is rebuilding...and new pieces are required to do that. BQ is one of our pieces worth even a little...so this trade has merit. However, OVER-valuing BQ just because the previous FO liked him makes no difference TODAY.
I've never heard anywhere where we turned down a 1st and 2nd for DA. But if we did I would still expect DA's value to go down some because he had a horrible season, comparing that to Quinn doesnt make sense what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start.
It has nothing to do with the previous FO or how the current FO values players, although I'm sure they would both try to get as much as possible for any player so really there's not much defference. It has to do with what the market is for your players, and if the market has already offered two 1st rounders why would you take one 1st rounder, that doesnt seem like it would be in the best interest of your team to me
nmills said:
what has Quinn done to lose trade value, if anything I would say he bolsterd his value with how he performed against denver in his first start.sadly, no. Quinn's performances on the field haven't bolstered shit.
hence all these trade rumors.
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Lombardi: Quinn's support has 'left the building'
I'm a podcast guy. I run solo usually, and have a long commute twice a week from New York to Stamford, CT., site of Rotoworld international headquarters. Even then, there isn't enough time to stay current with my favorites: Adam Carolla, On the DL, Fresh Air, and Bill Simmons. Time spent on the subway without a podcast feels like time wasted. I'm terribly addicted.
The Sports Guy remains atop my rotation. I was listening on the way home last night, and surprisingly found a Rotoworld blurb when listening to Mike Lombardi talk Brady Quinn.
"I'm just hearing things out of Cleveland that don't make me feel Brady Quinn is part of their future. ... (Quinn's) support has left the building. We used to call it sponsorship at the Raiders. When your sponsorship goes, you aren't the same player."
Quinn's "sponsorship" was given out by former GM Phil Savage, and he's long gone. We've documented that Lombardi isn't a huge fan of Quinn recently, saying he lacked accuracy. That's an opinion that doesn't really matter. It matters if the Browns agree with him. It's looking more like they do.
And you thought Eric Mangini was unpopular in Cleveland now. Wait until he trades boy wonder!
I am in the minority thinking that Jay Cutler's most likely 2009 home remains in Denver. But if he gets dealt, it's hard to imagine the Browns not being involved. They are the only team with decent young quarterbacks to deal.
Incidentally, yes, I've tried to get a Rotoworld podcast going for a while. Only so much time in the day, but we're hopeful for one starting before next season. In the meantime, I've cautiously dipped my toe into the 21st century by joining Facebook. We can all be "friends!" So I joined Facebook in time for its inevitable Marvin Harrison-like decline and I listen to NPR podcasts. I feel like the oldest 30-year-old alive.
Next stop, Twitter!
http://blogs.rotoworld.com/Fantasy_Footbal...rt_has_le_1.php
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This trade is idiotic. Why the hell would we want to go with DA for another season?
Why the hell wouldn't we just keep Cutler? We could then ship off DA for a pick, and sign Leftwich or somebody else to be the backup.
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which is why I thought the Jets needed to sweeten the pot a little. They were getting Cutler too cheap with a 1st and 2nd rounder (mid rounders at that). I would expect the Browns to get a 2010 pick in this situation.
The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio.
nmills said:
The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio.Dude are you serious, what has Brady Quinn done in the NFL? one good start against a team with a terrible defense and we still lost the game
All I saw in that game was Quinn dink and dunk all night and you think he is worth 2 1st round draft picks........man tell me what you are smokin
The Browns being able to trade down and also get a additional 1st round pick for a unproven Brady Quinn is a STEAL, this team has many holes to fill and trading Brady will expedite the process.
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This trade is idiotic. Why the hell would we want to go with DA for another season?
Why the hell wouldn't we just keep Cutler? We could then ship off DA for a pick, and sign Leftwich or somebody else to be the backup.
This trade is idiotic. Why the hell would we want to go with DA for another season?
Why the hell wouldn't we just keep Cutler? We could then ship off DA for a pick, and sign Leftwich or somebody else to be the backup.
Because maybe this new regime wants there own quarterback and they don't think that Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson is the many
They may feel better with a Mark Sanchez or Josh Freeman and using the draft choices to fill other holes this team has
This team is in REBUILDING MODE
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This trade is idiotic. Why the hell would we want to go with DA for another season?
Why the hell wouldn't we just keep Cutler? We could then ship off DA for a pick, and sign Leftwich or somebody else to be the backup.
Because maybe this new regime wants there own quarterback and they don't think that Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson is the many
They may feel better with a Mark Sanchez or Josh Freeman and using the draft choices to fill other holes this team has
This team is in REBUILDING MODE
Because maybe this new regime wants there own quarterback and they don't think that Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson is the many
They may feel better with a Mark Sanchez or Josh Freeman and using the draft choices to fill other holes this team has
This team is in REBUILDING MODE
This is all speculation anyway. You have absolutely no idea what Mangini thinks about either of our QB's, and neither does anyone else.
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I think Zombo is right . It is like a leverage buy out .
The new company comes in , sells what equipment they don't want , all the unclean furniture , etc. then builds what they want with the remaining pieces . "Nothing is sacred"..............nothing
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@shepwrite said:
SEVERAL NFL sources say the Browns are dangling BOTH QBs, as if they really can't decide between the two.I think you mean "OBR's BQ-homers are trying to hang onto the belief that they are dangling BOTH QBs"
Hey what do you bet the folks in CBS next fall would be chanting "SAN-CHEZ" after every incomplete pass?
Haha, you know it wouldn't happen, and that's because this is all just a case of man-love for an overhyped hometown golden domer.
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nmills said:
The Jets would have to add a 1st rounder next year before even thinking about considering that trade scenerio.Dude are you serious, what has Brady Quinn done in the NFL? one good start against a team with a terrible defense and we still lost the game
All I saw in that game was Quinn dink and dunk all night and you think he is worth 2 1st round draft picks........man tell me what you are smokin
The Browns being able to trade down and also get a additional 1st round pick for a unproven Brady Quinn is a STEAL, this team has many holes to fill and trading Brady will expedite the process.
Dude are you serious, what has Brady Quinn done in the NFL? one good start against a team with a terrible defense and we still lost the game
All I saw in that game was Quinn dink and dunk all night and you think he is worth 2 1st round draft picks........man tell me what you are smokin
The Browns being able to trade down and also get a additional 1st round pick for a unproven Brady Quinn is a STEAL, this team has many holes to fill and trading Brady will expedite the process.
I already answered that question keep reading but anyway trading Quinn for #17 pick when you can get more?
What are you smoking?
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This trade with Quinn going to Denver is interesting. Seriously, it may be a valid thought...but I have a few things about it that don't make sense:
1. The reason Denver is supposedly interested in Quinn is that they are going to run a 'New England' offense....but the Browns are rumored to be doing the same thing...so wouldn't the BROWNS want Quinn?
2. The Browns reportedly turned down a deal with Minnesota for 2 1sts last year...and NOW they take a 1st and a 2nd?
However, there are also reasons for this to make sense:
1. If the Browns are really in rebuild..AND like one of the QB's in the draft (or like DA)...this is a PERFECT way for the new FO to put their stamp on this team and get optimum picks to rebuild.
2. It ends the QB debate and gets the team behind the QB of choice
3. The Browns have been clearing cap space and spending petty cash in FA...so they must be saving the cash for draft picks (or maybe a late big name FA???)
Basically, I think that this COULD be valid...and as we are NOT going to compete this year anyway...if the team is sold on either DA or one of the QB's in the draft...we will have a couple of years for them to develop into the leader we need...and have a lot more pieces to help them get there.
Right now the Browns have the following picks:
#5
#36
#50
This trade is likely to bring in at least:
#17
#53
and possibly one of the following:
#76
#79
Thereby giving the Browns 5 picks in the top 53 (1st and 2nd rounds) and possible a 3rd rounder. That could go a long way to filling all the needs of this team...and make life a TON easier for whatever QB we put behind center.
Not saying this is the BEST idea...but it sure doesn't look BAD to me.
Not saying this is the BEST idea...but it sure doesn't look BAD to me.
No, it doesn't look bad......but I do think some of the picks might be somewhat different.
You have to put yourself in the Jets shoes and Denvers shoes and forget about the Browns for a moment. We know what we want and what would be fair.
There has to be some other picks from the Jets involved.
If Denver simply wanted Quinn, why not just come to us? They don't have to broker through NY other than we want picks, and they aren't going to give picks away to trade Cutler.
I can't believe Denver would trade Cutler to us in a straight up deal to land Quinn. Sorry folks.....Cutler is worth way more than simply Brady Quinn...fact.....bank it.
In all of this, if it pans out, the Jets are going to have to send Denver some picks....or, we are going to have to send Denver our high first rounder for their 1st rounder, and we get the Jets first rounder...and when thinking about that...that seems fair for this year.
Denver would still need something from the Jets....maybe next years first rounder and this years 2nd.
Cutler is worth more than a few picks....he will bring 3-4 picks from the Jets over time.
So, back to us.....Denver picks 12th this year.....the Jets 17th.......so, I see it we will drop to 12th with Denver getting our selection at #5, and we pick up the Jets selection at #17.
I make that move without much though and even less regret.
You never know....maybe Denver will demand more this year an we will be the ones to get future considerations.
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Not saying this is the BEST idea...but it sure doesn't look BAD to me.
No, it doesn't look bad......but I do think some of the picks might be somewhat different.
You have to put yourself in the Jets shoes and Denvers shoes and forget about the Browns for a moment. We know what we want and what would be fair.
There has to be some other picks from the Jets involved.
If Denver simply wanted Quinn, why not just come to us? They don't have to broker through NY other than we want picks, and they aren't going to give picks away to trade Cutler.
I can't believe Denver would trade Cutler to us in a straight up deal to land Quinn. Sorry folks.....Cutler is worth way more than simply Brady Quinn...fact.....bank it.
In all of this, if it pans out, the Jets are going to have to send Denver some picks....or, we are going to have to send Denver our high first rounder for their 1st rounder, and we get the Jets first rounder...and when thinking about that...that seems fair for this year.
Denver would still need something from the Jets....maybe next years first rounder and this years 2nd.
Cutler is worth more than a few picks....he will bring 3-4 picks from the Jets over time.
So, back to us.....Denver picks 12th this year.....the Jets 17th.......so, I see it we will drop to 12th with Denver getting our selection at #5, and we pick up the Jets selection at #17.
I make that move without much though and even less regret.
You never know....maybe Denver will demand more this year an we will be the ones to get future considerations.
No, it doesn't look bad......but I do think some of the picks might be somewhat different.
You have to put yourself in the Jets shoes and Denvers shoes and forget about the Browns for a moment. We know what we want and what would be fair.
There has to be some other picks from the Jets involved.
If Denver simply wanted Quinn, why not just come to us? They don't have to broker through NY other than we want picks, and they aren't going to give picks away to trade Cutler.
I can't believe Denver would trade Cutler to us in a straight up deal to land Quinn. Sorry folks.....Cutler is worth way more than simply Brady Quinn...fact.....bank it.
In all of this, if it pans out, the Jets are going to have to send Denver some picks....or, we are going to have to send Denver our high first rounder for their 1st rounder, and we get the Jets first rounder...and when thinking about that...that seems fair for this year.
Denver would still need something from the Jets....maybe next years first rounder and this years 2nd.
Cutler is worth more than a few picks....he will bring 3-4 picks from the Jets over time.
So, back to us.....Denver picks 12th this year.....the Jets 17th.......so, I see it we will drop to 12th with Denver getting our selection at #5, and we pick up the Jets selection at #17.
I make that move without much though and even less regret.
You never know....maybe Denver will demand more this year an we will be the ones to get future considerations.
so your ok with giving Quinn and 2nd rounder for a mid 1st.
1st Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU 3rd Darius Slay, CB, Mississippi State4th Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma5th Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State6th Lucas Reed, TE, New Mexico -
@shepwrite said:
SEVERAL NFL sources say the Browns are dangling BOTH QBs, as if they really can't decide between the two.I think you mean "OBR's BQ-homers are trying to hang onto the belief that they are dangling BOTH QBs"
Hey what do you bet the folks in CBS next fall would be chanting "SAN-CHEZ" after every incomplete pass?
Haha, you know it wouldn't happen, and that's because this is all just a case of man-love for an overhyped hometown golden domer.
I think you mean "OBR's BQ-homers are trying to hang onto the belief that they are dangling BOTH QBs"
Hey what do you bet the folks in CBS next fall would be chanting "SAN-CHEZ" after every incomplete pass?
Haha, you know it wouldn't happen, and that's because this is all just a case of man-love for an overhyped hometown golden domer.
Lumberg
Could you please in one post state what you think of the browns, what you think the browns will do for a QB this year, who you think the browns will draft, and who you would like the browns to draft?
Thank You
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No, it doesn't look bad......but I do think some of the picks might be somewhat different.
You have to put yourself in the Jets shoes and Denvers shoes and forget about the Browns for a moment. We know what we want and what would be fair.
There has to be some other picks from the Jets involved.
If Denver simply wanted Quinn, why not just come to us? They don't have to broker through NY other than we want picks, and they aren't going to give picks away to trade Cutler.
I can't believe Denver would trade Cutler to us in a straight up deal to land Quinn. Sorry folks.....Cutler is worth way more than simply Brady Quinn...fact.....bank it.
In all of this, if it pans out, the Jets are going to have to send Denver some picks....or, we are going to have to send Denver our high first rounder for their 1st rounder, and we get the Jets first rounder...and when thinking about that...that seems fair for this year.
Denver would still need something from the Jets....maybe next years first rounder and this years 2nd.
Cutler is worth more than a few picks....he will bring 3-4 picks from the Jets over time.
So, back to us.....Denver picks 12th this year.....the Jets 17th.......so, I see it we will drop to 12th with Denver getting our selection at #5, and we pick up the Jets selection at #17.
I make that move without much though and even less regret.
You never know....maybe Denver will demand more this year an we will be the ones to get future considerations.
so your ok with giving Quinn and 2nd rounder for a mid 1st.
nmills said:
so your ok with giving Quinn and 2nd rounder for a mid 1st.Read the post is all I can say.
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This trade with Quinn going to Denver is interesting. Seriously, it may be a valid thought...but I have a few things about it that don't make sense:
1. The reason Denver is supposedly interested in Quinn is that they are going to run a 'New England' offense....but the Browns are rumored to be doing the same thing...so wouldn't the BROWNS want Quinn?
2. The Browns reportedly turned down a deal with Minnesota for 2 1sts last year...and NOW they take a 1st and a 2nd?
However, there are also reasons for this to make sense:
1. If the Browns are really in rebuild..AND like one of the QB's in the draft (or like DA)...this is a PERFECT way for the new FO to put their stamp on this team and get optimum picks to rebuild.
2. It ends the QB debate and gets the team behind the QB of choice
3. The Browns have been clearing cap space and spending petty cash in FA...so they must be saving the cash for draft picks (or maybe a late big name FA???)
Basically, I think that this COULD be valid...and as we are NOT going to compete this year anyway...if the team is sold on either DA or one of the QB's in the draft...we will have a couple of years for them to develop into the leader we need...and have a lot more pieces to help them get there.
Right now the Browns have the following picks:
#5
#36
#50
This trade is likely to bring in at least:
#17
#53
and possibly one of the following:
#76
#79
Thereby giving the Browns 5 picks in the top 53 (1st and 2nd rounds) and possible a 3rd rounder. That could go a long way to filling all the needs of this team...and make life a TON easier for whatever QB we put behind center.
Not saying this is the BEST idea...but it sure doesn't look BAD to me.
2. The Browns reportedly turned down a deal with Minnesota for 2 1sts last year...and NOW they take a 1st and a 2nd?
Different regime, though, with no connection to Quinn; I could see them taking less.
What doesn't make sense to me is why Savage signed Anderson to what turned out to basically be a permanent starter's deal, but went ahead and hung onto Quinn? For what purpose? You have a guy that is going to make starting money for the next 2 years. Get value for 'the other guy' and move on. That's why I think that story about the Minn. trade is bogus.
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nmills said:
so your ok with giving Quinn and 2nd rounder for a mid 1st.Read the post is all I can say.
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2. The Browns reportedly turned down a deal with Minnesota for 2 1sts last year...and NOW they take a 1st and a 2nd?
Different regime, though, with no connection to Quinn; I could see them taking less.
What doesn't make sense to me is why Savage signed Anderson to what turned out to basically be a permanent starter's deal, but went ahead and hung onto Quinn? For what purpose? You have a guy that is going to make starting money for the next 2 years. Get value for 'the other guy' and move on. That's why I think that story about the Minn. trade is bogus.
Different regime, though, with no connection to Quinn; I could see them taking less.
What doesn't make sense to me is why Savage signed Anderson to what turned out to basically be a permanent starter's deal, but went ahead and hung onto Quinn? For what purpose? You have a guy that is going to make starting money for the next 2 years. Get value for 'the other guy' and move on. That's why I think that story about the Minn. trade is bogus.
It doesnt matter that the previous FO is gone, Minnesota's FO is still there and there the one's that offered it. You think Kokinis doesnt no what Minnesota offered the previous regime.
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Different regime, though, with no connection to Quinn; I could see them taking less.
What doesn't make sense to me is why Savage signed Anderson to what turned out to basically be a permanent starter's deal, but went ahead and hung onto Quinn? For what purpose? You have a guy that is going to make starting money for the next 2 years. Get value for 'the other guy' and move on. That's why I think that story about the Minn. trade is bogus.
It doesnt matter that the previous FO is gone, Minnesota's FO is still there and there the one's that offered it. You think Kokinis doesnt no what Minnesota offered the previous regime.
nmills said:
It doesnt matter that the previous FO is gone, Minnesota's FO is still there and there the one's that offered it. You think Kokinis doesnt no what Minnesota offered the previous regime.While he might know what was offered, *knowing* and *caring* are two entirely different things.
Quinn MIGHT have been worth two first rounders to Minnesota. That was last year. It appears his worth is much less at the present, which is all that matters. It doesn't matter that your house was 'worth' $500,000 last year. This year, someone will only give you $300,000 making that it's value.
Kokinis and Mangini have no loyalties to any of these players. IF they can get what they fell is fair value that will help the team more than keeping the player, they will do it. It doesn't matter what may or may not have been offered in the past.
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My opinion is that you would do this trade. I think that the new front office and coaching staff are looking at the big picture. If you can get two first and a second for your first and BQ then you do it. You live with DA and hope he can be coached up and you draft a QB to replace him NEXT season if you need too.
This is a deep draft at many positions, QB is not one of them. You are not going to trade BQ and draft a QB this year. You draft OL and defense, try and sign a few serviceable receivers in the FA market and go from there. If needed then you try and pick up a QB in next seasons draft when there will be many more quality QBs to choose from.
And as far as what has been offered for either BQ or DA there is no real proof other than rumor for what has ever been offered. We don't know if the Vikings really offered two first for BQ and we don't know if Dallas offered a 1st and 2nd for DA. And even if both situations are true, that was a different front office. That was a different coaching staff.
This coaching staff wants to build the team from the ground up. I don't get why people think that because BQ had a very good game against a HORRIBLE Denver defense that that makes him an automatic star in the league. Yes he hurt himself and had two poor games after that. Give him the benefit of the doubt and start him. But if you can get value in a deep draft and you as a coaching staff are not sold on him then you pull the trigger.
And Lum, please just post your opinion on this trade and make it constructive. This trade is not about DA, it is about BQ. Really the Browns could go sign a QB to fill in for a year and trade both DA and BQ and try and get a franchise QB next year. There is nothing to say that the Browns would not trade both of them.
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nmills said:
It doesnt matter that the previous FO is gone, Minnesota's FO is still there and there the one's that offered it. You think Kokinis doesnt no what Minnesota offered the previous regime.While he might know what was offered, *knowing* and *caring* are two entirely different things.
Quinn MIGHT have been worth two first rounders to Minnesota. That was last year. It appears his worth is much less at the present, which is all that matters. It doesn't matter that your house was 'worth' $500,000 last year. This year, someone will only give you $300,000 making that it's value.
Kokinis and Mangini have no loyalties to any of these players. IF they can get what they fell is fair value that will help the team more than keeping the player, they will do it. It doesn't matter what may or may not have been offered in the past.
While he might know what was offered, *knowing* and *caring* are two entirely different things.
Quinn MIGHT have been worth two first rounders to Minnesota. That was last year. It appears his worth is much less at the present, which is all that matters. It doesn't matter that your house was 'worth' $500,000 last year. This year, someone will only give you $300,000 making that it's value.
Kokinis and Mangini have no loyalties to any of these players. IF they can get what they fell is fair value that will help the team more than keeping the player, they will do it. It doesn't matter what may or may not have been offered in the past.
It was like 4-5 months ago
If you have a house thats was worth 500,000 last year and your only getting 300,000 dollar offers this year you'd be a complete idiot to sell it. But I dont think thats a very good comparison.
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