NOW...the trade is done....
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I'll take Watkins, Mack, Mosley, Martin, Beckham, Evans, or just about anyone over Justin Gilbert.
We got anal fucked on that trade like we did in 2012. Those trades are meaningless if you squander them.
I'll take Watkins, Mack, Mosley, Martin, Beckham, Evans, or just about anyone over Justin Gilbert.
We got anal fucked on that trade like we did in 2012. Those trades are meaningless if you squander them.
hilarious.
i think by the end of the year you'll have changed your mind.
oh and btw, it's funny how you omit others you had on your love list from last year's draft including manziel and borland.
one can't play and another quit.
as a matter of fact i'll wager our picks (4 mentioned above) will work out better as a whole for the browns than the other teams drafts work out for them.
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Shaw just so intrigues Me.. And yes.. I have always believed Our QB would come in an obscure way.. And it still feels like that to me...
Now that you mention it like that....Kosar kind of came to us in an obscure way too.....considering "he" manipulated his draft status so he could play for the Browns.
If he hadn't chosen the Browns, then the Browns never could have chosen him....
So, the reality is that Otto Graham is the only 1st round QB we've ever chosen in the regular draft that actually worked out....
Now that you mention it like that....Kosar kind of came to us in an obscure way too.....considering "he" manipulated his draft status so he could play for the Browns.
If he hadn't chosen the Browns, then the Browns never could have chosen him....
So, the reality is that Otto Graham is the only 1st round QB we've ever chosen in the regular draft that actually worked out....
Exactly! And what specifically expedited Bernie's success? 2 RBs that gained over 1000 yards apiece plus a HOF TE = playoffs in Miami as a rookie QB. We had a 20-3 halftime lead over Miami back when Shula was the Head of the Rules Committee. In the 2nd half, we were still imposing our will on the ground - but there were a lot of flags that smelled fishier than Miami's mascot. Apparent first downs conversions were suddenly turning into 3rd and long scenarios that serial killed a few 2nd half drives...
In 1986, Lindy Infante was hired to be our OC. His priority was to change the number handoffs into more short passes to RBs. Therefore, our RBs combined for 123 receptions with 3rd down RB Herman Fontenot leading us with 47. While Shanny liked the ole fashioned quick pitches and laterals (that were proned to sloppiness/fumbles) - Infante preferred the swing passes/wheel routes to bury defenses drooling to blitz his Qb with 125 lb pound cleats. He was busting undisciplined zone transitions all over the league; and spreading out teams horizontally. And don't forget, Ozzie was a former All American WR that could still line up and exploit a defense like a WR better than he could probably ever block or help set an edge as a TE.
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Now that you mention it like that....Kosar kind of came to us in an obscure way too.....considering "he" manipulated his draft status so he could play for the Browns.
If he hadn't chosen the Browns, then the Browns never could have chosen him....
So, the reality is that Otto Graham is the only 1st round QB we've ever chosen in the regular draft that actually worked out....
Exactly! And what specifically expedited Bernie's success? 2 RBs that gained over 1000 yards apiece plus a HOF TE = playoffs in Miami as a rookie QB. We had a 20-3 halftime lead over Miami back when Shula was the Head of the Rules Committee. In the 2nd half, we were still imposing our will on the ground - but there were a lot of flags that smelled fishier than Miami's mascot. Apparent first downs conversions were suddenly turning into 3rd and long scenarios that serial killed a few 2nd half drives...
In 1986, Lindy Infante was hired to be our OC. His priority was to change the number handoffs into more short passes to RBs. Therefore, our RBs combined for 123 receptions with 3rd down RB Herman Fontenot leading us with 47. While Shanny liked the ole fashioned quick pitches and laterals (that were proned to sloppiness/fumbles) - Infante preferred the swing passes/wheel routes to bury defenses drooling to blitz his Qb with 125 lb pound cleats. He was busting undisciplined zone transitions all over the league; and spreading out teams horizontally. And don't forget, Ozzie was a former All American WR that could still line up and exploit a defense like a WR better than he could probably ever block or help set an edge as a TE.
Exactly! And what specifically expedited Bernie's success? 2 RBs that gained over 1000 yards apiece ....
And lest we forget that floating in the wake of our Heisman bust Charlie White, one of those backs you just mentioned was an obscure late round(9th-10th?) pick by the name of Ernest Byner....no fan fare for him.....but he sure gave us AND the Redskins HOF type football.....his partner in crime was another supplemental pick too....Kevin Mack......(and Minnefield and Johnson too)
realizing just how many of our greatest players came from somewhere other than the first round......
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Sammy Watkins now with a bad Hip in football, I just hope the kid can show his talent he had at Clemson..(Except on us of course)
Sammy Watkins now with a bad Hip in football, I just hope the kid can show his talent he had at Clemson.
I wish him nothing but the best with that hip. He had the surgery in early Feb, so by all accounts should be 100% full go right now(8 weeks on a minor tear, which is what they said he had).....Though, Im hearing they are holding him out of practice and ota's......say its a precautionary measure...so I hope for his sake THAT is true and there isnt still a problem.....
Sadly....if he has a recurrence this year, it easily could spell an early end for him....which would be very unfortunate.....indeed
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At least we got to the bottom of how many QBs we drafted in round 1 (outside of the supplemental draft) ever got us into a Conference Championship Game or equaled Brian Sipe's ability to preform like a League MVP here.
Joe Montana's arm wasn't a first round QB that won 4 SBs
Kurt Warner wasn't drafted before appearing in 3 Superbowls on 2 different teams
Tom Brady was a 6th round pick that played in 6 SBs
Russell Wilson, not to be confused with #2 overall pick RG3, has already appeared in 2 SBs
Joe Theisman, who began in the CFL before cracking in as a punt returner in the NFL, appeared in at least 2 Superbowls
Bart Starr was a 17th round draft pick before frequenting Championships and Superbowls.
Fran Tarkenton played in 3 Superbowls and 9 Pro Bowls as a 3rd round NFL draft pick (also a 5th round AFL draft pick)
Superbowl Champions Qbs like Favre, Brees, Rypien, Hostetler and Brad Johnson weren't 1st round Qbs either.
The thing we always need to remember is that inclement weather benched many a playoff hopes of Dan Marino, Dan Fouts (in Cincy) and Brian Sipe. As far above the QB performance barometer as Peyton Manning has always been - he's got the same number of Superbowl Championships as Trent Dilfer received by accident. And Manning played the majority of his career in a climate controlled dome with no wind, ice, rain or anything that makes the field surface or football slippery.
Our previous front offices have had the following QBs on their doorstep:
1) Donovan McNabb but chose between Akili Smith and Tim Couch
2) Kurt Warner in the expansion draft but chose Scot Milanovich with gambling on his resume
3) Tom Brady but apparently the completion percentages of Spergon Wynn found cupid's arrow
4) Ben Roethlisberger instead of trading up for Winslow
5) Aaron Rodgers instead Braylon Barfights Edwards at #3 overall (possibly via trading back and adding picks)
6) Russell Wilson instead Brandon Weeden (and it could have been in round 2 or possibly 3)
7) Nick Foles instead of Weeden (and it could have been later than where we could have landed Wilson)
We as fans can get this stuff wrong; but we've been counting on some short sighted research in our front office for quite some time now. Had a Browns fan buddy whom I respect a great deal tell me that Tarkenton couldn't start in this era. I told him he would have been a lot better than Christian Ponder the year AP carried Minnesota on his back into the playoffs. Then I asked him, which season in Cleveland since 1999 would any of the QBs we've brought here started over Tarkenton?
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Cleveland definitely got the best of that transaction.
Gilbert had a bad first 2,3 games last year - and after that was good. And he's been money in OTA's. He'll be great this year.
Erving and Campbell are rookies, we'll see how they respond - but they've been good so far.
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I don't think it is even a question that Watkins is much better than Gilbert at this point in time. Bacon
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Well, great college wr vs great college db - the db has a harder job in the nfl, and Watkins had a
rib injury in preseason, then reinjured it.....
The Browns needed to be a complete team, this last draft did that. Okay, except they don't have a superstar
qb...whatever. I don't see Buffalo as being a far better team after the trade
It's just a far greater impact on the Browns, than Buffalo, and it's early.
I don't think it is even a question that Watkins is much better than Gilbert at this point in time. Bacon
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Well, great college wr vs great college db - the db has a harder job in the nfl, and Watkins had a
rib injury in preseason, then reinjured it.....
The Browns needed to be a complete team, this last draft did that. Okay, except they don't have a superstar
qb...whatever. I don't see Buffalo as being a far better team after the trade
It's just a far greater impact on the Browns, than Buffalo, and it's early.
Watkins 65 Rec 982 Yards 15.1 YPC 6 TDs vs Gilbert that wasn't even trusted to play and 2 draft choices. So it's a very solid #1 NFL WR vs a DB that the coaches hope grows up enough to be a starter and two unknowns, but I guess this is the Browns board so yes it appears the Browns won.
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Well we will see. You guys have your opinions, and I have mine I guess. There is an awful lot of Hopes associated with the Browns, but Erving may actually make the trade worth it, but we will see. The sad part is revisionist history will come up next year when I bring up this thread if you are wrong.
I will still take the wildly productive rookie wideout over a bust, and players whom haven't even played a down for us. But I hope Gilbert and friends do make this worth it.
My question is this, when Gilbert failes miserably again, and ibrahiem does what all 4th rounders do, nothing, but Erving turns out to be good, and Watkins is good who wins?
Has to still be Buffalo because we had 3 chances to land great players, and only got 1 good one, the same thing they got in their single pick. The point of trading picks is to land more "good" players. So even if 1 of them turns out to be good, Buffalo still wins because they batted 1.000 for their picks, and we batted .333 for ours.
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I don't think it is even a question that Watkins is much better than Gilbert at this point in time. Bacon
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Well, great college wr vs great college db - the db has a harder job in the nfl, and Watkins had a
rib injury in preseason, then reinjured it.....
The Browns needed to be a complete team, this last draft did that. Okay, except they don't have a superstar
qb...whatever. I don't see Buffalo as being a far better team after the trade
It's just a far greater impact on the Browns, than Buffalo, and it's early.
Watkins 65 Rec 982 Yards 15.1 YPC 6 TDs vs Gilbert that wasn't even trusted to play and 2 draft choices. So it's a very solid #1 NFL WR vs a DB that the coaches hope grows up enough to be a starter and two unknowns, but I guess this is the Browns board so yes it appears the Browns won.
Watkins 65 Rec 982 Yards 15.1 YPC 6 TDs vs Gilbert that wasn't even trusted to play and 2 draft choices. So it's a very solid #1 NFL WR vs a DB that the coaches hope grows up enough to be a starter and two unknowns, but I guess this is the Browns board so yes it appears the Browns won.
This has been a hot topic with several of them. They weigh and measure based on names, not production. They are putting a ton of weight on guys who haven't played a snap in this league, and a DB that was so demoted he was benched behind a undrafted ROOKIE free agent. But in their view that means he is good. I would recommend just ignoring them and waiting till next year. The Browns board is known to be full of kool-aid drinkers and blind optimism. Realism isn't considered here.
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Its a shame we were having such a good quality discussion....from both sides .....2 pages and not one asshole comment the whole time....
Everyone has been able to simply state their side and move on without having personal issue with the other guys opinion....almost completely like growns up....
Then CB shows and starts slinging arrows....for zero reason......so, thanks for that....
Too bad.....we had a great convo going too.....
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